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pluggy
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 10:11 am

Doing a lot of reading between the lines I would suspect the availability of another SOC to make a new version would depend on the relationship between the Eben Upton and Broadcom and whether a new version would be overstepping the aims of the foundation. Eben didn't bring the Pi into being for geeks to run big applications, its for kids to learn programming and encourage them to follow technology as a career path. The education system has done a good job, of turning kids off technology the foundations aims are to reverse that. Something that sounds like the spec of a low-end laptop would probably wind up as shooting yourself in the foot.
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Joe Schmoe
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 10:21 am

Why not 128 bit?

Or 256?

Or ...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

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timmoore46
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 10:24 am

Heater wrote:I would like to plant the seed of an idea.

The next ARM board from the Foundation should be a 64 bit machine.

My reasoning for this goes as follows:

1) There is a lot of clamouring for a new Pi with more speed more cores more memory more bells and whistles etc etc. Frankly this is pointless, no matter what current ARM you move to it's not going to get you earth shattering gains. Not enough to justify all the effort that would be required to design and build it. The cost would go up. There are plenty of other guys out there with bigger faster ARM boards if you want one. There will be more appearing I'm sure. That market will be saturated. Besides it is not the remit of the foundation to build cheap toys and video players for you. They are an educational set up who would rather work on their educational materials and have a stable platform, the Pi, to base it on.

2) Having said that. The Pi is somewhat inspired by the BBC Micro. Which you will remember had an 8 bit 6502 CPU and was built by ACORN. The next big thing to come from ACORN skipped any upgrades in the 8 bit world, skipped the 16 bit world. No they went straight to 32 bits, designed their own CPU, the ARM, and produced the Archimedes. Well, that was pretty damn audacious.

So following historical precedent. The Foundation should skip any little incremental improvements and go for the big one. Be the first cheap 64 bit ARM board.

No hurry.

Well said, but always it was a huge error not to have enough address pins available ! Did it kill the PDP11 ?

I think the RPi design team are professionals who fully understand all of this and left alone will come up with a cracker for a next few step forward, like add A/D converters to the pcb. I'd be happy with that !

As the biggest ever error is not to remain software compatible with all earlier models. As history has shown , time and time and time again....

:D :D :D

Tim
Last edited by timmoore46 on Mon May 27, 2013 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 10:26 am

pluggy wrote: The education system has done a good job, of turning kids off technology the foundations aims are to reverse that.
I'm curious why you say that. Not that I disagree in the slightest.

But in what way is that true? Please do say more.
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan ...
Also from the same source:
“We've arranged a global civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 10:48 am

Joe Schmoe wrote:
pluggy wrote: The education system has done a good job, of turning kids off technology the foundations aims are to reverse that.
I'm curious why you say that. Not that I disagree in the slightest.

But in what way is that true? Please do say more.
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan ...
Also from the same source:
“We've arranged a global civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”
In one of my earlier lives (the lions share of my working career as it happens) I was network manager and IT technician for a school. Our team maintained a network of 400 computers which was largely used for writing M$ Word and Excel documents. When the school had IT lessons it centred on teaching kids on how to use propitiatory software to create something that would wind up printed out on a piece of paper. We didn't have computers when I was at school, I got into them in my early twenties, before education had caught onto the revolution it started. Computers and IT lessons bored the pants off the kids, because they didn't do anything cool with them. The vast majority left without the slightest interest of following IT as a career, because it failed to inspire them when they were at school.

A few kids learnt more by hacking the network so they could do things they weren't allowed to ordinarily, they were troublemakers and were chastised for their efforts. The few that showed a spark, had it extinguished in detentions.......
Don't judge Linux by the Pi.......
I must not tread on too many sacred cows......

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 11:15 am

@timmoore46,
As the biggest ever error is not to remain software compatible with all earlier models.
I agree. As soon as you change one little detail you have caused a world of pain. A bigger
change like upgrading the ARM blows everything up. Confuses everyone. Fragments the support network. All in all it's not worth it.

If you are going to suffer all that upheaval better make it worth while in a big way for both the Foundation and the users.

