lmx
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:03 am

Hi,

i think that the info around ,about setting the sd cards for RaspBerry PI, is poorly organized...

I have used fdisk to set up my sd card, so i have this configuration:

i am using a 8gb microsd card with  7960788992 bytes of data.

heads:255

sectors:63

cylinder:967

so i create 2 partitions one with msdos format and another with ext3, and after that i write the work done to the sdcard...

I'm unable to mount the two partitions...and i don't now why?!! :S

it don't recognize them :S ...

well if everything is ok, i download the debian image and write it to what partition???msdos or ext3??there is a lack of information about that...

writing in to, is easy, but i dont now in what partinion i have to put debian image...

in msdos(/boot???) or in /ext3?but in this case why i need a msdos partition???

Sorry for the English, and thanks in advance

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Vindicator
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:00 am

TuxD3v said:


well if everything is ok, i download the Debian image and write it to what partition???ms dos or ext3??there is a lack of information about that...

writing in to, is easy, but i don't now in what partition i have to put Debian image...

in ms-dos(/boot???) or in /ext3?but in this case why i need a ms-dos partition???

Sorry for the English, and thanks in advance



It is an image it will make the needed partitions when implemented correctly.

I refer you to the Wiki  http://elinux.org/RPi_Easy_SD_Card_Setup

Pay attention to the warnings as you can overwrite your drive by not selecting the correct source and destinations.

I used the windows method as it is easy and very safe.

The Linux method works fine also but again be careful !!!!

Yes it it kind of unorganized but the info is there LOL

The beginner link on the Wiki tab should take you too the basic setup not the advanced setup.
If you are more worried about ,spelling, punctuation or grammar you have probably already missed the point so please just move on.

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Chromatix
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:54 am

Additionally, the Fedora version should come as a foolproof installer for Windows users.

The disk images currently available are more like CD images, which are "burned" to a disc (or card) in their entirety.  Starting with partitioning and formatting is the old way of going about things, which is only still relevant for advanced distros like Gentoo which assume you already know what you're doing.
The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

robleady
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:38 am

TuxD3v said:


so i create 2 partitions one with msdos format and another with ext3, and after that i write the work done to the sdcard...

I'm unable to mount the two partitions...and i don't now why?!! :S


Hi, you can probably get the answers from the previous replies, but at a technical level, the reason you can't mount the two partitions is because fdisk doesn't put a file system onto the partition...

Regards,

Rob

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Davespice
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:42 am

My blog has some helpful info on this too.

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Tass
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:47 am

@TuxD3v - have you tried searching the forums?  I know of several very good posts outlining exactly how you go about creating an SD Card, and none of them mention the method you're trying to use?

lmx
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:45 pm

@Tass

yes o course, i have tried several things...but none appears to me to explain the process only a windows process that i don't use, and maybe the problem have todo with it...

we are talking about a board that is for linux, but in the help sites, appears information for windows :S ...

lmx
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:58 pm

@Davespice

your blog have sowed something more...

i am new to the embedded worl, but, can you explain how you use the "dd" tool to write a 1.8GB image to a partition(G:) with only 75mb ??? :S

So i will need, two partitions right?

one in windows msdos format, for boot, and one for linux(plus swap, but this can be optional).

with this geometry(all the sdcard):

h:255 ; s:63: c:xpto(depends on the size of the card)

after that i can write the debian image to the boot partition(msdos format)...?but i will need a msdos partition larger or equal to 1.8GB, because if not...the entire image doesn't fit there, correct?

And the other partition, in ext3/4 serve to what??for me this is the root  "/" partition, i don't put nothing inside?

Thanks for the patient, and sorry my bad English

Regards

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Tass
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:06 pm

TuxD3v said:


@Tass

yes o course, i have tried several things...but none appears to me to explain the process only a windows process that i don't use, and maybe the problem have todo with it...

we are talking about a board that is for linux, but in the help sites, appears information for windows :S ...



Sorry, I misunderstood - my fault   From what I understand, the best way to do this is to write the entire image to the disk.  You don't need to prepare the partitions as the image contains all the partition information and creates them for you.  I managed to do this using DD for Windows, which is a port of the Linux tool DD, so I would assume that you can use that.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:19 pm

This is a good time for me to re-iterate the good advice given by some other posters in the past.

That advice is: Forget doing this under Windows.  First, it will just confuse you because the whole Windows mental model is antithetical to what we are trying to accomplish here.  Second, because the Linux experience will do you good (I know this sounds a little snarky, but I am quite serious).

Instead, get a live CD (I have used and highly recommend Knoppix [http://www.knoppix.com] - download the ISO, burn it to a CD, boot it) version of Linux and boot that up on your machine.  As others have noted, this is entirely safe and will not in any way affect or modify your Windows installation.  Yes, you will now have to learn your way around Linux, but think of this as money in the bank once you do actually get a Pi.

