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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:15 am

May 14, 2012

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abishur
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:03 am

haggismoon said:


Abishur



RPF is clearly responsible for this situation, I am as ecited as anyone at the prospect of reciving a Raspberry Pi and would not care if it were coming From RPF or a Major PC manufcture. RPF with all ther hype and promise of a March release created the Demand and they were clear about the demand requierments. As a member of this forum and claming admin status I feel you sould be promoting RPF rathere than filling you post with Analogies which serve no other purpose than one up manship.


Well I fail to see how a proper analogy would be one up manship, maybe you meant it was a false analogy?  Nor am I sure how using a single analogy equals filling a post with analogies.  I'm also unsure about the general desire of your needlessly bold post.  Are you upset because they didn't produce more in the first batch?  Is it because you're calling consistent status updates "hype"?  I'm sorry, I just fail to see how a manufacturer's mistakes equals the fault of the RPF especially when they've been nothing but upfront with *exactly* what has been going on with every step of the process.

kayaker said:

Here's MY analogy...
This is RPF's dinner party, they invited me and now the caterer screwed up and the food isn't coming (or is coming "soon"... or maybe "not so soon"... or, well, we really don't know).  RPF should be up at the podium explaining exactly what's going on, what we can expect and when.  If they don't know what's up, then talk with the caterers, figure it out.   Because at the end of the night, the story won't be that Joe the caterer's truck broke down, it'll be that RPF bungled the party.


Well, that's a fair enough analogy, but isn't that exactly what they've been doing?  They've been really upfront with what's going on from the very beginning and their latest post shows the results of their continual dialog with the manufacturers to resolve the pricing issues that have been going on
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cnxsoft
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:18 am

Abishur said:

...the manufacturer accidentally swapping out the correct ethernet jack for one that won't work on the board, hence they had to be shipped back and the jack swapped out.  
What puzzles me is that it was not detected during factory testing, or maybe I misunderstood and the boards had not left China yet when the problem was found.

cehbab
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:24 am

I just inquired from element14 as to how many units are expected to delivered to Aussies from the first batch, but they neglected to answer this question. What they did say was this.

'Unfortunately due to the global demand for the Raspberry PI, we aren’t able to commit a delivery date to you at this stage. We cannot determine where abouts an order is in the queue.'

So for any Aussies that say they have any supposed ETA, don't be too upset when this is not honored.

Ordered 5:22am 29th Feb.

rmm200
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:26 am

Check the home page news item. At least some boards were flown to the RPF, and the problem was identified by cutting a jack open. Good pictures on the home page...

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abishur
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:27 am

cnxsoft said:


Abishur said:


...the manufacturer accidentally swapping out the correct ethernet jack for one that won't work on the board, hence they had to be shipped back and the jack swapped out.


What puzzles me is that it was not detected during factory testing, or maybe I misunderstood and the boards had not left China yet when the problem was found.



Ah they explained that the reason it was not detected during factory testing was because that testing is an electrical systems check.  Since they had already done a beta batch of 100 boards they knew the designed worked.  Once the design is proven all you need to do is an electronics check to make sure power is flowing the way it should.  It passed that check with no problem.  It was only once the boards arrived at the RPF and they did real life testing on it (the kind that can't be done at the manufacturer's) that they realized that the ethernet jack, while being electronically correct, was the wrong part which prevented it to communicate properly.
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kayaker
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:37 am

Edit.. oops.. meant this post to be a response to Abishur's reply to me...

True, but the pricing thing is unrelated to the manufacturing and delivery questions.  I'm not saying they're not being upfront/honest about the fact there is a problem… but it's been 12 days with no updates on it and all we do here is ask each other for dates.  umm… wait, that didn't come out right… I'm a married man!

Anyway, I just wish RPF would step up their profile a bit, take lead of the issues, and gets the facts out.  By now, they should know how many are fixed, how many remain to be fixed and when they should be done, and which distributors get them at what time.  From there, sure, the distributors handle fulfillment and only they can provide realistic ship date estimates.