@Joe Schmoe,
Why not 128 bit?
Good point. Even 256 bits is to small. We can only count to about 1.1e+77 with that
and the number of atoms in the known universe is between 10e+78 to 10e+82.

But seriously. The designers of ARM have recently come out with 64 bit ARM designs. They may start
to trickle out from manufacturers soon.

So in that way a 64 bit Pi is almost possible to imagine happening. 128 bit, not so much.
Last edited by Heater on Mon May 27, 2013 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 12:01 pm

Heater wrote:@timmoore46,
As the biggest ever error is not to remain software compatible with all earlier models.
I agree. As soon as you change one little detail you have caused a world of pain. A bigger
change like upgrading the ARM blows everything up. Confuses everyone. Fragments the support network. All in all it's not worth it.

If you are going to suffer all that upheaval better make it worth while in a big way for both the Foundation and the users.

@Joe Schmoe,
Why not 128 bit?
Good point. Even 256 bits is two small. We can only count to about 1.1e+77 with that
and the number of atoms in the known universe is between 10e+78 to 10e+82.

But seriously. The designers of ARM have recently come out with 64 bit ARM designs. They may start
to trickle out from manufacturers soon.

So in that way a 64 bit Pi is almost possible to imagine happening. 128 bit, not so much.
I don't think the 'world of pain' is quite as big as you might think. Armv6 codes run of v7, so a change to a multi core Armv7 would be fairly painless. The big issue I see is that people will write code that REQUIRES the extra oomph, so although it might run on v6, it won't be fast enough.
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 12:19 pm

jamesh,
I don't think the 'world of pain' is quite as big as you might think.
At some level it's not a worry. As long as I can get Debian up on a machine I'm happy.

At some other levels it's a pain. I have a few other ARM boards to play with here, they have different boot loaders, different kernel tweaks required, different graphics set ups, different GPIO, serial and other I/O arrangements and so on and so on.

As you know the forums are full of questions and discussion about all these little details that trip people up. How would it be if the Foundation launched a Cortex A8 machine like this http://www.isee.biz/products/processor- ... epv2-board tomorrow? All of a sudden we would have to go through all that again. All those materials that describe setting up this or that on a Pi might have to be updated. All those hardware projects might need tweaking.

Unless you know of a more drop in replacement SoC from Broadcom that would be more transparent?

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 12:35 pm

Heater wrote:jamesh,
I don't think the 'world of pain' is quite as big as you might think.
At some level it's not a worry. As long as I can get Debian up on a machine I'm happy.

At some other levels it's a pain. I have a few other ARM boards to play with here, they have different boot loaders, different kernel tweaks required, different graphics set ups, different GPIO, serial and other I/O arrangements and so on and so on.

As you know the forums are full of questions and discussion about all these little details that trip people up. How would it be if the Foundation launched a Cortex A8 machine like this http://www.isee.biz/products/processor- ... epv2-board tomorrow? All of a sudden we would have to go through all that again. All those materials that describe setting up this or that on a Pi might have to be updated. All those hardware projects might need tweaking.

Unless you know of a more drop in replacement SoC from Broadcom that would be more transparent?
The vast majority of Pi customers have no knowledge of bootloaders or firmware. And GPIO's can be abstracted to make them platform independent. As long as Linux looks the same there won't be a problem (or at least, just a tiny one). I agree that a certain amount of setting up information would change.

Why would HW projects need tweaking? Just use the old Pi!

This is just my personal thoughts of course, I have no knowledge of all the Foundation plans for the future.
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 12:56 pm

SimonSmall wrote:
a new version is forthcoming once the demand in the pi has died down to nothing
My guess is that neither prediction will happen :D
You think pi's will still be flying off the production line in 10 or 20 years time? Be one hell of a success story if that's the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any of the original greats (BBC, Commodore 64/Amiga, Spectrum, Amstrad) were in production for more than 10 years were they?

I think there will come a time within the decade when something smaller, cheaper, lighter and more powerful than the pi comes to market - making it the logical replacement. Whether it is the foundation that delivers it, or whether another team deliver it, who knows.

In fact, who really cares at this stage? Who (2 years ago) thought the pi was going to be the success story that it is turning out to be - lets enjoy it and work on getting the most out of it.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 1:44 pm

The only thing I hope for is 512MB model A. I hope the RAM price will go down to allow this and unify RAM on both models.

