liamc
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:08 pm

Over the last couple of weeks or so I have been so disappointed with what"s happend on this forum. This is ment to be a central hub for constructive discussion and idea building, but instead has been used to simply abuse the voluntary workers/admins which help to maintain this forum.

Once again a very small group of people are forgetting the roots of this project, and the potential kick start it could have on the computer industry and school system alike. They are forgetting the time and effort put in by so many different people, and the hard work that has been put into it.

If the forum Carys on the way it is it will not survive, and then all this hard work will have been for nothing. No one will gain, and then students will be in the same position as before.

We need to pull together, accept differences in opinion, but realise the impact comments have on others. We need that community spirit back, and the support which the foundation needs.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:22 pm

In a way, this is an entirely natural phase (and it is an end-phase) for any forum.

That is, you run out of substantive things to say - and so degenerate into either endless sniping (which is what always happens on Usenet and which seems to have happened here) or you start talking about endless (but, luckily, pleasant) off-topic things like birthdays, pets, gardening, Doctor Who, what browser you use, what you had for lunch, and so on.   As I say, one or the other...

Here, I think we've exhausted everything there is to say about the Pi, that can be said when no one (or almost no one, if you want to be picky) has one and no one (or almost no one, if you want to be picky) expects to have one any time soon.  I don't even want to hazard a guess as to when someone will have one, given that there are estimates (sourced from RS/Farnell emails and god-knows-what-else) all over the block.  At this point, March 1st, 2013 is looking as good as anything.

Now, mind you, I'm not complaining.  I've said from the beginning that the only sane approach to this is to just sit back and get it when you get it.

But again, to re-iterate, I think this is where forums always end up, when the thrill is gone...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

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Tass
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:29 pm

Let's hope that the new on the tip of Liz's touge will restore order, and get the people truly dedicated to the underlying heart of this project something tangible to focus on, leaving the trolls and sceptics with nothing to clutch to (or is the last part hoping for too much? )

john_wage
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:41 pm

Liam said:


Over the last couple of weeks or so I have been so disappointed with what"s happend on this forum. This is ment to be a central hub for constructive discussion and idea building, but instead has been used to simply abuse the voluntary workers/admins which help to maintain this forum.


My guess is the people who originally came here expecting a revolutionizing development platform and a thriving blooming community of tweakers, hackers, and makers of all sorts are getting a bit impatient because it is taking 6 months from official product launch until reaching the hands of the customers.

liamfraser280
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:46 pm

Great OP Liam - you're completely right.

Once the Pi's start coming out, I think (and hope) there will be a lot more positivity and collaboration on the forums.

The admins do a fantastic job and they are doing it voluntarily because they want to support the foundation. Especially recently with all the duplicate posts asking the same questions; not to mention the trolling! A lot of the guys on the forums have been modding since I've been here and that's a good 6 months. They deserve respect.

Cheers all,

Liam.

simonIOW
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:52 pm

The respect has gone the way of patience...

Toby Stokes
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:54 pm

I agree with the OP. Although I do think these forums will survive. There's still lots of great discussion going on

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djlins
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:58 pm

It is such a shame,

I dont really want to go into one and write a post of dissapointment and frustration, and I know that the respect and hype that is about now compared to February 29th has dropped immensely and it is more due to bad luck rather than bad planning or laziness, (I'm on about respect from the masses not the hardcore elite).

but yeah - It is such a shame.

As they say you dont get a second chance to make a first impression and the first impression has well and truly been made now. Even I cant keep thinking of optimistic posts to write or things to say what I am gonna do with my future Pi. When anyone asks why havent I completed my project that I was banging on about since January then what can I say? I obviously blame the Pi and make a joke of it.

Aaanyways, yeah, I cant really see how this is going to get back the thirst from the homebrewers that it had 4 weeks ago. Maybe a couple of BIG ideas or things that people think "Oooh I never thought of using it for that" might get the tweets going again and get some of the people that have fallen by the wayside back into the fold again.

