User avatar
bob_binz
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:58 pm
Location: Stockport, UK

Re: Sugru alternative

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:44 pm

Firstly, this may belong in the O/T forum instead of here, so if so, please move as required.

I've read quite a lot about some "stuff" called sugru on this forum, something I'd never heard of until the coming of Pi.  Whilst researching it and its availability, I came across this:

http://www.instructables.com/i.....ubstitute/

Has anybody had a go, and is it any good as a substitute?  Would you trust it as a Pi holder?

BBz

rasbeer
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:35 am

Re: Sugru alternative

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:50 pm

bob_binz said:


Has anybody had a go, and is it any good as a substitute?  Would you trust it as a Pi holder?


Interesting stuff, but isn't it soft? How would you use it as a pi-case?

User avatar
mkopack
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:19 pm

You wouldn't use it as the case... You'd use it to help hold a pi inside a case...

Look at Sugru to get an idea what this stuff could do...

Interesting that it's that easy to make. Might have to do some experiments this weekend!

texy
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5157
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 am
Location: Berkshire, England

Re: Sugru alternative

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:53 pm

For those of us in the UK corn starch is the same as corn flour. More difficult is knowing the real or prefered "silicone caulk" ?

T.
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

User avatar
mkopack
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:21 am

texy said:


For those of us in the UK corn starch is the same as corn flour. More difficult is knowing the real or prefered "silicone caulk" ?

T.



Yeah, that's going to be the fun part - trying to find the right stuff.. Not like the store will let you cut open the tip and punch the hole to get the caulk flowing so you can sniff it!

User avatar
bob_binz
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:58 pm
Location: Stockport, UK

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:16 am

Yeah, based on the comment about acetic acid smell, I would go for bathroom sealant - I don"t remember builder"s caulk smelling that much. Regarding the corn starch, I think somebody raised that in the comments and yes, it"s cornflour to us.

If anyone makes any, do share the experience.

BBz

rasbeer
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:35 am

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:22 am

I just sniffed an (already) opened silicone caulk tube & the vinegar smell nearly took my head off.

User avatar
bob_binz
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:58 pm
Location: Stockport, UK

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:44 am

Ahh ok. That smell always reminds me of when they resealed all the windows in primary school and stank the whole place out!

BBz

texy
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5157
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 am
Location: Berkshire, England

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:54 am

I just sniffed an (already) opened silicone caulk tube & the vinegar smell nearly took my head off.

Where on the world are you? Can you take a pic of the tube, or is it actually called silicone caulk?
T.
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

rasbeer
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:35 am

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:00 am


Where on the world are you? Can you take a pic of the tube, or is it actually called silicone caulk?


I'm in a small country far far away, it was a local brand, so this wouldn't help anyone

But I'm sure some Blightian's with open tubes of silicon caulk will come out of the woodwork...

User avatar
scep
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:53 am

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:40 am

I made some a while back - it's great stuff (even more fun than making silly putty out of borax and PVA glue ) and whilst it might not be as "perfect" as sugru, you can make a shed load for a few quid.

Don't know about using it as a mount for the Pi though as a) acetoxy caulk releases acetic acid as it cures (might be OK if you mould separately from the Pi and use once cured?* ) and b) it doesn't stick to some plastics like polythene (though sugru doesn't either IIRC).

*No idea how long it offgases for. Also no idea of if neutral caulks work well - or their effect on PCBs - asI've only used cheap a acetoxy one.

User avatar
walney
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:57 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:20 pm

Is it really wise to use this homegrown alternative? Silicone caulk can give of a hell of a lot of acetic acid, and I'm not convinced that it's such a good idea having an essentially corrosive chemical in contact with a circuit board.

User avatar
scep
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:53 am

Re: Sugru alternative

Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:02 pm

walney said:


Is it really wise to use this homegrown alternative? Silicone caulk can give of a hell of a lot of acetic acid...


The neutral stuff doesn't - and should work the same if it's moisture cured. And even acetoxy caulk should be fine when it's gone off.

I for one like the homegrown vibe to it (not to mention the cost ), it's very Pi-esque.




digital_addict
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:40 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:43 am

Just made a batch with 50/50 cornflour and food grade high modulus silicone sealant. It does feel very soft. I also stuck a small micro controller board in it. When I get chance, I'll have a word with my eldest, he designs this stuff for the construction and any other kind of industry. I showed him sugru once, but he didn't seem very impressed. The hazard notification reads irritant, so use in a well ventilated area, and don't poke it in your eyes. Will report back when it feels anything like cured.

Phil Spiegel
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:17 am
Contact: Website

Re: Sugru alternative

Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:11 am

What is wrong with using foam blocks (possibly with self-adhesive surfaces) to support the Rpi in position? or rubber blocks.

digital_addict
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:40 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:58 pm

After 13 hours the home-made sugru has set well, the circuit board (no green lacquer) shows no ill effects and was not stuck to the product. That's the good news.

After mixing, I found it impossible to tool or shape, all it wanted to do was slump. Using some kind of mold and casting it may be a better option, but has it's own set of problems.



@ Phil Spiegel

I would have to go in your general direction, maybe draught excluder and the plastic spacers you can get from double glazing suppliers (they go between the window and the frame as an expansion joint). My preference at the moment would be sticky-backed Velcro cut so the sd card is above ground and stick the board wherever it is convenient. Or a box made for the job.

SANGER_A2
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:39 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Sugru alternative

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:27 am

I'm sure different "silicone caulks" and different flour/caulk mixes can be used to produce different results so this idea isn't dead. In another post, someone said that you can use clingfilm around whatever you don't want the sugru to stick to, so that may be an option with this homemade stuff too... Then you can just make mounts for the board that won't be permanent.