I still have the first 256MB B model and don't have any use for onboard LAN but definitely don't want to buy another 256MB model.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 4:39 pm

holmez wrote:Who (2 years ago) thought the pi was going to be the success story that it is turning out to be
Quite a lot of people saw the potential for a low cost, low power, capable SBC and correctly predicted the Foundation's estimates of potential sales to be well short of the mark. And that is purely for the geeks and makers, without the potential for educational uses added.

The demand was there but little to satisfy it. The choice before the R-Pi was to repurpose hardware to do the job ( routers, hubs, NAS's, digital picture frames, tablets, etc ), go the relatively expensive miniITX or picoITX route, or make do with a traditional PC.

The problem with repurposing hardware was that most of it was esoteric, rarely designed for the intended purpose, poorly documented if at all, with little help available for using or modifying it. Better documented and supported boards were more expensive, still rather niche, and did not always provide all that was desired. Despite the disadvantages of PC's, the pro's outweighed the con's, so they were a better and easier choice and that's what people resigned themselves to using while bemoaning lack of suitable alternatives.

The R-Pi addressed most of the failings of the alternatives so its potential was pretty obvious to anyone who understood that unfulfilled market. Others had looked at trying to fill that market's need but the Foundation's ability to get a suitable SoC so cheaply at low volume and not having to make a profit meant they could make it a huge success where others could not. Those who could have produced a comparable R-Pi at a comparable cost either chose not to, did not see the potential market size, or did not foresee enough profit to make it worthwhile.

The rather unique position the Foundation is in is probably why there are no same price, same capability alternatives to the R-Pi. If it were not for the Foundation though we would likely still be where we were two years ago.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Heater wrote:@timmoore46,
As the biggest ever error is not to remain software compatible with all earlier models.
I agree. As soon as you change one little detail you have caused a world of pain. A bigger
change like upgrading the ARM blows everything up. Confuses everyone. Fragments the support network. All in all it's not worth it.

If you are going to suffer all that upheaval better make it worth while in a big way for both the Foundation and the users.
The way to handle that is a clean break. Don't drop the production of the Pi (at least not until sales drop far enough that making and stocking them become uneconomic).

The first thing is the give the new board a new name. Purely to show the source of the boards, *part* of the existing name could be kept: either Raspberry or Pi. (I'd "vote" for keeping "Raspberry" in the name. I have quipped at least once that the next board would be named the "Raspberry Rho".)

At that point, emphasize that code written in a reasonably high level language (e.g. Python, though it would also apply to C and its variants) is portable to the new board (upward compatibility).

I would be less concerned about going to 64-bit than going to higher clock (1-2 GHz), somewhat more memory (1-2 GB) and adding some peripheral connections, such as line in audio and SATA. Whatever chip is chosen for this future board should be capable of multiple native USB ports and a native Ethernet port (that is, no LAN chip).
But seriously. The designers of ARM have recently come out with 64 bit ARM designs. They may start
to trickle out from manufacturers soon.
In order to hold the sort of price point the Pi is at, let alone actually holding the the Pis price, "trickling out" won't do it. You have to get to the point that the design costs have been amortized, yields are excellent, and the chips are very cheap to make. In short, you have to wait until the chip you're going to use is obsolete.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 7:18 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:Whatever chip is chosen for this future board should be capable of multiple native USB ports and a native Ethernet port (that is, no LAN chip).
Minor nitpick:

Virtually no devices (other than a handful of low end microcontrollers) have a complete Base-T ethernet interface built in. Afaict the process chracteristics needed to build the physical layer of an ethernet interface don't sit well with the process characteristics you want for a fast processor.

So there are basically two approaches to ethernet. One approach is to integrate the MAC in your SoC and then use a seperate PHY chip connected via some variant of MII. The other is to use an external MAC+PHY chip connected by some form of general purpose bus.

Neither approach is fundamentally better or worse performance wise. Performance depends on the quality of the MAC implementation and the bus (whether internal or external) connecting it to the rest of the SoC. For example the IMX6 has an onboard gigabit MAC but internal bus limitations prevent it from achiving full gigabit throughput.

