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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:33 pm
by PisRUS
If the relevant parties don't get their act together then I can see the RPi disappointing a great many people and failing as a result.

It'll become nothing more than a joke, and another nail in the coffin for the Brits (who seemingly can't get much right where technology is concerned).

I foresee a rival RPi-alike board making an appearance and trumping the RPi while it's still going through compliance tests/replacing wrongly fitted components, etc.

I'm beginning to think that getting onboard with RS and Farnell wasn't such a good move after all ...... also, the RPi team should have foreseen the interest (didn't they do any market take-up research?) and planned accordingly.

This is turning into a shambles.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:39 pm
by Lynbarn
Lynbarn said:


romilly said:


@GoingPostal13

The Foundation told us about the MagJack problem - not immediately, but as soon as they knew the direct impact.

The Foundation has told us about the compliance delay - not immediately, but as soon as they had a sense of the impact.

If I'm wrong, please spell out the facts.


Actually, RS has stated that they have decided to go for compliance testing, according to their email. Liz (in a comment on the blog) has said that she will post a statement on the blog in response, but Farnell have said nothing - are they going for compliance too, or will they be shipping theirs out uncertified?



Eben's post on the blog answers this: Yes, Farnell are also now awaiting compliance testing before shipping.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:44 pm
by ds18s20
How do we know ANY boards were made at all, other than the first 10?

Anyone has something other than an opinion? No one knows what factory those are allegedly being made at? No one has financial records due to the fiscal delay of obtaining the foundation's records, no one has nothing so sounds like a Ponzi scheme but who is the ponzi?

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:50 pm
by Funar
Lynbarn said:


I've locked the other one (this being the first-born of the two twins), but please read through the posts there as well as continuing to contribute here.


No problem with that at all mate.  It was the right thing to do.

All of this compliance stuff is not a black and white issue at all.  The wonderful thing about standards is there are so many to choose from .  They continually evolve, particularly with harmonising efforts, and products need to comply with the relevant standards at the time of shipment, not at the time of product release.  New versions of standards get released and older ones expire a few years after they get replaced.  It's a bit of a minefield.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:59 pm
by Vindicator
I share your frustration but not sure I would implicate RPF much less two major distributors in a vaporware scheme, they are real if absolutely disorganized at this point.

Ponzi scheme? I think that is a little harsh.

This is probably going to create even more delay but may not be unavoidable due to the amount of interest in this product

Launching a product with nothing physically to sell may have not been the best way and is probably leading to this general feeling of vaporware.

Be patient this will work itself out some how.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:22 am
by johnbeetem
Speaking of compliance testing and product certification, I once got an advert from a company offering training in the subject.  The advert read:


Are you certifiable?


I think compliance testing is enough to make most people certifiable.  I greatly admire engineers who have the patience to do it.

Good luck Eben, and thank you for the blog post.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:14 am
by Skygod
Through all the anticipation of Q3 & Q4 of 2011, to the hype of Feb 29 and now this

I just feel 'let down'.

What happened to the first 10,000?

Where are they and who will be getting them?

When are Farnell and RS likely to start manufacture?

When will the RPi be available for general purchase?


Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:51 am
by jamodio
Compliance testing and certification is not trivial and will take additional time, much more if redesign is needed to meet compliance requirements.

I'm really surprised that for the production volume expected and clear demand this has not been done earlier.

I'm also interested to know what happened to the first 10K, wondering how feasible and cost effective will be to fix the RJ45 hiccup.

I guess the only thing we can have at this time is additional patience since as it looks today we won't be able to get a Raspberry Pi for several months.

-j

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:59 am
by abishur
jamodio said:


Compliance testing and certification is not trivial and will take additional time, much more if redesign is needed to meet compliance requirements.

I'm really surprised that for the production volume expected and clear demand this has not been done earlier.

I'm also interested to know what happened to the first 10K, wondering how feasible and cost effective will be to fix the RJ45 hiccup.

I guess the only thing we can have at this time is additional patience since as it looks today we won't be able to get a Raspberry Pi for several months.

-j



Compliance testing was not done earlier because the initial idea was to label the bare boards as development boards and then do compliance testing on the boards in a case (the educational release boards).  Due to the insanely high demand the distributors were worried and decided to push the compliance test through immediately.

From what I understand the RPF already made sure their board meets compliance standards, but they need to go through the official process.

The RJ45 hiccup should not have cost the RPF anything, the manufacturer made a mistake and they are having to foot the bill to fix that mistake.  I believe the replacing has to be done by hand though, so that might take a bit of extra time.

