Suliman
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New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 10:21 am

When do you plan to release new version of Pi with more RAM and better CPU?

jamesh
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 10:33 am

There are no plans for such a device at the moment.
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Heater
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 4:38 pm

suliman,

Have you considered the implications of what you are asking?

Have you really squeezed out all the capability of the Pi you have? I bet not.

As it stands there are over a million Pi owners out there with many more to come. There are operating systems and software and books and education materials and hardware all dedicated to and perfected for that common device. And these things are being further improved and perfected all the time. See recent progress on GPU accelerated desktops.

Now, if you throw a new improved Pi in there you fracture all that effort. Support becomes divided between old and new. A huge amount of effort has to be put in by it's creators to bring it up to the level of stability of the current Pi. A huge amount of effort needs to be put in by all the users of that new device to figure out all it's new quirks, "features" and just simple differences from the Pi.

Really, you don't want to see a new Pi for a long while yet. One of the Pi's most valuable features is that huge pool of over a million users and the resulting support network they create. All able to work together seemlessly.

However if you really do need some extra performance or more I/O or whatever there are many other ARM boards out there that will satisfy you.

Suliman
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 5:00 pm

I want to try to do from Pi normal PC to run heavy apps. 512RAM for to low. I need at last 4GB RAM for comfort works.

Heater
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 5:13 pm

That is just not going to happen in the near future. And as you may have read is far away from the resaon for the Pi's existance. Are you really expecting a fully fledged PC for 30 dollars? That may come in the furure but that future is not so near.

Out of curiosity what "heavy apps" do you want to run?

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 9:09 pm

Quite seriously, I suggest (to the OP) that you start hanging around auctions and flea markets.

You should be able to find a nice computer for $35 (thereabouts) that will do all that you need.

I know, because I have done so. I have found some real bargains.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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Speedwell68
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 10:07 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote:Quite seriously, I suggest (to the OP) that you start hanging around auctions and flea markets.

You should be able to find a nice computer for $35 (thereabouts) that will do all that you need.

I know, because I have done so. I have found some real bargains.
This. I run a 7 year old laptop with 2gb of ram and it flies on a custom build of Lubuntu. An RPi isn't even comparable to a full fat PC.

holmez
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 10:17 pm

Heater wrote:Now, if you throw a new improved Pi in there you fracture all that effort. Support becomes divided between old and new. A huge amount of effort has to be put in by it's creators to bring it up to the level of stability of the current Pi. A huge amount of effort needs to be put in by all the users of that new device to figure out all it's new quirks, "features" and just simple differences from the Pi.
If you don't believe Heater - look at all the posts, quirks and discussions that surfaced when the 512MB version first came out.

The best you can hope for is a 1GB version when it can be produced within the foundations strict price limit. You won't get any advanced notice of a change - it will be kept under wraps until the older versions have all been dispatched.

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mahjongg
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 11:03 pm

holmez wrote: The best you can hope for is a 1GB version when it can be produced within the foundations strict price limit. You won't get any advanced notice of a change - it will be kept under wraps until the older versions have all been dispatched.
Dont get you hope up for that either, 1GB chips compatible with the PI's SoC do not exist, and there is little or no chance there ever will be any.
The PI uses RAM's that were old-fashioned years ago, and their successors do not fit the PI's SoC! Nobody is willing to fabricate old fashioned types of RAM with a larger capacity, for the relatively small market the PI provides.

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Jim Manley
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 11:17 pm

holmez wrote:The best you can hope for is a 1GB version when it can be produced within the foundations strict price limit.
There is no RAM product with a capacity greater than 512 MB that is compatible with the Broadcom BCM2835 system-on-a-chip (SoC) used in the Pi that is now several years old, technology-wise. RAM manufacturers want to develop products that will have a market for as long and as many SoC devices as possible, and that means delivering for years in the future if you start today. None are going to make that investment on their own, so be prepared to open your wallet ... verrrrry wiiiiide. A pre-paid order of perhaps tens of millions of devices would be necessary just to cover the development costs of such a device. Higher RAM capacity means higher semiconductor density, which requires more expensive production processes, so the cost will bust the Pi's low target price budget.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
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In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

Heater
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 11:23 pm

Speedwell68,
This.
What on earth does that mean? A senetence containing the single word "this" makes no grammatical sense. I have seen it as a growing habbit on various forums and it's really annoying.
I run a 7 year old laptop with 2gb of ram and it flies on a custom build of Lubuntu. An RPi isn't even comparable to a full fat PC.
I am also into using my old gear for as long as possible. The PC I am writing on now might be older than that.

