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zag
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:35 am

Forgot to say, mine got delayed until May as well.

I made my order pretty much as soon as the website was available

Did the entire 10k batch get delayed?
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pandapi
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:38 am

i can't help but think that it would have been better to take pre-orders (and money) from the beginning and go to the manufacturer with a much bigger order big enough to fulfil all the pre-orders.

Pre-orders were soundly ruled out though for some reason, and now its a right mess and unfortunately not great publicity.

adlambert

Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:47 am

pandapi said:


i can't help but think that it would have been better to take pre-orders (and money) from the beginning and go to the manufacturer with a much bigger order big enough to fulfil all the pre-orders.


That is exactly what the two vendors are doing.

RobParker
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:52 am

I ordered fairly late in the day and now I'm worrying because I haven't received a revised delivery schedule. Maybe they've just decided that I won't be getting it until 2013 so can wait for the email :p

Statler
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:55 am

I think a lot of people (myself included) assumed from publicity that there were already stock levels available to purchase. It looks very unlikely that this was the case and the suppliers are taking orders to put into production.

It's just a case of poor communication.

pandapi
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:57 am

adlambert said:


pandapi said:


i can't help but think that it would have been better to take pre-orders (and money) from the beginning and go to the manufacturer with a much bigger order big enough to fulfil all the pre-orders.


That is exactly what the two vendors are doing.



adlambert said:


pandapi said:


i can't help but think that it would have been better to take pre-orders (and money) from the beginning and go to the manufacturer with a much bigger order big enough to fulfil all the pre-orders.


That is exactly what the two vendors are doing.


That is what they are doing NOW yes. But if pre-orders were take pre-29th feb then the initial batch could have been a lot larger than 10,000 which it seems has barely scratched the surface.

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RaTTuS
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:26 am

as a charity I don't think they can take pre-orders the distributers can though
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:26 am

Statler said:


I think a lot of people (myself included) assumed from publicity that there were already stock levels available to purchase. It looks very unlikely that this was the case and the suppliers are taking orders to put into production.

It's just a case of poor communication.


Not poor communication on the part of Raspberry Pi. On the static page that they put up on the morning of release (the one that directed people to RS and Farnell) it quite clearly stated that the finished boards had still not arrived in the UK.

pandapi
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:38 am

Its pretty much a given that Farnell must have had _some_ idea of how many units they could produce in X amount of time prior to launch. It would be daft if they didn't.

So why now, a week after "launch" are early orders being pushed out further?

I'm not a large company like farnell and i had the foresight to see this was going to get lots of orders. In fact, the foundation TOLD farnell they would get lots of interest. If i had been in charge i would have made sure i knew what the max output from the factory was, what the shipping time was so i could give consumers a decent-ish date.

I'll let them off the website problems. They weren't set up for the demand and they can't be expected to upgrade their whole system for what is pretty much a one-off. However, the manufacturing and shipping of components should be bread and butter for them.

You don't even have to provide a shipping date straight away. Why not wait a week and give everyone 14th May as their first date rather than sending march->april->may and annoying people?

I wasn't going to try on "launch" day for the 10,000. There was little chance of getting one. However, with 2 large distributors with financial clout and buying power behind them i went ahead and ordered. If i'd known it would take them 3 months (and who knows how much longer) to get the product to me then i probably wouldn't have bothered.

pandapi
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:50 am

adlambert said:


Statler said:


I think a lot of people (myself included) assumed from publicity that there were already stock levels available to purchase. It looks very unlikely that this was the case and the suppliers are taking orders to put into production.

It's just a case of poor communication.


Not poor communication on the part of Raspberry Pi. On the static page that they put up on the morning of release (the one that directed people to RS and Farnell) it quite clearly stated that the finished boards had still not arrived in the UK.


Its not poor communication fro RPi, but they got into bed with farnell and RS and they have got to expect to be questioned on it.

Its been a week since launch and i've still not seen anything from the foundation on the whereabouts of the initial batch. I'm not getting one, but it would be nice if we knew _someone_ was getting one. Where are they? They were flying over before the 29th feb apparently. Long plane journey.

Why can we not have an update on the number of orders placed (an easy thing to find out) and the production rate? We could work out our own worst case delivery date then.

The only updates we've had on the blog since "launch" are (paraphrasing) "phew, what a week" and "arch linux available" (no use to anyone if no boards are out there)

remondo
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:52 am

I have not received anything from Farnell so I assume my delivery date is still 16th April 2014.

But in all seriousness I have to agree with comments stating the Raspberry Pi foundation have definitely wasted the great press coverage they received on launch day. Telling the world you have a great product but not being able to deliver it is (evidently) a sure fire way to annoy and potentially lose customers while casuing mass scepticism. It seems the distributors have underestimated how many units they can produce in such a short time judging by the delivery dates being pushed back.