It has been said that the distributors announced that they have decided to wait until they get their batch in before releasing the first 10k so the boards could be anywhere from at the factory getting the jacks replaced (shipping and customs take time and it's only been 8 business days since the announcement), to sitting at the distributors waiting for their batch to get completed before shipping out.  Regardless, we do know that when the foundation has pertinent news we'll be quickly told about the first batch status.  They don't like keeping us in the dark any more than we like being kept in the dark

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:26 am
by cougarten
my mail says something like: first batch people have already be contacted, which fits this tweets of some guy: https://twitter.com/#!/EWS67016

and this

http://www.raspberrypi.org/for.....20/#p57214

sadly i don't seem to be in there....

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:04 am
by jamodio
Abishur said:


jamodio said:


Compliance testing and certification is not trivial and will take additional time, much more if redesign is needed to meet compliance requirements.

I'm really surprised that for the production volume expected and clear demand this has not been done earlier.

I'm also interested to know what happened to the first 10K, wondering how feasible and cost effective will be to fix the RJ45 hiccup.

I guess the only thing we can have at this time is additional patience since as it looks today we won't be able to get a Raspberry Pi for several months.

-j


Compliance testing was not done earlier because the initial idea was to label the bare boards as development boards and then do compliance testing on the boards in a case (the educational release boards).  Due to the insanely high demand the distributors were worried and decided to push the compliance test through immediately.

From what I understand the RPF already made sure their board meets compliance standards, but they need to go through the official process.

The RJ45 hiccup should not have cost the RPF anything, the manufacturer made a mistake and they are having to foot the bill to fix that mistake.  I believe the replacing has to be done by hand though, so that might take a bit of extra time.

It has been said that the distributors announced that they have decided to wait until they get their batch in before releasing the first 10k so the boards could be anywhere from at the factory getting the jacks replaced (shipping and customs take time and it's only been 8 business days since the announcement), to sitting at the distributors waiting for their batch to get completed before shipping out.  Regardless, we do know that when the foundation has pertinent news we'll be quickly told about the first batch status.  They don't like keeping us in the dark any more than we like being kept in the dark


By any chance are you the spoke person or defense attorney of RPF ?

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:14 am
by Frank Buss
Testing at RS: http://ow.ly/i/vrZY/original

Looks like there are some spikes (you can click on the image for a higher resolution version), but of course, I don't know the reference for the scale, but the engineer doesn't look happy

And the Raspberry Pi under test has pin headers. Does this mean all devices of the first batch will have pin headers?

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:17 am
by jamodio
Frank Buss said:


Testing at RS: http://ow.ly/i/vrZY/original

Looks like there are some spikes (you can click on the image for a higher resolution version), but of course, I don't know the reference for the scale, but the engineer doesn't look happy

And the Raspberry Pi under test has pin headers. Does this mean all devices of the first batch will have pin headers?


Very interesting and great find, and the picture was posted 10+ days ago !!

Hmmm, I don't believe the picture is showing a "compliance" test ... also it looks like it is posing for the picture.

EMC testing requires a different type of equipment and the board connected to a power source and other devices.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:35 am
by Frank Buss
jamodio said:

Very interesting and great find, and the picture was posted 10+ days ago !!
Thanks, I found it in this Tweet from RS Electronics to Raspberry Pi, 11 days ago:

https://twitter.com/#!/RSElectronics/st ... 4578312192

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:35 am
by abishur
jamodio said:


By any chance are you the spoke person or defense attorney of RPF ?



LOL, no.  As it says in my signature I'm just a fan helping out.  I just pay careful attention to the information provided and like helping people get answers to their questions.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:41 am
by jamodio
Frank Buss said:


jamodio said:


Very interesting and great find, and the picture was posted 10+ days ago !!


Thanks, I found it in this Tweet from RS Electronics to Raspberry Pi, 11 days ago:

https://twitter.com/#!/RSElectronics/st ... 4578312192


OK, taking a closer look at the picture that is a Fischer X-Ray Fluorescence Spectrometer for material analysis, probably doing some verification of presence of hazardous materials, not EMC testing.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:42 am
by Skygod
Abishur said:


It has been said that the distributors announced that they have decided to wait until they get their batch in before releasing the first 10k so the boards could be anywhere from at the factory getting the jacks replaced (shipping and customs take time and it's only been 8 business days since the announcement), to sitting at the distributors waiting for their batch to get completed before shipping out.  Regardless, we do know that when the foundation has pertinent news we'll be quickly told about the first batch status.  They don't like keeping us in the dark any more than we like being kept in the dark



The announcement about the RJ45 jack was made by the RPF on the 8th March and said that they had been aware of the problem for 4 days (i.e. 4th March).

How does this equate to 8 'business' days? Do airlines and Chinese factories take a couple of days off every week?

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:47 am
by jamodio
Abishur said:


jamodio said:


By any chance are you the spoke person or defense attorney of RPF ?


LOL, no.  As it says in my signature I'm just a fan helping out.  I just pay careful attention to the information provided and like helping people get answers to their questions.