Such a shame.
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spamel
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:44 pm

I drop in now and then, but interest has waned for me. I thought things were moving along fine until RS and Wotsit got involved. Yes, there would have still been a delay without them but I still maintain that selling the first batch to the community on the forum would have been a much wiser choice, and then let the big boys take over. Saying that, the blame can now be deflected their way as to why a board or 10000 hasn"t shipped a month on. Hopefully it will all come right soon, but right now each time I do visit the forum it is a swathe of excuses and locked threads. Very dissapointing.

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mkopack
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:53 pm

It's difficult to keep a substantive discussion with new ideas flowing when none of us have product to play with, experience issues with, try things with, etc. Not saying this as a knock, just making the observation.

I usually hang out in the RPi IRC channel and it's going through the same issues - we're running out of RPi related things to discuss and it's turning into "what the heck is going on with the Rpi delivery?" and "Have you checked out XYZ on the web?" The channel Bot is even set up to respond to "Is it out yet?" with a joke because it's the only way to keep our spirits up.

Until the boards start getting into SOMEBODY's hands, what more is there to talk about???

The various issues faced over the last month, and the limited hard facts about shipping dates means people will naturally - 1) think the worst, 2) get frustrated/bored/upset, 3) complain. Sorry, but that's going to happen.

I've been a pretty big proponent of the RPi, following it closely since Sept, talking multiple people into ordering one, etc. And I've been pretty understanding of all the issues and mis-steps all along. I know it happens. But I have to admit that when I saw the Estimated Ship Date on my Newark order switch from March 30 to Aug 16 today, "WTF?!?! ARGH" was heard from my lips. I now know that's just a clerical error, but it points to the problem and frustrations that everyone is facing with this product release. With all the delays we've seen just since December, any errors like this just make things look that much worse, and this sort of mistake causes people to fly off the handle. And most people aren't following what's going on with the RPi as close as you and I might be so they see something like a ship date change and won't know that it's a clerical error...

I think most of us ARE trying to be patient and understanding - but there's the vocal minority who are just going to get annoyed because they don't understand the complexities of shipping this sort of product, and don't understand that they aren't dealing with somebody the size of Apple or MS or Dell.

Phoenix RasPi
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:44 am

I do foresee a silver lining in the continuing clouds.  When the bargain hunters who managed to horn in on the early orders finally do receive their boards, they will have either completely forgotten why they bought them, or will hook them up and realize they can't do anything without some work more difficult than clicking on a desktop icon.  Even if they do have some tech smarts, they may otherwise realize that you can't decode commercial Blu-Ray discs, stream things from Netflix, control it with their iPad, etc.

Then, Phase Two will kick in - they will put them up on ePrey, etc., get even less than what a new one costs, and those of us who are waiting for boards to do development can swoop in and snag them at a discount.  While the distributors get manufacturing ramped up, we can be hammering our wonderful new ideas into shape on actual hardware.  Then, by the time volume production is sufficient to satisfy educational demand (first for science/math teachers, then other teachers, and then students in large numbers), we will have some great things running and documented (perhaps by others who are also waiting, but, not doing development), and everything will work out just peachy.

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Lob0426
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:03 am

Several of you have hit the real problem, in that every thing that can be discussed, at least until we have a product in our hands, has pretty much been discussed.

I think every HTPC post should be deleted so we can start a hundred more again. We should also delete all of the posts about OTG, USB 3.0, PSU's. That might meen we can make it until August, if in fact it takes that long, to rerun all of these again, say a hundred more times. Most of these topics were old by December 2011. (no really lets not do this)

The cure will be when we can get to our projects! There will be tons of interesting posts in this forum then! The sniping will quit and the Trolls will hopefully go someplace where there is chaos for them to feed on. There are some interesting threads still popping up feed those and ignore the others.
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ukscone
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:46 am

I think I saw some under the kitchen sink although it might be a bottle of bleach

Cylon
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:05 am

I think the foundation did the best they could given the finance, time and help.