I also think that passing the blame onto RS and Farnell is an easy way out for RPi staff. I understand that the current situation is now beyond the control of the foundation but there is a degree of terrible foresight on RPi's part. The device should not have been launched before it was ready for distribution. The 'register you interest' messages that are now being used by both distributors should have been used in preparation for distribution to guage the amount of interest in the RPi. It seems the latter stages of the launch process were rushed when really pushing the release date back would have caused less anger had it been explained properly.

mole125
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:53 am

pandapi said:


Its pretty much a given that Farnell must have had _some_ idea of how many units they could produce in X amount of time prior to launch. It would be daft if they didn't.

So why now, a week after "launch" are early orders being pushed out further?

I'm not a large company like farnell and i had the foresight to see this was going to get lots of orders. In fact, the foundation TOLD farnell they would get lots of interest. If i had been in charge i would have made sure i knew what the max output from the factory was, what the shipping time was so i could give consumers a decent-ish date.


Would you like to define the size of lots? selling 10000 development boards within a week is likely to be defined as lots by most manufacturers and distributors, let alone within an hour. Or is lots 20 thousand? 50 thousand? The foundation would have told Farnell that they were expecting lots to be sold, they may even have quantified the figure with saying that there are one hundred thousand people on the mailing list but it's clear the management at Farnell probably took this with a pinch of salt.

They probably went to their component distributors asked what is the lead time for 20000 of XYZ component and were given an answer (3 days lets say). They went to the factory and asked when the next opening for a production run of 20000 units was and were told in 1 weeks time. They therefore enter a 3 week lead time for shipping more boards.

They open their site and quickly find out that they need to order 100 000 not 20 000, they go back to their component distributor and get told that for 100 000 it would be a 2 week lead time as they need to make them. They go to their factory and get told the next opening for a batch that size with that expected days is 3 weeks time. They go back to their component distributor to place the order and get told that sorry they've just had a large order for exactly the same set of components from another customer (RS) and so the lead time is now 3 weeks and they now don't have any available in stock at all...

pandapi
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:58 am

I'm pretty sure farnell could ask the factory of whoever for more than 1 figure.

"Dear mr factory. Give use some times for:

20,000

100,000

500,000

1,000,000.

Thanks,

Farnell"

Simple.

Wait a week, see how many got ordered and give everyone a date then rather than seeing your delivery date getting further and further away.

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meltwater
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:16 am

RaTTuS said:


as a charity I don't think they can take pre-orders the distributers can though


That and what would the foundation do with 100,000 pre-orders which they wouldn't have been able to deliver?  Even if they took money upfront...it'd still take a lot of time to produce them.

As said above, it is not just a case of going to one place and saying, "Jimbo, put me down for 100k ASAP".   If they hadn't estimated a shipping time you'd moan when you got one (particularly if you waited 2-3 weeks to find out it is in May...).

Of course it looks a mess from our point of view, but it is not unusual when dealing with such companies (hence why they don't normally deal directly with public orders).

I would be interested to know where the issues are coming from, i.e. factory limits, supply chain etc, however the likes of Farnel and RS aren't likely to give that information out (it's just not how they do it).

The foundation is quite different on that, which is why they get problems when they need to steer the ship in a different direction from time to time.
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:22 am

Hmmm, strange... I didn't get any new emails. I wonder if Farnell has forgotten about me altogether...

I assume my estimated delivery date is still 23rd of april.
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adlambert

Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:25 am

Set yourselves up with an Emulator and start playing today.

The real thing will be here soon enough and we are blessed that it will. I see nothing to complain about here.

Seriously, nobody got hurt.

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:26 am

Mine has also been pushed out a month to mid-May, very disappointed.
I might order from RS (as well) as they've emailed me to indicate my interest made it through the DDOSing.

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:32 am

I'm afraid my enthusiasm for this project is beginning to evaporate as I suspect is the case for a number of others.

The idea is good but the execution has seemingly been fraught with problems. I appreciate that the foundation consists of a small group of people mostly doing this in their own time while having day jobs so we can expect some bumps in the road along the way but it is just getting worse as each day passes.

If anything is said that is in the slightest bit critical it is jumped on as trolling. While I'm sure there are some selfish people who are just complaining because they didn't get a new toy to play with there are lots of people who are keen to see the project succeed and are concerned about the potential damage this situation could be doing to that. The publicity machine has been in overdrive but the arrangements were not in place to supply the boards and now it looks like people will not get them for 3 months.

I suspect that part of the delay is that Farnell & RS underestimated the cost of production as the foundation didn't design the board with a profit margin in mind so the fixed sale price probably means that the profit margin for them is no more than $1 so they can't send them air freight from china as they would start loosing money on them. I expect that Farnell & RS agreed to take the product at a fixed price with virtually no profit in the expectation of generating new customers and making their profit from selling accessories such as USB hubs and memory cards as is clear from the farnell site promoting bundles. But the reality is most people will have these items lying about from old computers and cameras or will be buying them cheap from ebay or one of the discount on-line sellers for a fraction of the price farnell offer.

The licensed manufacture idea is a good one in principle as in theory these large companies have the buying power and contacts to get the boards made that the foundation simply doesn't have. It seems however in hindsight that they needed to have had these arrangements in place and production started before the launch.