Now of course a shared USB bus is FAR from the best way to connect an ethernet controller and I would hope that a successor to the Pi can avoid that. Having said that devices like the Pi are a game of compromise and as long as ethernet works doing it in a less than ideal way may be an acceptable tradeoff. The Pi and similar devices aren't really meant as servers.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 8:58 pm

plugwash wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:Whatever chip is chosen for this future board should be capable of multiple native USB ports and a native Ethernet port (that is, no LAN chip).
Minor nitpick:

Virtually no devices (other than a handful of low end microcontrollers) have a complete Base-T ethernet interface built in. Afaict the process chracteristics needed to build the physical layer of an ethernet interface don't sit well with the process characteristics you want for a fast processor.

So there are basically two approaches to ethernet. One approach is to integrate the MAC in your SoC and then use a seperate PHY chip connected via some variant of MII. The other is to use an external MAC+PHY chip connected by some form of general purpose bus.

Neither approach is fundamentally better or worse performance wise. Performance depends on the quality of the MAC implementation and the bus (whether internal or external) connecting it to the rest of the SoC. For example the IMX6 has an onboard gigabit MAC but internal bus limitations prevent it from achiving full gigabit throughput.

Now of course a shared USB bus is FAR from the best way to connect an ethernet controller and I would hope that a successor to the Pi can avoid that. Having said that devices like the Pi are a game of compromise and as long as ethernet works doing it in a less than ideal way may be an acceptable tradeoff. The Pi and similar devices aren't really meant as servers.
As you say, it's a game of compromise. It's all very saying I want this or that, but unless you can do it at the same price point as the Raspi currently sits at, it's a no go. And remember the core purpose of the Foundation. Education. And ethernet on USB, just as one example, is fine for that.
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 9:01 pm

The Pi is based on technology that is effectively "obsolete" only in terms of the leading edge of the market. Believe it or not, the Apple ][ series with its lowly 1 MHz 6502 8-bit microprocessor and 64 KBs (yes, with a K, as in 65,536 bytes) total address space was on the market for 16 years! There were variants later in the series that adopted the lower-power complimentary metal oxide semiconductor (CMOS) 65C02, but they could all run the same software going all the way back to Day 1 of the original Apple ][. A good chunk of them wound up in, guess where, yes, classrooms, because they satisfied educational needs and its longevity says volumes about the importance of having a stable platform.

Even a $25 Pi is a big expenditure for schools where the classrooms I teach STEM in were built when I was born ... in the mid-1950s! They have only been maintained to keep the roofs waterproof, replace failed heating (air conditioning? Fuhgeddaboudid!), had blackboards replaced by whiteboards (but not in all cases - some old-school teachers prefer, well, the old-school ways), and in some cases SmartBoard VGA computer projection and interaction systems were installed. The vast majority of capital expenditures in schools over the past 50 years has been surrounding them with fences, gates, and hardened classroom doors, sad to say. Textbooks have to last at least seven years as they cost an average of $70 each. Most schools in my district have a computer lab with about 40 Windows systems, but the 10-plus year old Macs they typically replaced are scavenged by computing-savvy folks like myself for use in our STEM classrooms (we now have about a dozen, whoop-dee-doo).

Taking a class of about 40 eighth graders to the lab is a behavioral/logistical nightmare, so teachers have to avoid it until troublemakers are inevitably out on suspensions. Some schools have laptops on carts that can be brought to classrooms, but, again, the troublemakers are just as likely to snap those in half, pry keytops off, or try to destroy the software on them as they are to do anything related to the lesson of the day. This is a result of the people with education degrees (who tend to gravitate to becoming higher-paid administrators as soon as they can) exercising their theories that mixing low-brows in with the civilized kids will improve the former, but all that typically happens is demoralizing the latter, and a degrading of the behavior of everyone in the worst cases.

Giving a Pi to each kid to keep who can actually get something out of it would be wonderful, but I'll settle for each of them having access to one Pi only during my classes. Right now, that means I have to buy them out of my pocket, because the IT bureaucracy wouldn't know how to spell Linux, much less support or willingly purchase systems based on it. I'm going to be spending the Summer trying to educate parents on the Pi via Jams and computing Summer camps in the hope that they will equip their kids with their own Pii.

