sightlight
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:34 am

Microsoft Confirmed that Windows 8 will be able to run/support ARM processor. A rumour that is just "that"..a rumour saids that windows 8 will run xbox 360 games.

What could this mean for the pi?
It sure sounds nice.

What do you guys think about this confirmation and rumour?

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:43 am

Whether or not that means anything for r-pi is just speculation. I am assuming it doesn't mean anything.

sightlight
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:46 am

I have to say that with the current pi specs, will probably have a feture, I dont see games running too well though if they run at all. Sure sounds nice.

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:32 am

don't know, don't care. There's plenty to go around with Linux, older console emulators, and even Linux games.

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:38 am

Also, I want to make sure people don't think that running windows 8 will allow them to run (insert some windows game here). It doesn't work that way. The game/program needs to be specifically compiled for ARM and not x86.

gerits
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:22 am

You probably need a 1Ghz dual core to run it.. Windows 8 is based on html5, so try running some html5 websites and see how good that works..

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:16 am

Lol, so it's basically another useless browser disguised as an OS?

gerits
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:46 am

No, windows 8 is windows 7 with a extra toplayer (that can be hidden). You should check out some youtube video's. It's basically a windows phone 7 style gui that can be arranged fullscreen or next to a normal windows gui.

So to run windows 8 you will need a pc that can run windows 7. The support for arm is because a 1.5 ghz dualcore is cheaper than the atom 1.5 gbz dualcore...

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:13 pm

We were actually discussing this on another thread (I forget which one, I think we were off topic :P ) when it was mentioned that even with ARM support windows 8 (or CE for that matter) will not work on the r-pi. The issue at hand is this little binary blob in the broadcom chip. Basic broadcom won't release it open source (and hey, I don't blame them, they're a business they gotta keep the core of their technology a little close). Without that blob theirs apparently some issue getting everything to work right.

So we've been told not to hold our breath for windows OS support.:(
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:03 pm

... Putting windblows on the raspie would totally ruin it.
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:06 pm

I'm sure your profile picture isn't hinting at any sort of bias in OS choices either :P :P :P
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liz
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:20 pm

One of the things I love about getting to moderate this site is getting to see the variety of OS and browser choices you lot are using - a completely different demographic from any other site I've worked on. It looks like there are even a few people here using browsers they've written themselves - lovely stuff.

[ETA: Own up. Which of you is using Netscape Navigator?]
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:45 pm

Quote from abishur on August 18, 2011, 14:13
We were actually discussing this on another thread (I forget which one, I think we were off topic :P ) when it was mentioned that even with ARM support windows 8 (or CE for that matter) will not work on the r-pi. The issue at hand is this little binary blob in the broadcom chip. Basic broadcom won't release it open source (and hey, I don't blame them, they're a business they gotta keep the core of their technology a little close). Without that blob theirs apparently some issue getting everything to work right.

So we've been told not to hold our breath for windows OS support.:(

It's not the binary blobs fault - that would stay the same for whatever OS you were using. But you would need to completely rewrite the linux drivers to work under an Arm compiled version of Windows. That's the big job. And unless someone comes forward to pay for it (Another customer for the SoC who wants Windows support rather than Linux), very unlikely to happen.
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Gabriel
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:01 pm

Quote from RobinJ on August 18, 2011, 19:03
... Putting windblows on the raspie would totally ruin it.

I agree with you, just because of the price it would cost !
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:18 pm

http://wiki.winehq.org/ARM
http://www.winehq.org/pipermai.....68154.html

So there has been some work on porting Wine to ARM and there is plans to port CentOS to ARM. If we wanna run Windows app the creation on a "Wine CE" for ARM would be an option, Another option would be to combine Wine sources with Win CE sources. They are totally license-incompatible but it would be technically possible if we disregard the legal issues... but personally i would prefer a pure Wine CE for ARM under the GPL... As for drivers Wine would naturally use the Linux drivers, as it would run as a Windows process, just like upstream Wine does not require Windows drivers.

