louisb
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:08 am

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:49 pm

I was just wondering if Liz is going to be sticking the 2000 CE stickers on the boards and how long it will take her. Someone else can do all the maths and work out a time estimate.

Seriously thought the post says there is no _hardware_ change required implying that there is a software changed since the first failed attempt at CE testing.

What software is needed to be updated? Is it in the binary GPU firmware that forms part of the SD boot image? Has this binary GPU firmware been updated on any of the download sites? Or is it some internal  device firmware that needs to be updated using a JTAG device programmer before the board is shipped?

Also any news about the following 8000? Are they in the UK?

And how about the following batches, how are they progressing? Do you think that RS and Farnell were waiting for the CE test to pass before placing a firm order for the next batch? I suppose we we find out once the first 10,000 have been shipped.

I suppose we can tell by the chocolate finger prints if Liz has been putting the stickers on the boards over Easter.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26842
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:03 pm

The HDMI drive strength needed to be reduced (it was being overdriven anyway). This is a software change in the blob I believe. I don't think the new blob has been released yet. Waiting on a new Debian at the same time I think. I've been away for 5 days, so maybe its all been released by now anyway!
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

User avatar
mkopack
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:04 pm

Actually, I believe they can just put them on the boxes themselves (for at least these first 10,000).

I can't imagine it'd take more than an hour or so to do that. Actually, it probably will be Farnell/RS that will do that as they ship them out....

The hold up right now is waiting for the paperwork to be finished up, give to and looked over by RS+Farnell. Once that's done, boards *SHOULD* start flowing.

User avatar
Tass
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:15 am

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:07 pm

louisb said:


I was just wondering if Liz is going to be sticking the 2000 CE stickers on the boards and how long it will take her. Someone else can do all the maths and work out a time estimate.


She's going to send me a few to help with the sticking

Also any news about the following 8000? Are they in the UK?
A comment Eben made on the main post about the first 2K indicated that they'd be about 2-3 weeks behind the 1st batch - i.e. next week (just my calculations - nothing official)


And how about the following batches, how are they progressing? Do you think that RS and Farnell were waiting for the CE test to pass before placing a firm order for the next batch?


Yes, I believe the put everything on hold until the testing was sucessfully completed, but were stockpiling components so should be ready to go now.

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:32 pm

They're making more now - I know the size of the batches, but I don't think I'm allowed to tell you how many are in them yet. I will say that they are BIG. Really big. Both companies are very keen to clear their backlogs as soon as they possibly can.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

User avatar
SN
Posts: 1014
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:06 pm
Location: Romiley, UK
Contact: Website

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:44 pm

Oo oo arm waving excitement!!!! You mean there are now MORE than 10,000 production raspis in existance? ? ?
Steve N – binatone mk4->intellivision->zx81->spectrum->cbm64->cpc6128->520stfm->pc->raspi ?

User avatar
mkopack
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:58 pm

liz said:


They're making more now - I know the size of the batches, but I don't think I'm allowed to tell you how many are in them yet. I will say that they are BIG. Really big. Both companies are very keen to clear their backlogs as soon as they possibly can.



I hope you're right! I've got a standing bet on who will deliver first- Raspberry Pi getting a board to me, or SpaceX's Dragon capsule to the International Space Station... I thought ya'll would win by a mile but it's getting down to the wire now!

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13218
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:03 pm

liz said:


They're making more now - I know the size of the batches, but I don't think I'm allowed to tell you how many are in them yet. I will say that they are BIG. Really big. Both companies are very keen to clear their backlogs as soon as they possibly can.


Am I right in assuming these new batches will have the small patch that is needed to pass Class B certification?

mole125
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:06 pm

My understanding is that it's not the board which actually has the patch but instead the GPU blob which is stored on the memory card - this does have the interesting impact that anybody who has already downloaded the disk image will need to recreated it (once released) if they want their board to be CE compliant.

User avatar
abishur
Posts: 4477
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:07 pm

mahjongg said:


liz said:


They're making more now - I know the size of the batches, but I don't think I'm allowed to tell you how many are in them yet. I will say that they are BIG. Really big. Both companies are very keen to clear their backlogs as soon as they possibly can.


Am I right in assuming these new batches will have the small patch that is needed to pass Class B certification?



My *guess* is no.  A PCB revision will take time and there will have to be a test batch done (just like there was with this board revision).  Additionally, any PCB changes means that it no longer passes certification.  If they did the PCB revision now, they would be at square one for CE testing and we'd have to wait even longer.  These boards are going to have a little disclaimer in them similar to what you find with the Arduino or Beagleboards saying it's only class A.
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

User avatar
abishur
Posts: 4477
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:14 pm

mole125 said:


My understanding is that it's not the board which actually has the patch but instead the GPU blob which is stored on the memory card - this does have the interesting impact that anybody who has already downloaded the disk image will need to recreated it (once released) if they want their board to be CE compliant.