What actually are you expecting the Pi to be for the 25 dollar price? I also have around me other credit card sized ARM boards with newer faster Cortex A8 CPUs and 512MB RAM. Almost 200 Euros a pop.
http://www.isee.biz/products/processor- ... epv2-board There are many similar boards on the market. You know what? They are not much faster than the Pi in practical use.

Snailface
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 11:24 pm

Is breaking software compatibility necessarily certain with a CPU speed upgrade though? There are faster ARM11's out there. It'd be nice to have Multicore or a stable 1Ghz.

Heater
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sat May 25, 2013 11:42 pm

Snailface,
Is breaking software compatibility necessarily certain with a CPU speed upgrade though?
A good question.

At some level no matter what architecture or CPU we might be running Debian, or whatever OS of choice, the underlying hardware matters not.

On the other hand changing to a faster CPU probably means changing the ARM CPU version, of which there are many. So for example the Pi has Raspian, a special build of Debian, because Debian does not optimally support the Pis particular version of ARM processor. Then it might mean a change in GPU to go along with whatever ARM chip is selected. Then it migh mean changes in the arrangemt of USB and Ethernet hardware. And so on and so on.

If you want to see what a mess this can be I challenge you to get an ISEE IGEP board with it's go faster Cortex A8 CPU and get Debian wheezy running on it. I have just done that and it was not trivial.

The remit of the Raspberry Pi foundation is not to provide cheap ARM boards for everyone. Their goal is to provide a seriously cheap educational platform. As such having everyone use the exact same hardware for some years is of tremendous benifit in building a cooperative community of educators and educatees (Is that a new word?). Even the slightest change can wreak havoc in there as instructions that work in one place do not work in another.

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Jim Manley
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 1:23 am

I'm a senior docent at the Computer History Museum in Silicon Valley and I have a special tour I give to computing (both hardware and software engineering) students and faculty. I walk them through the exhibits to show examples where fault lines were artificially introduced into the timeline that set computing progress back years due to uncoordinated and thoughtless actions on the parts of some. One type of fault line has been the relentless push for hardware performance without a concomitant extension of software capabilities to fully take advantage of the hardware advances. One result was the marketing-driven "Megahertz wars" of the early-through-mid personal computing era, where CPU clock speed was given far too much attention over other system attributes. The tech media just made things worse by essentially parroting whatever the press releases stated without much in the way of analysis of what was being claimed. Worse yet, manufacturers tweaked their products to tune them for simplistic hardware benchmarks, which didn't reflect typical real-world usage of systems.

A lot of noise has been made by the Nerdocracy about the deficiencies of the ARM CPU, RAM limitations, Ethernet speed, USB port number and speed, lack of SATA, etc., on the Pi. As I've stated elsewhere in other threads, the most interesting part of the Pi isn't the ARM CPU, it's the VIdeoCore IV GPU and the Quake 3, Pi3D, and Wayland demos show what is possible when the GPU is exercised to its full extent. There's a lot of capability in the GPU that should be exploited, especially by students and educators so that they can be much better understand where computing has been heading over the years.

The purpose of the Pi is not to satiate the Nerdocracy's incessant demands for more, more, more of pretty much everything. That's what the commercial market suppliers are there for, and if you don't like their prices, well, start your own company and do something about it. The Foundation has demonstrated just how low you can go when profit is removed from the equation, but it requires exorbitant amounts of hard work by many volunteers doing everything from printed circuit board layout, to optimizing important software, to describing everything sufficiently that students can learn what has happened over the past century, or so, of computing developments without repeating mistakes made by others. I also give a tour of the exhibits that highlights repeated mistakes - it's kind of the raison d'être for the museum.

Sometimes you have to pull over, stop, and walk among the flowers along the Information Superslab in order to gain a better appreciation for the technology surrounding us today. A lack of perspective results in a very expensive form of gluttony where literally tons of computing power sit idle, or are even discarded before their time. If you haven't already noticed, gluttony ironically is not a growth industry over the long haul. Too much of anything can be a bad thing, and all things should be taken in moderation, including demanding bigger/faster hardware before you've even scratched the surface of what's already available.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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mahjongg
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 12:35 pm

well said Jim!

