ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:55 pm

Hi,

I'm thinking about replacing my aged netbook (with celeron M processor), which is only good for seeing sub 720p video's with the pi.

My question is, if there's software provided with the pi, that can play back video's; and if yes, if it is configurable or not?

Quite often I have to adjust aspect ratio, pan the video to get rid of extended panscan lines (eg:video displayed at a 21/9 resolution).

I also would like to know if it has the option to make use of hardware acceleration, and advanced feats like post processing video, sharpening, and adjusting contrast/saturation of a video.

For audio it'd be nice if the player had an audio compressor, volume leveler, gain adjuster, and volume mixer (master/video volume and panning).

In Windows there's a codec pack (CCC) that allows you to do all of these and more!

Will there be anything like this available for the Pi?

Smartybones
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:17 pm

the link below may help with your questions

LINK

apologies for my sarcasm, all this has been asked and answered many times over.

google  openELEC they are doing wonders with the XBMC

ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:28 pm

Ok,but does it answer if the video player comes with hardware decoding,or post processing video, sharpening, and adjusting contrast/saturation?

And from half of the links I'm not able to make out if the software comes with the stock OS, or from another OS loaded on the pi!

Phil Spiegel
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:02 am

NO software is provided with the Raspberry Pi – you have total freedom of choice in choosing a (suitable) variant of Linux to download yourself and place onto an SD card in the required format.  What is "currently on offer" is not a complete cased off-the-shelf system for consumer use, but a bare board for development….

(RISC OS is also planned to be available for it" from ROOL)

tufty
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:27 am

ProDigit said:


Ok,but does it answer if the video player comes with hardware decoding,or post processing video, sharpening, and adjusting contrast/saturation?

And from half of the links I'm not able to make out if the software comes with the stock OS, or from another OS loaded on the pi!


The XBMC people are working on XBMC for the Pi, with that and openELEC you should get everything that XBMC provides in terms of controls.

However, if you're looking for an out-of-the-box, fully working and polished media player, you probably want to be looking at something like a boxee, AppleTV, Roku or cuBox.  Yes, they are more expensive than the Pi, but:

a - they are available now, rather than October or later (apart from cuBox, which is on preorder but supposed to ship in April)

b - they come with case, power supply, remote control, cables and all required storage (for the Pi you'll need to separately source a case of some sort, PSU, keyboard, mouse, HDMI cable, SD card and probably a USB hub, and you'll need to pick and install the OS yourself)

c - they come with a more extensive set of video and audio codecs (due to licensing costs, the Pi comes with a very minimal set of hardware accelerated codecs.  To fully understand what is currently available, see http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/592 and read all the comments, the short version is "h.263, h.264 and nothing else").

If you understand the limitations of the Pi and don't mind working within them, then the Pi is probably a decent buy (when you can eventually get one). But you do need to understand the limitations to reduce the chances of tears before bedtime.

Simon

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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:56 am

ProDigit said:


Ok,but does it answer if the video player comes with hardware decoding,or post processing video, sharpening, and adjusting contrast/saturation?

And from half of the links I'm not able to make out if the software comes with the stock OS, or from another OS loaded on the pi!


Hardware decoding is there - only way you can decode H264 1080p would be hardware, the Arm at 700Mhz isn't fast enough.

Although post processing the stream is possible, I don't think the code to do it is there at present. We do this all the time for the camera during encoding, no reason that the ISP couldn't do it on a video stream. Would require work on the GPU though I think. Might be possible via openMax - not sure.
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lb
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:24 am

Is it possible to efficiently let the video decoder render into OpenGL textures, or to efficiently convert the decoded frames into textures? Many simple postprocessing steps can be done with OpenGL easily.

ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:20 am

Thank you for the responses.
I'm not looking for an all out of the box solution, though it would be nice if these feats where present or not.

Sharpen uses a lot of cycles, and it's not very commonly present on media players, however post processing is, as well as saturation and contrast.

I don't know about the pi OS, but where can I find out about which files it plays back? (eg: MKV/OGV/AVI/MP4/MOV/WMV ?)

shirro
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:46 am

ProDigit said:


I don't know about the pi OS, but where can I find out about which files it plays back? (eg: MKV/OGV/AVI/MP4/MOV/WMV ?)


