bitplane
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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:48 pm

I'd just like to pipe up and ask if it is really necessary to have a trademark symbol as part of the logo?

Wikipedia's logo is a trademark, as is the Firefox brand, but if you start putting a trademark symbol in your logo like that it's inevitable that people will start referring to the project it as RaspberryPi^TM, which won't do the project any good PR when it comes to openness.

IMO it would be better to just mention that it's a registered trademark in a legal/licensing page, rather than being so in-your-face about it.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:34 pm

If it stops douchebags from profiteering off the back of a charity, then yes it is.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:44 pm

bitplane said:


I'd just like to pipe up and ask if it is really necessary to have a trademark symbol as part of the logo?

Wikipedia's logo is a trademark, as is the Firefox brand, but if you start putting a trademark symbol in your logo like that it's inevitable that people will start referring to the project it as RaspberryPi^TM, which won't do the project any good PR when it comes to openness.

IMO it would be better to just mention that it's a registered trademark in a legal/licensing page, rather than being so in-your-face about it.


Having it in a legal page didn't stop people ripping off the logo and using it on Ebay etc. Unfortunately, in your face stuff is all some people understand.
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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:47 pm

Hey Look! Firefox does have an (R) on it!

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/f.....nel-logos/

I believe the inclusion of the mark on the logo is so those viewing and using the logo don't have the legal argument of "I didn't realise it was trademarked." in the rare event they wish to exploit it for profit and fame.

You may not see the Raspi mark with the (TM)/(R) on it everywhere, but while the mark is being established it will probably appear more often than not I expect.

This may change once things have settled down and few people are trying to make novelty eggcups with the logo.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:23 pm

guru said:


Hey Look! Firefox does have an (R) on it!

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/f.....nel-logos/


Hmm fair comment, but it's not plastered on their main website, or most images.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:38 pm

bitplane said:


guru said:


Hey Look! Firefox does have an (R) on it!

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/f.....nel-logos/


Hmm fair comment, but it's not plastered on their main website, or most images.


That's true, and probably due to Firefox being well established now.

While the Raspi mark is being established it will have (TM) or (R) on it more often than not, I expect.

As a side-note, I can only seem to find Wikipedia registered as a word mark, but not the globe.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:01 pm

bitplane said:


I'd just like to pipe up and ask if it is really necessary to have a trademark symbol as part of the logo?


No. But it does make it clear that the image is used as a trade mark which could be useful if the Foundation pursued a 'passing off' claim against someone using the logo for that purpose.

Being trade marked doesn't protect the logo from being copied and used elsewhere when that doesn't amount to 'passing off' but unauthorised use would fall under copyright. It would depend on jurisdiction whether such use could fall under 'fair use' and similar.

It's different if it's a registered trade mark but as it says "TM" it seems it isn't registered.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:46 pm

bitplane said:


Wikipedia's logo is a trademark, as is the Firefox brand, but if you start putting a trademark symbol in your logo like that it's inevitable that people will start referring to the project it as RaspberryPi^TM, which won't do the project any good PR when it comes to openness.



I hope you don't mind me asking, but why would this affect the PR or openness?

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:13 am

hippy said:


bitplane said:


I'd just like to pipe up and ask if it is really necessary to have a trademark symbol as part of the logo?


No. But it does make it clear that the image is used as a trade mark which could be useful if the Foundation pursued a 'passing off' claim against someone using the logo for that purpose.

Being trade marked doesn't protect the logo from being copied and used elsewhere when that doesn't amount to 'passing off' but unauthorised use would fall under copyright. It would depend on jurisdiction whether such use could fall under 'fair use' and similar.

It's different if it's a registered trade mark but as it says "TM" it seems it isn't registered.



It IS registered as a trademark: see HERE

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:46 am

Lynbarn said:


hippy said:


bitplane said:


I'd just like to pipe up and ask if it is really necessary to have a trademark symbol as part of the logo?


No. But it does make it clear that the image is used as a trade mark which could be useful if the Foundation pursued a 'passing off' claim against someone using the logo for that purpose.