An interesting point   But it's important to make a distinction here as there are two separate issues that are being blurred together

1) Class A CE/FCC/Ctick/etc - This is the one that was solved by an update for the HDMI port.  It was being over driven and as a result putting out too much interference.  An update to the blob (which from what they've been saying will be released with the next Debian release) solved this issue such that the R-Pi's passed Class A testing with flying colors

2) Class B testing - There was some questions going on about whether or not it would be necessary to have a shielded case to pass this more stringent requirement.  The answer, as it turns out, is no, but there will have to be a minor revision to the board itself to pass class B

The good news is that the distributors have already agreed that Class B is *not* necessary to begin shipping the board (thank goodness!) It will be required for the educational release that will (speculation alert-> ) come out later this year? They will include a little notice like what we see with Arduino/Beagleboard and everything will be a-okay!
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13218
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:16 pm

Abishur said:


My *guess* is no.  A PCB revision will take time and there will have to be a test batch done (just like there was with this board revision).


No worries . I assume that after the backlog is cleared, there will be time to do the minor change, (and EMC retests) so that the "educational model" will have these patches. It would be a shame if it would be necessary to drop the idea of making the educational model in a transparent case, because the case must act as a shield (with dubious outcome also, as shielding often isn't the "magic bullet" that everybody seems to assume).

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4249
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:41 pm

Liz wouldn't be doing the sticking anyway. she has a minion with no fur & opposable thumbs now

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13218
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:47 pm

ukscone said:


Liz wouldn't be doing the sticking anyway. she has a minion with no fur & opposable thumbs now


Probably (many) more than one.

ceteras
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Romania

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:21 am

liz said:


They're making more now - I know the size of the batches, but I don't think I'm allowed to tell you how many are in them yet. I will say that they are BIG. Really big. Both companies are very keen to clear their backlogs as soon as they possibly can.



This is great news to me, thank you! I don't know what's with the secrecy, but I guess the fact itself that production on the next batch has started would be a nice thing for many to know and a subject for a short little blog update .

Can they now add the CE logo to the silkscreen? Perhaps someone from the Raspberry foundation has to provide them with the new artwork so this should be known too. And I hope that a such small change to the pcb design would not require testing it again.

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4257
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:39 am

Only an idiot doesn't test. The silkscreen is part of the Gerber file which includes all the PCB tracks. It is possible (although extremely unlikely) that a change has been made to a track or the wrong file is sent.

But it should not hold up anything, and it wont require CE testing.

ceteras
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Romania

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:20 am

rurwin said:


Only an idiot doesn't test. The silkscreen is part of the Gerber file which includes all the PCB tracks. It is possible (although extremely unlikely) that a change has been made to a track or the wrong file is sent.

But it should not hold up anything, and it wont require CE testing.



The Gerber files are each for its own layer, so it's easy to see if no trace was changed in the copper layers of a new version of the board.

User avatar
Tass
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:15 am

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:29 am

ceteras said:


rurwin said:


Only an idiot doesn't test. The silkscreen is part of the Gerber file which includes all the PCB tracks. It is possible (although extremely unlikely) that a change has been made to a track or the wrong file is sent.

But it should not hold up anything, and it wont require CE testing.


The Gerber files are each for its own layer, so it's easy to see if no trace was changed in the copper layers of a new version of the board.


It probably is easy to see, but if you're about to produce half a million Raspberry Pi would you go ahead on the assumption that it "looks like nothing's changed", or would you build a few boards, test, then kick everything off?

ceteras
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Romania

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:55 am

Tass said:


ceteras said:


rurwin said:


Only an idiot doesn't test. The silkscreen is part of the Gerber file which includes all the PCB tracks. It is possible (although extremely unlikely) that a change has been made to a track or the wrong file is sent.

But it should not hold up anything, and it wont require CE testing.


The Gerber files are each for its own layer, so it's easy to see if no trace was changed in the copper layers of a new version of the board.


It probably is easy to see, but if you're about to produce half a million Raspberry Pi would you go ahead on the assumption that it "looks like nothing's changed", or would you build a few boards, test, then kick everything off?


Well, they said after the initial tests were passed, production of a new batch can start, and these will have the silk-screened logo. It makes no sense to test again.

A binary file compare and a signature (or more if needed) should be enough.

We are speculating here, and this makes no sense either. Actually I only hunt for any and all clues about the second production batch, as I'm sure mine is not from the first. I just want my Pi .

User avatar
Tass
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:15 am

Re: How long do you think Liz will take to stick 2000 CE stickers on the boards?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:03 am

ceteras said:


We are speculating here, and this makes no sense either.


You're right - all just wild speculation here.  It's their risk I suppose, so whatever they feel comfortable with.

Return to “General discussion”