The point of all this is that once you are in Linux, the command to make the SD card is so simple: dd bs=1024k if=debianfile.img of=/dev/sd(whatever)

Yes, you do have to figure out what to put in for "whatever", but again, this is valuable experience that will pay off down the line.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

lmx
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:27 pm

@Tass

Thank you,

so, i dont need a sdcard with the 2 partitions, this is for windows people, right?!

i can use my sdcard unformatted, and right directly to it , and the dd tool will create the necessary stuf??

Oh men i think that is easier to put in documentation only this:

"keep a sdcard unformated and write the image to it, the image contains all the partitions that you need"

this is so mutch easier

@Joe Schmoe

You are 100% correct, the documentation, make a worst job than if it don't exist, of course if i understood the explanations from Tass...

So the image have already all the stuff needed, pufff...this is a important info!And the only I needed(in the worst scenario for now lol).

For me the documentation have to be simple, direct, without draws, and based on Linux, after all this is a Linux environment, and when they mess thinks about different operating systems....will go wrong.

Thanks for your help, and for the patient, and again, sorry my bad English

Regards

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Tass
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:42 pm

No problem TuxD3v - glad to help.

I would however like to point out (not just to you, to everyone reading this) that for many people interested in this project this is the first time that they've being exposed to Linux, so even the simplest tasks can be quite daunting.  To ensure they don't stumble at the first hurdle (i.e. creating an SD card), I think it's important to ensure there are instructions available for entry-level Windows users.

That said, we also need to ensure the same instructions are available for Linux users too   I'm sure over the next few weeks, as the devices start arriving, there will be a lot more posted to help users of any persuasion.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:01 pm

I most definitely disagree.  I think if you're going to use this device, you'd better learn Linux.  And the point is, now is a good time, given that it's going to be months before anyone actually has a Pi (yes, I know I'll get blowback for this, but let's be realistic just for once).

It is also true that no one (of the "I'm a Window weenie" persuasion) is going to be able to do anything with the SD card now (i.e., until they get their Pi, in a few months time) in any event.  The point I am making here is that the simulation/emulation stuff is tricky and complicated enough that the Windows-only types aren't going to be able to get that going either.

So you might as well use this time productively - to get used to Linux.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

lmx
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:16 pm

@Tass

Thanks

I understand the preoccupation to produce documentation for windows,Linux,Mac OS,

in my opinion, i think that using a live cd with linux is a very god approach,

all the people will follow it and in the end everything goes fine...

For me the initial information for the people,to start, is that..."The image already have  everything inside, you just have to write it to the unformatted sd card" ...something like that.

after that, with a live cd you can write it to the sdcard(all the procedures) ...

A simple explanation will do the correct job, without problems.

After that a more complex way for the expert people explicating  how to do that.

But i understand, the people who made the documentation is very busy, and they have tried their best to do that, i know.

Thanks to all of you guys including, of course, you Tass

Regards

lmx
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:33 pm

@Joe Schmoe

Yes, its truth, because the operating system that will rum in the PI is Linux make sense for me to start now with documentation is this direction...

Because the people have to be used to, to start administrating their PI, and i think that its the perfect time to do that.

My card is already loaded with Debian , and the unique  tool i have needed is a DD...

its so simple.

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Tass
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:34 pm


Joe Schmoe said:

So you might as well use this time productively - to get used to Linux.



Generally agree with you - use this time to learn Linux while you wait for your Pi.  And you will need to learn Linux at some point.

BUT.... Not everyone learns in the same way and for some people using Windows to create this card is an easier option.  Not the "right" option in your eyes it seems, but that doesn't mean we should force people to use other options.  I chose to write my card using Windows.  Why?  Because it was easier to do it straight from my Windows laptop that has a cardreader than go to my cupboard and dig out the last live CD I downloaded (Debian & Fedora 16 last week actually!).

Don't get me wrong - Live CDs will be great for newcomers - brilliant way to familiarise themselves with Linux and get ready for their first slice...  But telling some people on this forum to "Forget doing this under Windows" is just going to put them off.

Chris.Rowland
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:36 pm

Isn't this covered in the Wiki?

http://elinux.org/RPi_Easy_SD_Card_Setup

I tried the Windows approach using Win32DiskImager and it worked in a way that is familiar to a Windows user. I've got a Debian SD card ready to go.

Now I'm not trying to start a war here and I'm going to avoid emotive and judgemental words as much as I can but this does seem to illustrate the difference between the Linux and Windows ways.

In the Windows way you have a graphical interface, you select the image file using a file select dialog, set the SD card letter and press go.

In the Linux way you type a command line in a terminal. It contains magic numbers, mysterious codes and the file path and card loacition have to be typed in exactly.

The complexity is the same but in one case it is handled by the application and in the other case it's handled by the user.  I think that most users would prefer not to have to handle this and it is, I think, part of the reason why Linux has so much trouble becoming a mainstream OS.

In my opinion what's needed is a lot more attention paid to UI design and usability.

Please forgive me if this is too contentious, I'm trying for it not to be so.