The OS is called Linux (or GNU/Linux for the pedantic). Since the CPU is incapable of playing most video formats we are reliant on the binary-only drivers for the GPU supplied by the RP Foundation and Broadcom which are only licensed to decode a small number of codecs. This is all detailed elsewhere. The subset of codecs is determined by price and the requirement to make a stunningly awesome cheap education computer, not a media center device for people to cheap to buy a Roku2 or AppleTV.

The file types listed are all containers and all those containers can be understood by typical linux libraries and video applications. The media streams in these containers need to be decoded by codecs and the number of codecs is limited for reasons explained above. For instance mpeg2 which is widely used for digital tv is not provided so the board is more or less useless as a DVR or DVR front end. Which is good because supply is limited enough as it is.

tufty
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:56 am

shirro said (amongst other good stuff):


This is all detailed elsewhere.


Such as the link I posted above.

The accelerated video codecs you will get are, as I understand it, currently limited to H.264/MPEG4 Part 10 and MPEG4 Part 2. I don't know what audio codecs are implemented.

Simon

JoeDaStudd
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:21 am

tbh your much better getting a cheap media player (the ones which run from sd card or usb stick).

Its going to be a long time (months) until you can place and order and get a R-Pi within a reasonable timeframe.

ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:58 pm

I personally already havea cheap media player. Costed me $37,and plays back most sub 720p, and 'some' 1080p video.

I see potential in a device like this, that can do more than just play media files!

As far as Mpeg4,that means it should be able to read .avi,mp4,m4a, aac, avc, some mkv and ogv (although Vorbis video container is not easily found),

.rm, and .rmv might be out of the question.

If it's about the same as my media player, which also is based on Linux, it'll be harder to have it play back wmv or MOV files;as well as some peculiar Divx/Xvid files (eg with qpix on, or b-frames) or the older decoded Div3 which is still too different from DivX/XviD files.

And if the above poster was true then it'll certainly not read DVD or blueray discs, not that it matters because most home theaters have a dedicated DVD/blueray player anyway.

If I could compare it to my media player (which I find most Linux media players are like this), then it'll also have problems reading from NTFS COMPRESSED drives; but should be able to read regular NTFS; FAT16/32 and Linux formats. Probably CAN'T read Ex-Fat, and macintosh formats.

I know some Linux operating systems that have an installation file that allows them to play back .wmv

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SN
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:02 pm

Quite frankly this is a ridiculous thread. Stop asking more and more inane questions as you clearl are missing the whole point of the raspi. It will not do what you want. Buy an AppleTV and be done with it!!!
Steve N – binatone mk4->intellivision->zx81->spectrum->cbm64->cpc6128->520stfm->pc->raspi ?

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abishur
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:10 pm

If what they're looking for is a media streaming device to hook up to their TV, I respectfully disagree with your assessment SN   The XBMC people have shown that the R-pi will make a great media center for anyone who wants to use it that way.  Of course, I hope they buy a second one at some point to see what else they can do with it
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:51 pm

@SN: No reason to start being rude;

the pi will do fine as a media player for a lot of movies, I'm just trying to find out where currently it's limits are, and if something can be done about it or not (eg: if there is a possibility to expand current existing software);and perhaps even throw in some ideas that others might be interested in too, others who are more proficient with programming and linux than I.

I think the reasons to have this player as a media player are obvious!

One: to have a CHEAP device that plays back media files (something Apple will never be)

Two: To have something more than a media player (a pc to check mails and browse internet); yet another thing Apple will never be!

Three, I don't understand why you're the second person promoting apple TV, if there are so much more, better and cheaper alternatives to it?

And four: I abhor apple and will rather buy an entire store of media players than one single apple product (although their ipad 3 is pretty good, and about the only device I'd buy if they priced it below $399 today; which they will never do, and thus I keep on abhorring, and not buying apple products!)

shirro
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:04 pm

Sorry if people are being negative ProDigit. Some people have been waiting for the Pi for ages. We got the nod and pressed F5 waiting for the ordering details. We got our order in within the first 15 minutes. Then we waited for a month to see the delivery dates move further and further away. It isn't your fault or anyones really. It is just the way it is.

Some people wanted to work on porting software and building custom distributions. Some wanted to experiment with the GPU capabilities. Some wanted to build and test hardware expansion boards. And there is a feeling that with not enough boards to go around too many are going to people who are going to EXPECT a media center out of the box then bitch and moan when they can't get it to work.