Running the shell from mainline Windows would just be a matter of making Wine compatible with it. It could be a bitch but totally worth it. :)

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:14 pm

Quote from mateli on August 18, 2011, 21:18
So there has been some work on porting Wine to ARM


This would be interesting, after a fashion...but not so much so on the R-Pi. You're likely to need a Cortex A8/[A9/A15 based device to make it better than a curiosity.


and there is plans to port CentOS to ARM.


Heh... All you need do is largely recompile it. I could "port" CentOS to ARM if I really, really wanted to- so could CentOS.


If we wanna run Windows app the creation on a "Wine CE" for ARM would be an option,


No, it won't.

1) You need a license to make a BSP for it. It's $9999 or so for that.
2) Even if you splunged for that, you're going to have to make a BSP for the devices.
3) WinCE, while it LOOKS like Windows, isn't Windows- and Windows apps will not run without moderate modifications and a recompile in it.


Another option would be to combine Wine sources with Win CE sources. They are totally license-incompatible but it would be technically possible if we disregard the legal issues...


Uh, no. NEVER disregard licensing issues. In this case, if you did this at all, succeeding or not, you'd be violating the LGPL of the WINE License AND Microsoft's license. If you want an object lesson in why you shouldn't even THINK about this sort of thing, Google for "busybox verizon actiontec" and do a bit of reading. If you thought the FOSS bunch was rough with them on this instance, you'd be facing similar- and Microsoft will make THAT look like a Sunday Picnic.


but personally i would prefer a pure Wine CE for ARM under the GPL...


Unless you've got a PDA app you want to run, WHY? WinCE is NOT Windows. It looks like Windows. It sort of programs LIKE Windows, but it will not run Windows apps. Only WinCE ones.

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:20 pm

Quote from sightlight on August 18, 2011, 04:34
Microsoft Confirmed that Windows 8 will be able to run/support ARM processor. A rumour that is just "that"..a rumour saids that windows 8 will run xbox 360 games.

What could this mean for the pi?
It sure sounds nice.

What do you guys think about this confirmation and rumour?

It is building a version to support ARM in the sense of the Cortex A8/A9/A15 which are superscalar in-order(A8)/out-of-order(A9/A15) processors. The R-Pi is neither of those. It might be doable in a processor arch sense of things- but the performance won't be.

More specifically to the point, even if it would run Windows 8...none of your applications WILL on this processor. Pretty much all binaries for Windows are X86. This is ARM. The story's to look good to the investors and try to keep relevant as ARM's eating everyone's lunch on the low-end, soon even on servers and desktops. The Windows8 stuff will have TONS of returns as people find out they need to buy new apps as all of the ones they have don't work.

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:30 pm

I'd be happy if it would be possible for it to run windows 8. I bet the main problem would be the lack of RAM though. Plus the locked-down, nobody's-gonna-get-the-info-so-you're-gonna-have-to-suck-balls hardware bobbins, though I bet that'll come out in time...
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

sightlight
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:49 pm

Model B might be able to pull it off.

Or model C.

:)

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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:54 pm

Hate to let you down, guys, but Windows support is *very* low on our list of priorities at the moment. We might look into it at a (much) later date - but it seems pretty clear that most of our potential users won't want to fork over extra $$$ for a licence for an OS.
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Re: Windows 8?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:11 pm

The cost for a Microsoft SDK (Software Developers Kit) would be a stumbling block all by itself. Usually these things are thousands of dollars.
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Re: Windows 8?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:38 am

Guys... A big question (and I'm serious about this...) why do you all want Windows 8?

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Windows 8?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:15 am

I am guessing some people are intimidated by linux or have some misconceptions about it. Sometimes people expect linux to be exactly like windows and when they see that there are no file extensions and their .exe files don't run they think "what the bloody hell is this!?" and reinstall windows.

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Re: Windows 8?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:16 am

Well yeah. Familiarity. Plus it's no doubt going to be popular, so that means lots of software...
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

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Re: Windows 8?

Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:27 am

Lots of x86/64 software perhaps, but I doubt Windows will ever overtake linux on embedded and mobile devices.

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