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liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:05 pm

There's been an outbreak of concern trolling in these parts recently. As a result, I've banned two members from the forums this evening (you know who you are).

If I decide that somebody is wasting a disproportionate amount of mod time, or if I have a large number of people reporting somebody's posts, I *will* ban that person; a slow drip-drip of concern trolling is just as unwelcome here as outright rudeness. In both tonight's cases posts which have just been on the edge have been reported so many times that I've decided enough is enough. We welcome discussion, and disagreement is essential for debate, but please behave here as you would if you were talking to people face to face.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

simonIOW
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:33 pm

It saddens me that people feel they can get away with this sort of behaviour just to get a buzz from responses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/maga.....e-17399027

Zen hugs from the nice posters!

babbage
Posts: 123
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:34 pm

I suspect eventually this problem will solve itself, as genuine concerns from genuine people get them either banned or thread locked, people will just stop posting and / or visiting. Mods will Just be moderating themselves.

simonIOW
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:37 pm

Oh look.  Case in point.

babbage
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:47 pm

I'm afraid that I'm not here to get off on responses. My life is somewhat more fulfilling than that. In fact this is one of the first forums I have felt compelled to contribute to because I think that the Pi is such an incredible product and want to be a part of that.

However, free discussion is something I also value

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liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:50 pm

As do we. Keep things polite, don't behave like an ass, and we'll enjoy free discussion with you.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

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abishur
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:55 pm

@steve, I hope your not talking about the R-pi site, if so I fear you've been exposed to a slanted reality   We don't lock thread or ban people for bringing up genuine concerns.  We lock threads when they turn into hateful attacking speech (or if they're duplicates, but we're not really talking about those).

You'd be amazed at what it takes to get a person banned on the forum.  I've been on forums where I got a temporary ban because the moderator felt my comment about a lunar calendar like the Hebrews use was a discussion on religion!  When we ban a person it's because they consistently (that is to say much more than a one time offense) have made attacks on either one of the moderators or on the RPF.  They typically do this on the forums, in the comments on the blogs, and even via PMs with us.  The people we ban have usually even gone out of their way to follow an admin around to persistently cause trouble wherever they are trying to answer questions and encourage dialog.

It's a sad truth, but the reality of the situation is we make it a policy of only banning those who by their actions have proven that they are bullies out to disrupt an otherwise pleasant community   And maybe that is a failing on our part.  Maybe if we took a more proactive stance against trolling rather than giving people fourth, fifth, or tenth chances then maybe this crazy misconception about admins would exist
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

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meltwater
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:09 pm

The admins get a lot of stick for doing a great job (IMHO).

Aside from protecting the interests of the foundation on their own forum..which you'd expect any place to do (there are many many examples far worse on other sites than simply locking a thread which gets out of hand or really isn't adding anything positive or useful).

As for stuff which is simply attacking or inappropriate…then the admins shouldn't hold back, it has no place here.

Anyway.  Keep up the good work!
______________
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khulat
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:14 pm

Abishur said:

And maybe that is a failing on our part.  Maybe if we took a more proactive stance against trolling rather than giving people fourth, fifth, or tenth chances then maybe this crazy misconception about admins would exist

From personal experience and observations i can tell you that admins are always doing it wrong, regardless of what they do. Only the people who think that they know better change.

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Tass
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:18 pm

meltwater said:


The admins get a lot of stick for doing a great job (IMHO).

...
Anyway.  Keep up the good work!



Couldn't agree more! (*raises glass*)

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Tass
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:21 pm

Abishur said:

And maybe that is a failing on our part.  Maybe if we took a more proactive stance against trolling rather than giving people fourth, fifth, or tenth chances then maybe this crazy misconception about admins would exist

Just a great big trolling stamp, to be used liberally?


simonIOW
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:26 pm

Nice troll stamp, need one with a raspberry...

Phil Spiegel
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:28 pm

On the subject of 'bans'/ or not; I see the T-Shirt offer is still on Ebay.co.uk, and the Vinyl suitcase sticker...  I must admit I like the T-shirt slogan 8-)  [search =  Raspberry Pi]

If its not being banned, its tempting ... but better through the Pi Shop ... will that be called 'Sweenies' ?

'Seeing Red' - whilst some posters obviously have been! ...am I the only one who seems to get Red - as in New/Recently updated topics on topics where I've already read the latest posting ??? Roll on the new forum software ... this one is collapsing?

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Tass
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:30 pm

simonIOW said:


Nice troll stamp, need one with a raspberry...



