rpiguy
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:31 pm

People, you need to understand basic economics.

Say ~200000 people are willing to buy a Pi for $35 + shipping.

Say ~1000 people are willing to buy a Pi for $200 + shipping.

Say there are 10,000 people with their hands on Pi's, and 10% of them (1000 people) are willing to sell theirs online.

Then they will be sold on secondary markets like eBay or Amazon Marketplace or Craigslist or whatever, and buyers will keep on bidding the price up and forcing other buyers with lower cutoff prices out, until all but 1000 buyers are priced out of the market.  With these example numbers, the price point where that happens is $200.

There's nothing illegal or immoral about that; it's capitalism's way of allocating limited resources to those who can make the most economically productive use of them.

Selling these on auction sites was inevitable once they were released.  Closing prices substantially above the nominal $35 price was inevitable given the enormous imbalance between supply and demand at that price point.

I personally think the past delays, and the current lack of information about batch sizes / ship times of later production runs, have made the problem worse.  It's difficult for buyers to believe anything the Foundation / distributors say about delivery dates at this point.  (And the fact that Newark's order status page is still telling US buyers "August" doesn't help matters.)  So while I'm sure eBay closing prices will fall to near the $35 nominal price when the distributors' backlog is cleared, many buyers are willing to pay not to have to deal with the time lag and uncertainty around when that will happen.

As for the giving of the Pi's as gifts to students at this point in time -- I don't really understand the rationale behind that -- I thought the first batch was for developers, and the plan was to give the schoolkids a product with a more mature software ecosystem and a case in the fall.

And I can certainly understand the seller's point of view; even though I would have loved to have one of these as a kid, if I'd been given one I would have certainly flipped it on eBay at these prices and bought a new one for $35 six months later.  GBP 175 is a lot of money, especially to a kid.

Heck, I'm not a kid anymore but I still might sell mine if they're still selling for this much when mine arrives!

rpiguy
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:54 pm

We should celebrate these auctions as a huge validation of the entire concept.

People want this device.  They want it so bad that some of them are willing to pay several times the sticker price for it.

How can this level of enthusiasm be a bad thing?

Also, keep in mind that this will be a temporary state of affairs.  As I alluded to in my previous post in this thread -- A year from now, when anyone who has a Pi can get one in a week from Newark for $35, I'm sure the closing prices on eBay auctions will also be near $35 -- and the auction that is posted and actually closes above that is either some kind of extremely rare aberration (e.g. buyer and seller are both insane) or else there's some kind of product differentiation to justify the additional price (e.g. it's actually an auction for an entire Bramble, the Pi being sold has some unusual historical significance or hardware modifications, etc.)

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abishur
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:18 pm

Fortunately for the kids who choose to sell their pi, there are kids who choose to keep it

Though it certainly sad that they choose to get rid of it, it's his/her's to do with as they please and computers really aren't everyone's cup of tea.  At least they're selling it instead of throwing it in the garbage bin!

And while this last part probably goes without say, please do not send the eBay seller any mean or unkind messages.  We'll get our Pis soon enough
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Vindicator
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:50 pm

The bid has ended so I wonder if someone bought it outright or if they got a case of conscience, more likely the former than the later.

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBa.....1003305178

Looks like it is still for sale and has a reserve on it now though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/e.....1003305178

So I am guessing they got even greedier and placed a reserve on this item.

Here is another one already up for sale while many of us who did not have a chance are still waiting.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rasp.....4d004b68b8
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bwoodbury
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:58 am

The two top links above are dead now bottom link still active. But a new one is now up

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/rasp.....3a73344a2a

I see that it also doesn't have the yellow port although the seller says "This is part of the first batch that works – released wed 11th april"

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Vindicator
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:40 am

That looks like a picture of the Beta's to me look at the SD card bracket extending out the bottom.
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Montala
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:56 am

As you say, it is interesting that none of the sellers are posting a photo of the actual board they are selling!

I wonder if some of them might only have received a despatch note so far?

JohnW
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:23 am

rpiguy said:


People, you need to understand basic economics.

...

As for the giving of the Pi's as gifts to students at this point in time -- I don't really understand the rationale behind that -- I thought the first batch was for developers, and the plan was to give the schoolkids a product with a more mature software ecosystem and a case in the fall.


I doubt anybody is having any difficulty understanding the economics of the ebay auctions, just saying it is a shame that kids who have been given a Pi as an educational tool chose to cash in on them.

Just because that is the way a capitalist system works doesn't mean that it is ideal from a moral point of view. I remember some work colleagues doing a tour of every game shop they could find pre-ordering PS2s, which they then sold on at a big profit to desperate parents in the run up to Christmas. Whether you see that as exploitation or good business is a matter of opinion, but that is the way the world works. (Capitalism is the worst economic system, apart from all the other ones)

I assume the rationale between giving them away is simply promoting the long term goals of the foundation. The aim is for it to be used by school kids who want to learn about computing - so I guess giving them away gets the whole project national media coverage. Somehow I doubt that handing them over to a roomfull of bearded men in sandals (figuratively speaking - I am not bearded and don't own any sandals), plus a few people looking for a cheap media centre, would have made the news.

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exartemarte
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:49 am

JohnW said:


I remember some work colleagues doing a tour of every game shop they could find pre-ordering PS2s, which they then sold on at a big profit to desperate parents in the run up to Christmas. Whether you see that as exploitation or good business is a matter of opinion ...


I see it as a particularly mean-spirited exploitation - the act of an unprincipled spiv.

The action of a schoolchild disposing of an unwanted gift is quite different, particularly if the kit ends up in the hands of a developer who is desperate for one and is happy to pay over the odds to jump the queue.

Giving them to schoolchildren seems to me to be not only useful for publicity purposes but also in keeping with the philosophy of the project. It would be disappointing if most of those given away were sold on, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.

JohnW
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:10 am

exartemarte said:


I see it as a particularly mean-spirited exploitation - the act of an unprincipled spiv.

The action of a schoolchild disposing of an unwanted gift is quite different, particularly if the kit ends up in the hands of a developer who is desperate for one and is happy to pay over the odds to jump the queue.


I agree, but it is still a matter of perspective - no doubt some of the Pi on ebay will be from people who managed to get their order in at 6am, with a view to making a few quid.

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exartemarte
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:16 am

JohnW said:


exartemarte said:


I see it as a particularly mean-spirited exploitation - the act of an unprincipled spiv.

The action of a schoolchild disposing of an unwanted gift is quite different, particularly if the kit ends up in the hands of a developer who is desperate for one and is happy to pay over the odds to jump the queue.


I agree, but it is still a matter of perspective - no doubt some of the Pi on ebay will be from people who managed to get their order in at 6am, with a view to making a few quid.


Indeed. I don't have a problem with buying and selling, just with the calculated exploitation of children and their parents at Christmas.

Doody
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:16 am

If the sellers have the product why aren"t there any photos of it - just web pics???!!! My question is do they really have one? (I know eBay rules say they have to but....)

hippy
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:36 pm

Montala said:


As you say, it is interesting that none of the sellers are posting a photo of the actual board they are selling!


Only to be expected really; it's much easier to pull a good quality image from the web and re-use that than go to the effort of taking one's own photo. Farnell's image for the R-Pi they will be selling is of a beta board and most images on the web are.

JohnW
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Re: one for sale on Ebay this is wrong as the foundation is loosing out here.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:17 pm

exartemarte said:


Indeed. I don't have a problem with buying and selling, just with the calculated exploitation of children and their parents at Christmas.


What about the calculated exploitation of geeks?

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