No more whining from me, though.  I'm grateful for the (eventual) opportunity to have one of these things if/when they finally show. And I do appreciate this forum and the work you moderators do to keep it going.

[/stepping off soapbox to brush teeth and get some sleep]

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abishur
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:57 am

kayaker said:


Edit.. oops.. meant this post to be a response to Abishur's reply to me...

True, but the pricing thing is unrelated to the manufacturing and delivery questions.  I"m not saying they"re not being upfront/honest about the fact there is a problem… but it"s been 12 days with no updates on it and all we do here is ask each other for dates.  umm… wait, that didn"t come out right… I"m a married man!

Anyway, I just wish RPF would step up their profile a bit, take lead of the issues, and gets the facts out.  By now, they should know how many are fixed, how many remain to be fixed and when they should be done, and which distributors get them at what time.  From there, sure, the distributors handle fulfillment and only they can provide realistic ship date estimates.

No more whining from me, though.  I"m grateful for the (eventual) opportunity to have one of these things if/when they finally show. And I do appreciate this forum and the work you moderators do to keep it going.

[/stepping off soapbox to brush teeth and get some sleep]



LOL, love the date joke!  I'm afraid that 12 days isn't really that long considering the time it takes to pack everything back up and have it clear all those customs again   My point of talking about their upfrontness and honesty is to point out that if there was news to be given, they would be giving it   Well, I say that, but I know Liz got a bit hurt here in the states (there was a tweet about a while back) and she's the one that does most the posts on twitter and the forum so it might be possible that she's temporarily out of commission so we're not getting every minuet detail like we're used to, but sadly patience is the key here.  Try and keep in mind the ebb and flow of a global marketplace, things aren't as simple as just shipping from state to state or even as easy as shipping within the EU.  Also try to keep in mind that it's possible (and I have *no* news about this, I'm just speculating with you at the moment) that there is something going on but they're legally not allowed to discuss it at the moment.  I know a lot of people have gotten fairly upset about NDAs, but sadly that's the way the world runs these days

Long paragraph with lots of randomness aside, my real only point here is that 12 days is an annoyance to be sure, but it's not that long when you consider the big picture of what's going on.  While I guess they could put up a post every days that said "no status change" I think we'd all get pretty annoyed with that *real* quick
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johnkay
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:14 am

A few days ago, the Raspberry Pi Foundation announced a small manufacturing delay. A component in the Pi is being reinstalled. In the grand scheme it's small potatoes - but we know it's frustrating for Farnell element14 fans and customers.

Farnell element14 will deliver your Pi to you around end of May.

hamjudo
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:48 am

In the past, when RPF wasn't providing status updates, it was because they were in the process of negotiating with some outside entity. If you look back at the early manufacturing estimates, they gave out information before everything was signed. Then they found out that the local factories couldn't make boards nearly as fast as they wanted. After that, they didn't announce things until they had a schedule. The deal with the factory in China wasn't announced until the factory told them they were just a few weeks away from getting manufactured boards. Except, the factory was overly optimistic (and not so good at part tracking).

The distributor deals weren't announced until the date that the distributors said they would be ready to take orders. It turns out that the distributors were overly optimistic (and not so good at high volume order taking).

At this point the distributors are probably busy trying to arrange manufacturing. The factory in China is probably busily soldering on new ethernet jacks. It is also possible, that the distributors have found factories to make the boards, and those factories have already begun production. The first Chinese factory may have finished repairs, and the boards might be in transit. Or not.

Given the history, I wouldn't be surprised if the Foundation has decided not to announce anything until the boards have completed testing and are in the mail. Even that might be pushing it. They may wait to announce that boards are shipping until after they get feedback from customers, that they have received working boards.