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Tass
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:53 pm

Thinking about it, getting Windows users fresh off the boat to use the command line DD option might actually be a gentle way to break them into the world of Linux without destroying their minds with references to /dev/sd... One day at a time!

rpt
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:56 pm

I think a Windows tool to create the SD card is vital. A lot of people will only have a Windows machine. When they get their RPi they want to be able to create the SD card, plug it in and turn on the RPi. It will boot into a GUI and they will easily be able to launch a browser etc. Having to boot into a Live CD or set up a virtual machine is much harder.

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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:59 pm

I have a question about the OS SD card. Instead of making a new thread, I'm just going to go ahead and post it here.

I purchased an 8 gig class 6 SDHC card for the pi. It's one of the recommended ones in the wiki, and I used a windows program (don't remember the name, but I know it was one people recommended in threads here) to burn the debian image to the card.

Afterwords, I loaded up Ubuntu 10.04 from a live cd, and looked at the card. It appeared everything went well, as it contained 3 partitions (75MB, 1.XGB, 192MB Swap, and 5+ unallocated space.)

Seeing that I didn't want all that unallocated space to go to waste, I moved the swap partition to the end of the card using gparted, and resized the 1.XGB partion to take the remaining space.

So my question is, after doing this, will the Pi still be able to boot normally? Due to some circumstances, I will not have access to an SD card reader when my Pi arrives, and I'm unsure as to whether some of the configurations in the default image could cause problems if the partitions are moved or resized. So I would like to get this figured out as soon as I can.

Thanks.

EDIT: Win32DiskImager was the name of the program I used to flash the image to the card.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:40 pm

What you did is probably OK - i.e., it will probably work - assuming your partition resizer/mover is reliable.

But it is probably safer to just create another partition in the unused space, and then when you get things up and running on the Pi, you could mount, for example, /home, out on the other partition.

At least that's how we thought about and did things back in the olden days...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:31 pm

I suppose that would be safer. I know that having a separate partition for /home is considered more responsible, but the way I see it, if I screw up the OS I'll have to re-flash the whole card anyway, and since overall the storage is low, I doubt I'd have much on the pi aside from programs themselves, which wouldn't be put on the /home partition (and therefore, the extra space would be needed on the system partition.)

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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:59 am

I gave you the easy setup link and it does show the dd method which I also used so I have no idea about some of the rude comments from posters about windows use that this has led too but they are unnecessary.

None of the ways listed are wrong unless you are closed minded.

I hope more people will learn Linux but most of them will go back to work and have to use windows.

No need for rude, I think the best approach is for them to use what they feel comfortable with and given different skill levels safety should also be considered.


Download the image from a mirror or torrent

http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads


Verify if the the hash key is the same (optional), in the terminal run:

shasum ~/debian6-17-02-2012.zip


Extract the image, with

unzip ~/debian6-17-02-2012.zip


Connect the sdcard reader with the sdcard inside
Check the name of the device that the SD card was mounted as by running: dmesg | tail, it will be something like "/dev/sdc"
In the terminal write the image to the card with this command, making sure you replace "/dev/sdc" with the right device name.

dd bs=1M if=~/debian6-17-02-2012/debian6-17-02-2012.img of=/dev/sdc


Insert it in the raspberry pi, and have fun
If you are more worried about ,spelling, punctuation or grammar you have probably already missed the point so please just move on.

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Lob0426
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:24 am

The whole idea of this thread is to end up with a working SD card. For many the RasPi will be their first and maybe only ever linux machine. If they try unsuccessfully too many times to make a card, they will just give up. Now some of you may think this is great as they will then sell their RasPii. That is not the whole idea behind the Raspberry Pi. Some of these people may just be the kids it was aimed at. You know the ones, that grew up with windows only lifestyle! The rewards come after they,  the new RasPi users, have a working RasPi. If Linux takes with them then maybe the second card they setup can be DD. These people have never even heard of a command line as there is not one available on their Android or iOS device. It isn't that common to use the command line in Windows.

I started on an Aplle IIE (TS81, TI99/4a, TRS80 coco, Tandy 1000HX, etc.) I know what the command line is, Do they? Help them get it working and worry about their born again linux status later.
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lmx
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Re: Problems creating a SD card

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:59 am

@Vindicator

Yes you right, the problem is...

wen you are scrolling in the wiki and you see some amounts of instructions for windows, after that you see 3 partitions(a picture)....but you only have one image to pass to the card :S this is the problem...

you end in a big confusion, because you need 3 partitions like you have seen before in windows instructions , and the most common is to think that some thing is wrong.

Of course...the debian image have already the tree partitions inside...but we don't know that, because we are no wizards.

I think that is important to inform that first..."The image is global, and already have the 3 partitions made, so you only have to write the image to the sdcard"

After that you post all the info you have posted above.And it will be complete.

Do not get me wrong, but this happened to me, and will happen to many others, and have nothing to do with closed minded.

you have a image but you don't know what it have inside, so you don't know how to make the sdcard..

Don't interpret me wrong, but it was more complete if you add something explaining that the image already have everything inside...

Thanks for the help, and sorry my horrible English

Regards

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