Then if you are not an "insider" you should avoid providing what could be perceived as "authoritative" answers from RPF. I don't mind that you seem to always react in a defensive mode when nobody is attacking you or RPF and may have a different idea or opinion.

Constructive criticism is healthy and contributes to a better outcome, if RPF screwed up, that's a fact, then lets help them get better.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:10 am
by abishur
Skygod said:


The announcement about the RJ45 jack was made by the RPF on the 8th March and said that they had been aware of the problem for 4 days (i.e. 4th March).

How does this equate to 8 'business' days? Do airlines and Chinese factories take a couple of days off every week?



Oops, nope, I was referring only to the day they announced it, but the first time I mentioned this, it was Wednesday and we were talking about taking at least 2 days after the announcement to run testing to ensure it was electronically sound.  I forgot to mention that and update my math, my bad jamodio said:


Abishur said:


jamodio said:


By any chance are you the spoke person or defense attorney of RPF ?


LOL, no.  As it says in my signature I'm just a fan helping out.  I just pay careful attention to the information provided and like helping people get answers to their questions.


Then if you are not an "insider" you should avoid providing what could be perceived as "authoritative" answers from RPF. I don't mind that you seem to always react in a defensive mode when nobody is attacking you or RPF and may have a different idea or opinion.

Constructive criticism is healthy and contributes to a better outcome, if RPF screwed up, that's a fact, then lets help them get better.



Well that's the thing there.  I do provide authoritative answers.  Everything I mentioned in the post where you asked if I was with the RPF was taken directly from thing they either said or RS has announced.  I give the facts plain and simple and they are quite authoritative, it's the one of the main reasons the RPF chose the admins they did.  We don't just stop squabbles, lock threads, and get rid of spammers.  We make sure to answer questions here on the forum with the information we have so that the RPF doesn't have to (and so they get answered at all, they have their hands full enough as it is without having to worry about answering everything on the forum)

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:25 am
by tbar
Picture was taken March 9th according to: http://regex.info/exif.cgi?img.....2FvrZY.jpg

No GPS-coordinates as the picture was taken with a real camera and not a phone...

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:03 am
by grumpyoldgit
tbar said:


Picture was taken March 9th according to: http://regex.info/exif.cgi?img.....2FvrZY.jpg

No GPS-coordinates as the picture was taken with a real camera and not a phone...


Looks like a beta to me as the SD card holder is sticking out.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:40 pm
by jamodio
Grumpyoldgit said:


Looks like a beta to me as the SD card holder is sticking out.


The actual card is what is sticking out, doesn't look like a holder

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:11 pm
by hippy
ronnylov said:


Even though the initial boards are dev boards I don't think you are allowed to put them on the European market (actually to sell them in Europe) without a CE mark. In order to have a CE mark you should have a declaration of conformity to relevant standards. And if requested by authorities you should be able to show a technical file describing how it is compliant with relevant standards.


There seemed to be some naivety that by throwing the "development board" label at the R-Pi it could simply be sold "as seen". It's more complicated than that as people had noted in previous discussions.

Farnell and RS aren't dodgy retailers where 'anything goes', they have reputations to protect, standards and legislation to comply with. They are the ones who will have to take the flak for anything they sell which isn't as it is expected to be. It should come as no surprise that things have not turned out to be as simple as some may have imagined but it should be no surprise to anyone who has been involved in manufacturing or retail.

Ideally, R-Pi would not have been announced for sale until the licensees had everything in place, compliance testing done, stock to sell, but that's not what happened. We just have to live with that.

It may feel like a negative, more frustrating delay, but it's actually a positive and I find it reassuring that the licensees are making sure everything is right before they put R-Pi in the hands of the people who want them.

Future 'R-Pi accessory packs' and cases will also have to be 'fit for purpose' and compliance tested as well. No one wants a case or power supply which doesn't do its job or bursts into flames after a few days of 24/7 use so it's a necessity to do such things.

When what needs to be done and everything is in place I cannot see that either Farnell or RS will hesitate in getting product out to people.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:28 pm
by Robert_M
hippy said:


...It should come as no surprise that things have not turned out to be as simple as some may have imagined but it should be no surprise to anyone who has been involved in manufacturing or retail.


Exactly this.

Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:22 pm
by nick.mccloud
Even if only 1% of the recipients of the first batch result in some cool stuff to further the aims of the Foundation, that would have brought the project further along than can possibly be imagined.

Delaying the first batch / developer release runs the risk of losing hearts & minds & enthusiasm - or even pushing things too far in to the year to allow a well fleshed out package for the September start of school year.

The currently evolved definition of 'news' is a substantive event - often with hints that there were things going on in the background - in this instance it's clear RS started some compliance investigation 10 days ago. It would help settle us all that this project is moving forward if the news were made smaller bites more frequently.

If we are going to be faced with further substantial delays, why not ask for submissions for project proposals and sell boards to those that can do something useful with them?