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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:45 am

Added to that ^ that both Eben and Liz are off breaking legs on holiday we have to be paitent .,.,.,,.
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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:56 am

I think there is a lot of truth in that. We have turned into ravening beasts constantly wanting more and more information and being highly critical of anything they do. The more information they give the more we want. Each small comment or announcement results in hundreds of counter comments and analysis. I am sure that they will be analysing the activity on the forum since they have been away. By giving us nothing to feed on, activity has reduced to a trickle. This may give them food for thought. Why work your nuts off on the forum, day after day, if all you are going to get is hassle. By comparison, activity on the RS and Farnell sites is almost non-existent, but then the companies rarely make any comment or announcements.

haitek
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:58 am

Farnell accepted my order and payment on the 14th March but I haven't received a delivery date or any other correspondence yet

colin B
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:58 am

Slightly off at a tangent.

A have worked in manufacturing of electronic devices within the telecommunications industry and health devices.

Depending on how parts are sourced (customer provides the parts versus board stuffing house buys to BOM) it can take up to six weeks. The PCB's can take a week to be made and shipped to the factory assuming the cheapest board deal was selected add on a week if customer requires part checking to specs, setting up pick and place machines takes about a day to two days or more if unlucky, running profiling for the ovens, checking SMD screens and solder/flux are correct, adjusting screen printer all takes time, add on actual production which assuming a shift of 8 hours could result in a minimum of 100 to 300 boards per shift possibly more, add on hand soldering for connectors and visual inspection, rework (if allowed by customer), testing , packing and shipping would all add up to at least another month.

So assuming no problems from woe to go a minimum of 1 month lead time and more likely 3 is about right for large production runs.

Mind you I've been out of that side of electronics for some time now and have never worked at a Chinese factory, having only worked at places that have three Pick and Place machines running, two solder screeners and four ovens.
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kayaker
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:11 am

All very good points, and I hadn"t thought of the customs nightmare. I just hope we hear some news soon. If it could really add several MONTHS, then best to get that out. Certainly, daily updates would be silly, but weekly ones might not be unreasonable. Directly hearing that they"re aggresively working the issue is better than expecting blind faith. Hopefully It IS just a small "hiccup", though.

Sorry for adding off-topic posts, let"s let this thread get back to posting dates... Still no date or status update for my US order from RS"s US subsidiary, Allied Electronics. I at least expected a reply to my email.

itsonlyme
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:13 am

Thanks. That is probably the best information we have had so far.  No dates but the info on manufacturing time we need to work things out for ourselves Why the heck could the Foundation, Farnell, or RS not give this information in the first place? Nothing commercially sensitive here.

Now as I look at it, and presuming the distributors ordered supplies reasonably promptly, I would expect that an for order placed 29 February you could expect delivery around the end of May, with a more definite date to come about the time items are ready to leave China.

Loads of posts in this forum, and no doubt phone and email requests to distributors, no longer necessary.

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ArborealSeer
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:26 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


I think there is a lot of truth in that. We have turned into ravening beasts constantly wanting more and more information and being highly critical of anything they do. The more information they give the more we want. Each small comment or announcement results in hundreds of counter comments and analysis. I am sure that they will be analysing the activity on the forum since they have been away. By giving us nothing to feed on, activity has reduced to a trickle. This may give them food for thought. Why work your nuts off on the forum, day after day, if all you are going to get is hassle. By comparison, activity on the RS and Farnell sites is almost non-existent, but then the companies rarely make any comment or announcements.


Its a beast that could have been avoided through proper management of the demand in the first place, and the lack of activity might just mean people have given up.

Fact is. 3 weeks after the 'release' people still have no idea, and it still keeps getting pushed back (if you go by the latest Farnell emails).
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pandapi
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:51 pm

ArborealSeer said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


I think there is a lot of truth in that. We have turned into ravening beasts constantly wanting more and more information and being highly critical of anything they do. The more information they give the more we want. Each small comment or announcement results in hundreds of counter comments and analysis. I am sure that they will be analysing the activity on the forum since they have been away. By giving us nothing to feed on, activity has reduced to a trickle. This may give them food for thought. Why work your nuts off on the forum, day after day, if all you are going to get is hassle. By comparison, activity on the RS and Farnell sites is almost non-existent, but then the companies rarely make any comment or announcements.