Smartybones
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:13 am

for many of you who are quite often making enclosures for projects, or even use products like sugru on a regular basis, and you are quite handy on the DIY front, they you may want to consider putting together a RepRap.

a RepRap is a rapid prototyping machine. It literally "prints" a 3d design you have constructed on CAD. It take the design and slices it in to very thin layers and builds up each layer with melted plastic.

The machine and software is all open Source, you are free to build your own if you like. With the exception of the electronics, something like 90% of the reprap can be made on a reprap. From scratch, to fully constructed a reprap will cost you about £300 to £500 to build.http://www.raspberrypi.org/for.....ive/page-2

once you are all set up, making something is quite simple. Design your piece on the CAD package and away you go.  it can take some time to print a large item. but you will find yourself making all sorts of little brackets and fittings for all sorts of things around the home. I have made many things including replacement parts for the vacuum cleaner to making many of the parts for the reprap to make improvements.

people have modified the reprap and have converted them to print in Porcelain but my favourite has to be a conversion to print in chocolate !!

you can read more here and here

digital_addict
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:40 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:47 pm

@ SANGER_A2

Just made a batch of silicone and china clay. This does not have as greater slump problem as the previous mix and is slightly easier to form, but un-cured, it is still very floppy but I dusted the product to take the stickiness away on the outer surfaces. The need for cling film was proposed by Prometheus but having played with this stuff I don't see the need. The 3 big questions I see are, do you require pillars to hold some kind of top/roof? Blocks to lift the board off the deck? Or, female slide rails? To suspend the board. The problem with rails is that there isn't much space to put them with all the sockets being along all four sides of the board.



@ smartybones

What can I say, green with envy just doesn't cut the mustard. Being disabled and living on a very small income the cost to buy and run is totally prohibitive, but what a machine to play with. I did here that they had one on display in Bradford a short while ago but not heard of any recently.

Smartybones
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:00 am

digital_addict said:

@ smartybones
 Being disabled and living on a very small income the cost to buy and run is totally prohibitive,



you would be surprised how little it does cost to build.

It took me a while to build due to my own disabilities and fiscal constraints. But, as it takes time to build each section, I just bought one or two parts per month as and when I was ready to continue on with the build. I think the most I have spent out in one go was £30.

As for running costs, yes, the plastic used can be quite expensive, but what a lot of reprap owners do to cover running costs is make and sell reprap parts that they make to others that are currently building a machine. Their is also a market to produce and sell small custom made components to hobbyists.

You would also be very surprised once people have seen it work and know what it can do, will come back and ask you, "can you make me a blah blah blah....", the costs are soon covered ! Myself I have put a stop to it now I have a large supply of plastic in reserve as it was getting silly. I was spending more time making stuff for others and not getting on with my own projects.

texy
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5157
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 am
Location: Berkshire, England

Re: Sugru alternative

Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:54 am

Hi Smartybones - that looks fantastic!

This could be a very useful interesting project whilst I wait for my Pi to arrive. Could you pass on links to the suppliers you used - are there any UK based ones?

So the raw plastic is expensive - how much would say a typical Pi case use/cast, do you think? Can you recycle 'used' plastic?

I,m thinking small is beautiful - the 'huxley' looks ideal.

Which version did you go for?

Time for some research!

Texy
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

Smartybones
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:44 am

it was the Original Mendel i have built, but have made some modifications on the way.

most of the parts were bought of ebay., Not may parts are available for the original mendel any more as its quite an old machine now. I will probably make a new one over the next year or so.

I replaced some of the parts from the original design, mainly for a smoother and  lower friction on the moving parts the print head is carried on. it prints faster and is quieter.

the plastic used for printing has dropped in price these days as more and more people have a reprap or similar machines. you can get around 2KG x 3mm of ABS filament thread for around £20, and you can get different colours these days too.

with careful design, you can keep your designs very lightweight. use hollow walls with cross supports to keep strength... I think a case for a raspberry would come in at between 100g and 200g (£1 to £2).

The ABS plastic can be recycled. but its not something you can do at home. Not unless you build yourself an ABS plastic extrusion machine.

texy
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5157
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 am
Location: Berkshire, England

Re: Sugru alternative

Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:29 pm

Thanks. I"d like to source as much as possible locally to keep costs down, but where can you get filament as cheap as that?
T.
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

Smartybones
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Sugru alternative

Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:19 pm

texy said:


but where can you get filament as cheap as that?
T.



I picked some up a while back from a computer fair, someone was selling reprap parts. I have a card somewhere, I'll pass you on his email address if i can find it.

you can get it quite cheap if you look around on the inter-webs, Its just the same stuff that is used for plastic welding, but you have to buy in bulk like minimum orders of 20kg to get a real bargain. When you first finish your reprap, I would strongly recommend buying a large amount of filament, your going to be making all sorts of things, learning what works and what does not, your going to go through a lot of material. I wouldn't bother with different colours. its easy enough to paint the standard white ABS with acrylic spray paint if you need to.colour.

You may find some places selling 3mm ABS filament, but if it has been fast extruded its manufacturing tolerance may be quite poor. you really need a tolerance of no more than ± 0.1mm...

Try to avoid recycled ABS, it can contain small particles of dirt within the filament which will build up and cause you no end of printing issues.

All that said, the magic of printing a object you have designed is a magical event the first time you do it. You can watch all those videos of stuff being printed as much as you like, but when you do it for yourself is an altogether different experience..

texy
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5157
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 am
Location: Berkshire, England

Re: Sugru alternative

Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:58 pm

Thanks again. We are vering off topic, though I will add that I"ve just seen a uk kit price for the Huxley @ £625 - ouch
Think I"ll need to source cheaper bits.
T.
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

Return to “General discussion”