If anything, as a STEM educator I would rather see the Pi features remain the same and the cost to decrease even more over time, than to add features that would increase the cost by even one penny. Price is the reason the Pi has been such a wild success, along with the myriad uses that can be made of it as-is. If they are going to do anything without increasing the price, it should be to fix the hardware glitch that prevents high-speed SD cards from being able to be used at their maximum performance, and doing whatever might be necessary to fully resolve the USB interference issue (if it hasn't been done already - I can't keep track of everything). I would also build in at least one A/D-D/A port (integrating a low-end Arduino would be ideal), but only if it doesn't cause the price to go up. If the Foundation can sell a Model C with enhanced features at a price higher than the Model B that would allow the price of the Model A to be offset to an even lower amount, that would be worthwhile, but I doubt that would work out economically.

I realize this is all heresy to the bigger/faster crowd that has no clue as to what reality in classrooms is these days, but perhaps this has made the situation a bit less opaque to at least a few people.
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 9:46 pm

Indeed, The Current Pi has a very long life, Creativity is what's going to keep it fresh. To keep things in perspective and for some of the younger coders that may be reading. Nintendo has never been cutting edge. They use a lot of older processors that Programmers already know how to use. Good Software is what makes a device truly great. Makes me wonder if D. Scott Williamson has a Pi.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 10:27 pm

[quote="hippy"][/quote]

Thank you for the excellent response, I had no idea that it filled a huge gap in the market. I only got interested when it was featured on the news just before its launch, and decided to get one to see what I could do with it.

I also had no idea about the other types of boards, such as Ardiuno, but have since got myself a picaxe starter kit and had a tinker at microchip programming.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 10:37 pm

Jim Manley wrote:Taking a class of about 40 eighth graders to the lab is a behavioral/logistical nightmare, so teachers have to avoid it until troublemakers are inevitably out on suspensions. Some schools have laptops on carts that can be brought to classrooms, but, again, the troublemakers are just as likely to snap those in half, pry keytops off, or try to destroy the software on them as they are to do anything related to the lesson of the day. This is a result of the people with education degrees (who tend to gravitate to becoming higher-paid administrators as soon as they can) exercising their theories that mixing low-brows in with the civilized kids will improve the former, but all that typically happens is demoralizing the latter, and a degrading of the behavior of everyone in the worst cases.

Giving a Pi to each kid to keep who can actually get something out of it would be wonderful, but I'll settle for each of them having access to one Pi only during my classes. Right now, that means I have to buy them out of my pocket, because the IT bureaucracy wouldn't know how to spell Linux, much less support or willingly purchase systems based on it. I'm going to be spending the Summer trying to educate parents on the Pi via Jams and computing Summer camps in the hope that they will equip their kids with their own Pii.
Thank you for an excellent post. I think I know what you mean about some of the kids these days, makes me so glad that I cut my teaching teeth in an independent school, and am now in post 16 education. I think I have encountered the sort of kids you refer to through supply teaching, but I think you'd still be able to amaze me with some of your classroom stories.

We (college) have purchased a handful to use in a programming the pi activity, and hopefully it will lead to some of the students getting their own pi and experimenting with it.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 11:24 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:In order to hold the sort of price point the Pi is at, let alone actually holding the the Pis price, "trickling out" won't do it. You have to get to the point that the design costs have been amortized, yields are excellent, and the chips are very cheap to make. In short, you have to wait until the chip you're going to use is obsolete.
IMO the appropriate word is mature. A mature chip has amortized the design costs, but can still be manufactured using available silicon fabrication processes so making them is quite profitable as long as there's a market.

An obsolete chip is generally one that nobody wants to manufacture any more, such as a 256 Kbit DRAM and many programmable logic devices. If you can find them at all, they're expensive. Product designs that have long lifetimes often have to face what to do when the chips they use become obsolete (AKA past end of life) and can't be purchased any more.

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Tue May 28, 2013 1:20 am

Joe Schmoe wrote:
pluggy wrote: The education system has done a good job, of turning kids off technology the foundations aims are to reverse that.
I'm curious why you say that. Not that I disagree in the slightest.
Had a school a pile of money...enough to build EITHER an new set of science/tech labs OR a new sports facility. Which one do you think they'll opt to build?