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 3:58 pm

One upcoming option is UDOO, a combo of 4 Pis with an Arduino. See http://www.udoo.org/
That board has 1GB of DDR3 RAM and runs Android/Linux and costs four times as much as the model A Pi. Still not powerful enough to run a fat Windows OS (RT, which is the only one for ARM). For real Windows you need an x86 based system. There are some cheap bundles at the big box vendors if it has to be new. Otherwise use the advice given before and look on flea markets, free exchange boards, or likewise options. That way you get what you need much faster. The Pi is designed with a very specific purpose in mind and that purpose is not "run heavy apps".
Our Pi Blog - http://weusepis.wordpress.com/

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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 5:02 pm

Heater wrote:Speedwell68,
This.
What on earth does that mean? A senetence containing the single word "this" makes no grammatical sense. I have seen it as a growing habbit on various forums and it's really annoying.
It means that the poster that typed it (a) agrees with the immediately preceding, quoted, material and (b) wishes to emphasize that he agrees.

Yes...it's shorthand. Learn to live with, because it's not going away, but don't make a habit of objecting to it (for that will only annoy others...unless that is your goal).

This explanation brought to you by a poster manfully resisting the urge to make spelling corrections on a post objecting to a rather common posting practice.

Amatøren
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Remember BeagleBone Black & UDOO costs more than R.Pi.

R.Pi is a low cost "computer" for education, but have great graphic!

Heater
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 6:49 pm

W. H. Heydt
It means that the poster that typed it (a) agrees with the immediately preceding, quoted, material and (b) wishes to emphasize that he agrees.
I get the idea. Problem is, if he means to refer to the immediately preceding statement he probably means to say "that" as in "that is true". Where the emphasis comes from is beyond me. If we are happy to redefine "this" as "that" we can continue with mixing up "is" and "was" or "here" and "there" and before you know it nothing makes any sense anymore.

Yes, I make spelling mistakes. I try really hard not to. Sorry, I will try harder in future.

jamesh
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 7:33 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Heater wrote:Speedwell68,
This.
What on earth does that mean? A senetence containing the single word "this" makes no grammatical sense. I have seen it as a growing habbit on various forums and it's really annoying.
It means that the poster that typed it (a) agrees with the immediately preceding, quoted, material and (b) wishes to emphasize that he agrees.

Yes...it's shorthand. Learn to live with, because it's not going away, but don't make a habit of objecting to it (for that will only annoy others...unless that is your goal).

This explanation brought to you by a poster manfully resisting the urge to make spelling corrections on a post objecting to a rather common posting practice.
This.



;)
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Heater
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 8:02 pm

James,
This.
I love it. I tried to reply in a similar style but it blew the forums quote recursion depth limit.

holmez
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Sun May 26, 2013 9:26 pm

Suliman wrote:When do you plan to release new version of Pi with more RAM and better CPU?
Based on the comments to date, I would suggest that a new version is forthcoming once the demand in the pi has died down to nothing.

SimonSmall
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 8:44 am

a new version is forthcoming once the demand in the pi has died down to nothing
My guess is that neither prediction will happen :D

Heater
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Re: New version of Pi. When?

Mon May 27, 2013 9:42 am

I would like to plant the seed of an idea.

The next ARM board from the Foundation should be a 64 bit machine.

My reasoning for this goes as follows:

1) There is a lot of clamouring for a new Pi with more speed more cores more memory more bells and whistles etc etc. Frankly this is pointless, no matter what current ARM you move to it's not going to get you earth shattering gains. Not enough to justify all the effort that would be required to design and build it. The cost would go up. There are plenty of other guys out there with bigger faster ARM boards if you want one. There will be more appearing I'm sure. That market will be saturated. Besides it is not the remit of the foundation to build cheap toys and video players for you. They are an educational set up who would rather work on their educational materials and have a stable platform, the Pi, to base it on.

2) Having said that. The Pi is somewhat inspired by the BBC Micro. Which you will remember had an 8 bit 6502 CPU and was built by ACORN. The next big thing to come from ACORN skipped any upgrades in the 8 bit world, skipped the 16 bit world. No they went straight to 32 bits, designed their own CPU, the ARM, and produced the Archimedes. Well, that was pretty damn audacious.

So following historical precedent. The Foundation should skip any little incremental improvements and go for the big one. Be the first cheap 64 bit ARM board.

No hurry.

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