The people who might have the experience to tell you what codecs will or won't work without acceleration, in what resolutions and perhaps port additional software codecs and players can't get a board. So my advice is just wait for the mainstream release towards the end of the year when there will likely be a number of polished images along the lines of the xbmc/openelec ones with all the bugs sorted out and published specs on what will and won't work instead of a lot of guesswork based on the speed of the CPU and the licensed hardware codecs.

If most current TVs didn't include embedded Linux media players, and there weren't cheap hackable chinese A10 media players on the market and a host of polished commercial solutions and there was no scarcity of boards we would probably all enjoy a chat about the codec support and media centre possibilities. As it is there is a feeling amongst some of us that the cheap media centre crowd have hijacked the project a little. Once the boards start flowing I think we will be a lot more open and friendly again.

Phoenix RasPi
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:13 am

ProDigit said:


One: to have a CHEAP device that plays back media files (something Apple will never be)

Two: To have something more than a media player (a pc to check mails and browse internet); yet another thing Apple will never be!

Three, I don"t understand why you"re the second person promoting apple TV, if there are so much more, better and cheaper alternatives to it?

And four: I abhor apple and will rather buy an entire store of media players than one single apple product (although their ipad 3 is pretty good, and about the only device I"d buy if they priced it below $399 today; which they will never do, and thus I keep on abhorring, and not buying apple products!)


Apple generally clears out its previous models at pretty decent discounts – the 16 GB iPad 2 is now available for precisely the $399 you specified.  Apple TVs, MacBooks, Mac Minis, etc., have similarly been discounted as each new generation has been introduced, and can play media files in enough of the more common formats that anything can be converted for free to what they support.

If you mean that Apple will never sell its brand-new, state-of-the-art, best-in-class products (for the average person, not necessarily gear-heads) at/below their cost, well, you need to find another planet where the laws of physics are different, or they're years ahead of where we are (we can only hope that forums will have evolved into something less annoying).  Remember when Apple tried the low-profit route, competing in a race to the bottom, and wound up within 90 days of being bankrupt?  Well, they do, and it colors everything they do.  As for their competitors, IBM is no longer in the consumer digital products business, nor is Commodore, nor are dozens of other former manufacturers that have gone bust, been acquired/merged, etc., soon to include HP and, someday, Dell (and everyone still standing is having things made in volume in China, often in the same factories).

There's a big difference between "cheap" and "inexpensive" – it's called "value", as in something worth buying in the first place that isn't going to be obsolete/dead in a month (which "cheap" stuff always winds up being).  Open up two LCD monitors/TVs made with the same screen technology (most are), one from a reputable company and one from a "cheap", no-name supplier (Dell will do, too).  Compare their printed circuit boards and you will find that entire sections of the "cheap" boards are unpopulated – they usually just leave out whole circuits for functions such as overvoltage protection, power regulation, and other long-term reliability factors.  There's a reason why "cheap" products have 90-day warranties, while companies like Apple have at least one-year warranties.  You often really do get what you pay for, it turns out.

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Jessie
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:54 am

People are being rude because this is all covered in the FAQ, Wiki, and with a search of the forum.  Dealing with rude comments is the cost of being lazy.  People have provided you with links... click them and read them.

ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:24 am

It's not that you are easy with using the wiki, or current search engine that the rest of the world is.

I'm coming from sites where people love to debate about topics. No need for bashing users asking questions. it fares you better not to respond if you don't feel like the question needs responding to.

You know where to look, because you've been on this forum a lot longer than I, and have dug deeper. Though the majority of users that will visit this forum are like me, unaware of 'wiki's' and 'search terms', we not all graduated from university, some of us are plain people with simple questions.

The last thing you want to do is bash those people, because those people consist of the majority of the ones buying your product!

There's no such thing as a dumb question; The dumbest question is one not asked.

bbramble
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:41 am

ProDigit said:

Though the majority of users that will visit this forum are like me, unaware of 'wiki's' and 'search terms', we not all graduated from university, some of us are plain people with simple questions.
With respect, university has nothing to do with it, and if you are planning on using a bare board like the Raspberry Pi, you'd damn well better be good at using search engines, wikis, the internet etc, or else what on earth are you doing with it rather than an off-the-shelf boxed consumer product?

ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:56 pm

You are saying only some 'elite' have the right to use this product?
That's ridiculous!

It's a product made for schoolkids!
Don't tell me you need to be an expert at certain things to just USE the product!

I don't like that attitude; it's not very well placed, and unwelcoming to many people who will use this product!

And your opinion is definitely not shared by the majority of people on this forum!

The majority of users will be using this device to do either programming, or a simple and small replacement computer! They will have no need for developing it. Pretty soon the public version will be available, doesn't mean a simple question like video software should be trashed!

Like said, a forum is for all people asking all kinds of questions.

If the only thing you can say is 'use the wiki' or 'we've already explained it in this thread, stop spamming' then you might as well not say anything!
Because the only spammers/trollers on forums are usually the ones with negative attitudes like this; not the average joe asking a question and get trashed from all sides by uncivilized barbarians who don't know a thing of forum courtesy and politeness!

I'm sorry but I had to point that out;I've seen too many people throdding on others in a variety of forums, making sour the whole web with their useless bashing talk!

A forum is for everyone! Everyone has the right to ask questions. Not everyone is obliged to look and search in a forum for their answers, especially if the forum has a simplified search engine searching over thousands of threads, and tens of thousands of posts,and hundreds of pages of wiki.

Everyone wants to save time. everyone has as much right as another to ask a question. Though not everyone has the right to just bash other users.

IMHO this forum will become like eeeuser.com very soon. It started out the same 'Stop trolling, we have it on another thread',and 'use the search'; but soon those people stopped writing that,as the whole of eeeuser.com had over a million of posts,and a few hundred thousands of users from all ages and categories.

Not everyone on this forum is a researcher. Some are just end users who have simple questions. I think it's the forum member's responsibility to welcome these people and treat them nice, not with jerk responses like above!

If your post was in any way valid, I would acknowledge it, but it is not!

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abishur
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:11 pm

Easy does it Prodigit, no one on this thread is using the word troll but you.  We don't think it's trolling to start a new thread that's been answered else where.  People were, however, attempting to answer you question by giving you a link that had all the information you needed (well there was also an apple fan boi in the mix) because we know that it is hard to find the information you desire if you haven't been here long and don't know where to look.  Some of them might have been a little brusk about it, but they mean well.
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

ProDigit
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:55 pm

My apologies for responding rather strong.

Going back on-topic:
It would be nice in the future perhaps, to have some elaboration on the software that will come with the Pi, written in the wiki; perhaps some pics of the GUI of the programs it comes with, and some specs and explanations (eg: like what feats the video player has, what file formats it can read, etc.. etc...)!
I'm sure many users will find them helpful!

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SN
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:08 pm

@abishur I hope you weren"t referring to me as an Apple fan boi I"d be massively upset at that
@prodigit you"re crashing around on here like a Bull in a China shop. you need to cool it somewhat
Steve N – binatone mk4->intellivision->zx81->spectrum->cbm64->cpc6128->520stfm->pc->raspi ?

tufty
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Re: Pi as Video player;software?

Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:03 pm

ProDigit said:


My apologies for responding rather strong.


I don't think anyone's really taken offence.  But yeah, chill.


It would be nice in the future perhaps, to have some elaboration on the software that will come with the Pi


And that's where we came in.  It doesn't come with *any* software.  None.  Nil.  Nada.  There are recommended Linux distributions, and those will come with a certain amount of software preinstalled.  But that software changes as the distributions (and the software packages themselves) change, and you're free to install any package you like (which, of course, is compatible) on top of that.  Distro and package documentation is down to the distro and package producers, not the Foundation, or even the wiki-wonks.

As far as I'm aware, the only piece of software that isn't really "standard fare" is the Foundation's/Broadcom's video player (as seen in the various videos of the Pi in action playing 1080p).  Documentation of this, if it becomes a "standard" part of installations, would be a good idea somewhere.

For the non-recommended and single-purpose distros (remember, the goal is a computer for teaching computer studies, not for playing back videos) such as openELEC, again, documentation is down to them (with, in this case a certain amount of understanding of the hardware restrictions - you probably won't, for example, be able to play back DVDs or MPEG2 streams).

Simon

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