(The only time in school that I saw the administration pay the slightest bit of favorable attention to the "geeks" or "nerds" was in the wake of Sputnik I...and then only because Sputnik I scared the bejeebers out of the American public.)

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Tue May 28, 2013 1:24 am

johnbeetem wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:In order to hold the sort of price point the Pi is at, let alone actually holding the the Pis price, "trickling out" won't do it. You have to get to the point that the design costs have been amortized, yields are excellent, and the chips are very cheap to make. In short, you have to wait until the chip you're going to use is obsolete.
IMO the appropriate word is mature. A mature chip has amortized the design costs, but can still be manufactured using available silicon fabrication processes so making them is quite profitable as long as there's a market.

An obsolete chip is generally one that nobody wants to manufacture any more, such as a 256 Kbit DRAM and many programmable logic devices. If you can find them at all, they're expensive. Product designs that have long lifetimes often have to face what to do when the chips they use become obsolete (AKA past end of life) and can't be purchased any more.
I don't consider "obsolete" to necessarily be a perjorative term. Goods will be manufactured as long as there is enough of a market to make the production pay for itself. If there are still Pis being made in 10 or 20 years, then BCM2835s will be made to use in them, as will the few other chips.

Or as I've been known to tell people from time to time..."Any computer you can buy is obsolete." Perhaps you prefer the term "out dated" or "behind the latest and greatest"?

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Tue May 28, 2013 3:02 am

plugwash wrote: Virtually no devices (other than a handful of low end microcontrollers) have a complete Base-T ethernet interface built in. Afaict the process chracteristics needed to build the physical layer of an ethernet interface don't sit well with the process characteristics you want for a fast processor.
Well..."Fast" is relative, but point taken. Still a good idea, I suspect, to separate the Ethernet interface from the USB interface. Of course, there is always the possibility that some bright lad will come up with a way to mesh the processes together. Look at all the stuff on an SoC that used to be a great many separate chips...

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Lob0426
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Tue May 28, 2013 3:51 am

As was seen with the 512mb B model, if there was a new RasPi in the works, we will not hear about it until it is ready to be sold. The foundation is so bent on the "Osborne Effect" it will die with a new board on its breath, or it will be released the day it goes on sale!

Another option is that they have created the "Raspberry Pi Effect", where the the board is so successful that there is absolutely no motivation to create more designs than they already have.

In either case there are ARM boards in development all over the place. Some companies are inevitably going to try to ride the wave the RasPi has started. You want more power at a higher price? I bet you will see some new boards in your price range. There are already some boards that have many of the features some are asking for. They just do not want to pay that high of price!

It also seems some of you believe the Foundation designs ARM SoC's. they do not! They use existing SoC's to carry out their design.
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Tue May 28, 2013 5:43 am

Lob0426 wrote: In either case there are ARM boards in development all over the place. Some companies are inevitably going to try to ride the wave the RasPi has started.
You mean like the Beagle Bone Black from TI?
You want more power at a higher price? I bet you will see some new boards in your price range. There are already some boards that have many of the features some are asking for. They just do not want to pay that high of price!
Actually...I have already paid the higher price for the features I consider to be critical to a particular project. While I'd love to see the same features on a board from the RPF (there'd be a *lot* better support, for one thing), I'm not expecting those features to show up for 3 to 5 years.
It also seems some of you believe the Foundation designs ARM SoC's. they do not! They use existing SoC's to carry out their design.
Hardly. But Eben *is* knowledgeable about the capabilities of other chips and I have little doubt that if he sees an opportunity to take advantage of a particular chip feature set, he would consider it.

FYI... I showed him a Cubieboard at the Maker Faire. He hadn't seen one. He mused that it was odd that other boards using the same chip don't expose the SATA connector the A10 chip has. It seems like such an obvious feature to take advantage of... (And, yes, I'm quite aware that the BCM2835 has *far* better graphics capabilities than the A10. What I'm doing with them doesn't use the graphics processing beyond a simple desktop with terminal windows open.)

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