Being trade marked doesn't protect the logo from being copied and used elsewhere when that doesn't amount to 'passing off' but unauthorised use would fall under copyright. It would depend on jurisdiction whether such use could fall under 'fair use' and similar.

It's different if it's a registered trade mark but as it says "TM" it seems it isn't registered.


It IS registered as a trademark: see HERE


Looking at that, you can just imagine a nice big soft squishy raspberry toy.
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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:51 am

Lynbarn said:

It IS registered as a trademark: see HERE
It seems the appropriate thing to do would be to replace the logo's (TM) with (R) so it better reflects its registered status.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:17 am

hippy said:


It seems the appropriate thing to do would be to replace the logo's (TM) with (R) so it better reflects its registered status.



I believe the problem would then be that it would need to registered in each country that it is being sold. RS and Farnell would not be able to display (R) logos on their US websites until the US Patent & Trademark Office approved the registration, whereas (TM ) can be used anywhere.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:41 am

Wether its required or not is not important. I think its a good reminder to people that might misuse the logo, of its status.  That reminds me, time to check for eBay scalpers!
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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:44 am

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Not sure about how legit this is...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rasp.....4163c4d052
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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:11 pm

Jongoleur said:


Hmmmmmmmmmm

Not sure about how legit this is…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rasp.....4163c4d052


it looks remarkably like the large stickers that the foundation did although possibly not as it looks like the black on the left is a bit off. If it's one of the foundation produced stickers then it's a bit of a cheek but not really anything you can do as you can sell your own property if it's one he/she/they/it made then time to slap them with a cold wet trout.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:34 pm

Well just to make sure, I've sent an email to the lister and reported it to Ebay.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Skygod said:


Well just to make sure, I've sent an email to the lister and reported it to Ebay.


Surely it would have been better to email the lister then, depending on the reply, report it to eBay. what happened to the presumption of innocent until proven guilty ?

Just because some people may not like what others do doesn't automatically make it illegal or even wrong.

I'm all for curtailing illegality, fraud, misrepresentation and the like, but I don't support witch hunts

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:10 pm

If the lister had stated that some proceeds from the sale would go to the Foundation, then I'd have no issue, but the listing has a registered trademark as its 'hook'.

No; get it off Ebay and only have authorised resellers that are giving back to the foundation IMHO.

Registered Trademarks are registered for a reason. This guy is just looking to profit from the demand without stating that he's giving anything back.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:30 pm

Step back, I think we sometimes have a tendency to be over protective.  If he's just selling a sticker he bought from the foundation, is there a problem?

If he IS printing new stickers for profit, then hassle him, otherwise leave him.  There's much worse going on in the world.

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:41 pm

He has more than 10 to sell, so he's not reselling the original stickers.  The colours on his 'stickers' are not the same as those sold through the website.

He's a Delboy that needs to be pulled up

(If he states that some proceeds go to the Foundation, I would not have an issue)

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:13 pm

When it first apperared I sent an email to [email protected] ... but of course she is away, so I re sent it to a Mod who had been discussing copyright etc ... on the basis that it needed to be someone who could formally represent the Foundation making the complaint / knowing the arrangement if one had been made .. but they may equally have felt they were not in a position to contact Ebay???.

Its noticeable that other Rpi sales objects are now using a graphic of a fruity raspberry

(is that a contradiction - another word being redefined inthe english language?

Was it called a fruit in the middle ages, before biologists of today classified it as something else?)

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Re: RaspberryPi(TM)(C)(R)

Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:38 am

Ravenous said:


Step back, I think we sometimes have a tendency to be over protective.  If he's just selling a sticker he bought from the foundation, is there a problem?

If he IS printing new stickers for profit, then hassle him, otherwise leave him.  There's much worse going on in the world.


If you look at the size of the sticker, it is apparent that it is not the original as these were around 10mm x 10mm (I know, because I own two).

There is no mention of any proceeds going to the RPF, so yes I have 'hassled' him. What he's doing is illegal; he has not answered my question and Ebay have not taken down the listing.

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