We all need to understand that even the best startup is frought with issues, delays etc... Sure the pre negotiarions with RS & Farnell may have missed some things but sometimes compliance and other matters, some we may find totally silly just have to be sorted after the event.

Be glad that they did come up with this little board for us and the pi itself, things will get better, itcalled patience, and as much as i hate waiting for things, im just glad to be invovled and hope for good things to come from it.

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SN
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:29 am

Since my raspi is probably not going to turn up until May at the earliest I'm going to buy some USB driven bits and have a play from a Linux PC with the hope it all work on the raspi when it turns up - and bore you all with my progress
Steve N – binatone mk4->intellivision->zx81->spectrum->cbm64->cpc6128->520stfm->pc->raspi ?

jamesh
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:30 am

I've been fortunate enough to have an alpha board for a while, and know a couple of people who do actually have the release board.

You know what? It's pretty good. Even given the development stage it's at. There's work to do on the X acceleration, and general distro stuff, but hey - like I said, it's pretty good.

And I don't think it will be that long before larger scale deliveries get going.

We are on top of the hill  now - still hard work, but easing off, with a much easier downhill stretch in front of us.
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simonIOW
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:43 am

JamesH said:

We are on top of the hill  now - still hard work, but easing off, with a much easier downhill stretch in front of us.




Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

(sorry)

simonIOW
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:50 am


JamesH said:

We are on top of the hill  now – still hard work, but easing off, with a much easier downhill stretch in front of us.



And an idea for a project to get to the top...

http://www.neatorama.com/2010/.....re-wheels/

hippy
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:53 pm

Liam said:


Over the last couple of weeks or so I have been so disappointed with what"s happend on this forum. This is ment to be a central hub for constructive discussion and idea building, but instead has been used to simply abuse the voluntary workers/admins which help to maintain this forum.


Drag people into a meeting, then don't start that meeting on time and see how long it takes for people to start complaining and being critical. Some people have more patience than others but people's blood pressure can rise when things don't happen when they expect them to, be it a bus or train a minute late, a few seconds in a traffic jam, traffic lights staying red longer than they'd like.

Everyone has to be realistic and, as regrettable as it may be, people do get unhappy. When people get unhappy they want to express their unhappiness somehow or somewhere and usually will. That expression of unhappiness isn't always fired-off in the right direction or presented in the best of ways.

As anyone who's ever done customer service knows it's no good simply telling people they shouldn't be unhappy because they are. It's often best to let them vent - which is what they want and maybe need to do at that time - let them get it off their chest, suck it up, then address any legitimate points as best one can. Sometime one cannot make unhappy people happy, but one can assuage any anger they feel in their unhappiness. 'Conflict resolution' takes a thick skin and a diplomatic hand; get it wrong and it can make things worse than they are.

As others have noted; once R-Pi are shipping and the current uncertainties over related issues are resolved we'll likely return to normality with focus back on developing and building the community.

antiloquax
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Re: Where's the respect gone?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Delays are frustrating, and I suppose it's natural that some people will express that frustration more forcibly than others.

Things will only really kick off when the devices are in the hands of young people in significant numbers (not to mention countries with low numbers of computers per capita).

I have started a programming club in my school and I am trying to learn Python (and a bit of Java) as quickly as I can. At the moment, the club is not hugely well-attended, but I imagine that will change when the kids in my town start buying RPis.

One thing I worry about (as a long term Linux-user) is that a lot of computer users (even quite experienced ones) don't know much about Linux, or even have a rather negative view about it.

That's one reason why am am glad to see that several posters on this thread have spoken about getting to grips with Linux and learning programming. If we do that, we'll be in a much better position to support the RPi users who have never used Linux before.

The members of this forum are (I'd guess) mainly hackers, developers and "hobbyists". We don't really "need" an RPi in the way that kids with no computer (or perhaps just one that they don't have much access to) in their house do. But hopefully, we'll be a great resource for them when the production issues are cleared up.

Exciting times are ahead!

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