One thing that I have found particularly difficult with the foundation is that I have sent emails and tweet messages over the last 3 months and not got a single reply, if they don't have enough time to deal with messages why not accept the offers of help that have been made ?

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:36 am

Statler said:


I think a lot of people (myself included) assumed from publicity that there were already stock levels available to purchase. It looks very unlikely that this was the case and the suppliers are taking orders to put into production.

It's just a case of poor communication.


There were 10,000 ready-made units to purchase, albeit still on their way from manufacture to distribution. The "problem" is that demand far, far, far exceeded supply. So the vast majority of people didn't manage to get one of those units, and have to make till more are made.

Seriously, why are some people getting all upset about this (not aimed at the quoted poster) ? The manufacturers are going to have to massively ramp-up production, and that's not something they can do at the flick of a switch (they need all the components, they need space to make all the units, people to oversee that,  production equipment, etc, etc).

In the medium-term this is a fantastic success for Raspberry Pi. The more units out there, the more amazing things I'm sure people will do with it. It's just that we have a short-term issue of waiting till production ramps up. Isn't this something worth waiting for, after how long the project has been in planning ?

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:42 am

You are right. They are worth waiting for. And the success is fantastic. Although some of us have been waiting for over a year and are getting a bit bored with waiting. So it's understandable that frustration is now bubbling up to the surface.

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:59 am

steviewevie said:


Seriously, why are some people getting all upset about this ?


Well said...

People should well remember that all parts of the supply chain will have lead times.  Farnell/RS had an indication that there would be "lots" of interest, but no real indication as to what "lots" was.  Similar can be said of Broadcom for the SoC, Hynix for the RAM, SMSC for the LAN controller, and the suppliers of all the other bits.

None of those manufacturers are likely to have millions of the required components sat on the shelf, on the off chance that someone's going to come along and place a big order.  They'll more than likely be made to order - and that will take time when you're talking big numbers...  Time that is now filtering through to Farnell chain.

Yes with hindsight, the Foundation could probably have done things differently in the way the launch was announced, but I very much doubt it would have had any effect on the lead times that Farnell are quoting...

Regards,

Rob

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:21 pm

Darren said:

The licensed manufacture idea is a good one in principle as in theory these large companies have the buying power and contacts to get the boards made that the foundation simply doesn't have. It seems however in hindsight that they needed to have had these arrangements in place and production started before the launch.
Licensed manufacturing is the only practical way to meet demand and the Foundation had recognised that.

The execution of the launch and appointing licensees could have been better, it does seem to have been rushed without enough time given to iron out problems which could be predicted to arise, but we need to put that behind us and make what we now have work smoothly.

There were always going to be issues with ramping up supply to meet demand and there's now an infrastructure in place to provide that. Problems we see now should be resolved soon, or resolve themselves, and in a few months R-Pi should become like any other component RS and Farnell stock; go to the site, find it, order it, have it delivered. If on back order they'll be delivered as soon as stock is received.

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:30 pm

My thoughts, based on a lot of assumptions :

1..I,m not entirely sure it was ever officially mentioned that there are/were 10,000 units actually on route to the UK, but if it is true then surely it is known when that slow boat arrives and therefore when the units arrive to either/or RS/Farnell for there own distribution outlets.

2..When online orders were taken, confirmed and shipment dates given, surely those order confirmations were based on first come first served until that initial shipment sold out, and the delivery dates based on arrival of said slow boat, so.....

why would be shipment date move by so much a margin, and in some cases, more than once?

What the suppliers could of done is made it clear that the order has been met with the initial shipment, or not.

Like it or lump it, we just gotta wait....in due time people will let us know when there Pi's arrive at there doorstep.

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remondo
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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:55 pm

Ok cancel my previous comment, just received an email stating delivery will be 14th May- moved from 16th April. Quite tempted to cancel, I'm not really fussed anymore.

The original batch was 10,000 as quoted by RPi on their blog. I think there may have been issues with people ordering multiple devices as the quantity field was still available on the Farnell site.

Poor foresight and underestimations are likely to blame and as a result lead times will have been affected.

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Re: Farnell order moved out!

Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:10 pm

hippy said:


Licensed manufacturing is the only practical way to meet demand and the Foundation had recognised that.

The execution of the launch and appointing licensees could have been better, it does seem to have been rushed without enough time given to iron out problems which could be predicted to arise, but we need to put that behind us and make what we now have work smoothly.

There were always going to be issues with ramping up supply to meet demand and there's now an infrastructure in place to provide that. Problems we see now should be resolved soon, or resolve themselves, and in a few months R-Pi should become like any other component RS and Farnell stock; go to the site, find it, order it, have it delivered. If on back order they'll be delivered as soon as stock is received.



Where's the "like" button?

robleady said:


Yes with hindsight, the Foundation could probably have done things differently in the way the launch was announced, but I very much doubt it would have had any effect on the lead times that Farnell are quoting…


Indeed, all it would have achieved is a launch in May, with probably even less chance of getting a unit.  At some point you just have to go for it and see where the chips fall, if you take too long the window of opportunity will close on you before you've had a chance.
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