Damn, why didn't I think of that!

boley
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:32 pm

liz said:


There's been an outbreak of concern trolling in these parts recently. .... a slow drip-drip of concern trolling is just as unwelcome here as outright rudeness. ....


Thank you!

Lynbarn
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:34 pm

Phil Spiegel said:


'Seeing Red' – whilst some posters obviously have been! …am I the only one who seems to get Red – as in New/Recently updated topics on topics where I've already read the latest posting ??? Roll on the new forum software … this one is collapsing?


Yes, I've noticed that too. Might it perhaps be triggered by edits to existing posts, rather than a new post to the thread, which wouldn't be so obvious? (Admins can edit any post, whereas members can only edit their post before a subsequent post is made).

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abishur
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:57 pm

Tass said:


Abishur said:


And maybe that is a failing on our part.  Maybe if we took a more proactive stance against trolling rather than giving people fourth, fifth, or tenth chances then maybe this crazy misconception about admins would exist


Just a great big trolling stamp, to be used liberally?





Can I get a definition of "trolling stamp?" TLtG (Too lazy to google)
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

ailwyn
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:07 pm

Just assume a big foot with a "no trolling" sign on it, to stamp on those who misbehave... that would be my guess

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Jongoleur
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:08 pm

Phil Spiegel said:


On the subject of 'bans'/ or not; I see the T-Shirt offer is still on Ebay.co.uk, and the Vinyl suitcase sticker…  I must admit I like the T-shirt slogan 8-)  [search =  Raspberry Pi]

If its not being banned, its tempting … but better through the Pi Shop … will that be called 'Sweenies' ?


Sweenies?

I'd prefer Dibblers, but then again perhaps not

As for the merchandise, I don't know if its legit, but it's been reported to the appropriate authorities.
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

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Tass
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:16 pm

Abishur said:


Can I get a definition of "trolling stamp?" TLtG (Too lazy to google)



http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/.....ce-problem

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Tass
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:32 pm

Tass said:


Abishur said:


Can I get a definition of "trolling stamp?" TLtG (Too lazy to google)


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/.....ce-problem


Although if you're talking about how you could use a stamp like this, I'd say it would be a simple way to close a thread – big-ass troll-stamp/inserted image, lock the thread, 'nuff said.

EDIT: Or maybe this is too antagonistic?

Andre_P
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:46 pm

You know I learn stuff everyday, I didn't even know that the term 'Concern Troll' existed, and  while I'm about admitting to my own ignorance it's only been in the last few months that the term Troll has really struck home .

Healthy debate is good. Debate that resorts insincere perspectives, attacking your interlocutor rather than the argument, just plain being rude or just plain being an ARSE* stops being a debate and descends to the pitiful grunts of Neanderthals.

*  Sorry I refuse to use the term Ass as a perjorative, Asses are gentle creatures who do not deserve such an unjust reflection IMHO.

crshbndct
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:10 pm

Andre_P said:


You know I learn stuff everyday, I didn't even know that the term 'Concern Troll' existed, and  while I'm about admitting to my own ignorance it's only been in the last few months that the term Troll has really struck home .

Healthy debate is good. Debate that resorts insincere perspectives, attacking your interlocutor rather than the argument, just plain being rude or just plain being an ARSE* stops being a debate and descends to the pitiful grunts of Neanderthals.

*  Sorry I refuse to use the term Ass as a perjorative, Asses are gentle creatures who do not deserve such an unjust reflection IMHO.



I would like some clarification here. Does this just mean people who raise concerns about the Product?

Andre_P
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:28 pm

Hi crshbndct,

I'm not an admin, just a forum member, so I don't define house rules etc.

I refer to the term debate when there may be opposing points of view yet there is a desire to find the best result through respectful discourse.

I would suggest that if you have a sincere and legitimate issue then you could bring it up as a point for discussion. However be prepared to have people oppose the point of view and then be prepared to discuss, in a civilised way, the issue.

What I would point out though is that just re-openning a discussion again does NOT further the discussion.

Also behaving in such  a way that would resemble being an ARSE, bullying etc would I suspect incur the wrath of any moderator on any forum that appears on the Internet or in the real world.

Here endeth the Civics Lesson .

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Tass
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Re: Concern trolling

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:36 pm

Andre_P said:

Healthy debate is good. Debate that resorts insincere perspectives, attacking your interlocutor rather than the argument, just plain being rude or just plain being an ARSE* stops being a debate and descends to the pitiful grunts of Neanderthals.
Nice, clean, clear definition as I see it!

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