Its a beast that could have been avoided through proper management of the demand in the first place, and the lack of activity might just mean people have given up.

Fact is. 3 weeks after the 'release' people still have no idea, and it still keeps getting pushed back (if you go by the latest Farnell emails).


This!

There are a few products out or coming out that are similar. They may be a tad more expensive but they are also better. My enthusiasm for the Pi has waned over the last 2 months. They need to get some boards out so we can see some unboxings, youtube vids and get some people actually using them.

For example, if you order a cubox now it will ship at the end of april. If you order a Pi now (can you even order one at the mo?) it will ship in august+. The cubox is more expensive but comes with psu/case/preinstalled card and extra functionality like optical/esata/1gb ram/gig eth etc.

I'm finding it very hard not to order one and wait for the pi

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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:01 pm


Its a beast that could have been avoided through proper management of the demand in the first place, and the lack of activity might just mean people have given up.


In what way could it have been avoided?   This was a known limited production run of 10,000 boards financed out of their own pockets.  As far as I am aware they took out no advertisements offering it for sale.   What was being imminently made available - after initial testing of factory-produced samples had been verified as okay, were / are 10,000 BARE BOARDS aimed at developers and documentors etc in preparation for a main release (of a cased product) aimed at UK Schools in the next school year.

We should all be grateful that their thoroughness (and which would have been repeated at QA in RS and Farnell) of checking the main-batch production stopped the boards reaching anyone and having to be returned - a situation which could not be afforded ... and your house (nor mine!) was placed on the line.

The initial 20:1 over subscription (- which does bear a resembkance to the original BBC Model B - demonstrating the demand for an understandable computer? ) was not helped by a UK 'bargain buying' website encouraging everyone to grab 'bargain of the day' - when the cased consumer product was not being offered!!

A product aimed at UK schools, albeit with development assistance from friends and colleagues in other countries, can hardly be expected (or financed!) to meet the Instant Demands for Product  that have been made around the world.

Under earlier plans, the 2nd and 3rd batches... were also only going to be 10,000 each.

I'm sure that, when not continually interrupted by pointless enquiries of queue position, staff at RS and Farnell are ensuring as rapid an increase in production as soon as possible - as they thrive on selling 'from stock' and not having to create a separate order sysytem for consumer-types.   I'm somewhere in that queue ... I've no idea where, and will simply have to continue preparing for 'the day' [Anyone taking up my 'Norad' suggestion of graphical arrival tracking] and get on with life and MoTs and such like until then.

And, in most cases of those claiming to have 'paid'; this is usually only their credit card details - and authorisation - whilst the debit will only take place on final despatch. So everything is still being financed by the RPF and RS/Farnell.

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:03 pm

I do think you are being rather disingenuous here. If you order a product that is in stock you would expect it to be delivered in a few days at most. If you and 300,000 others order a brand new product over a couple of days where the stock is 10,000, there are going to be problems. Clearly not helped by being a bit premature with the initial release date and then having an incorrect part on the board.

The Cubox looks an interesting product but it is clear from their forum that they are just ticking over at the moment with a couple of posts a day. If they had 300,000 orders overnight they would be in the same position.

khulat
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:06 pm

The product is not even comparable, in case of the CuBox, because the cost is so much higher.

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:12 pm

Also, just noticed that the most users they ever had on line was 30 as opposed to our 969. I think the Cubox, although an interesting looking product, has not caught the public imagination in the same way.

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ArborealSeer
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:04 pm

Phil Spiegel said:



Its a beast that could have been avoided through proper management of the demand in the first place, and the lack of activity might just mean people have given up.


In what way could it have been avoided?   This was a known limited production run of 10,000 boards financed out of their own pockets.  As far as I am aware they took out no advertisements offering it for sale.   What was being imminently made available – after initial testing of factory-produced samples had been verified as okay, were / are 10,000 BARE BOARDS aimed at developers and documentors etc in preparation for a main release (of a cased product) aimed at UK Schools in the next school year.


Yawn Yawn we know all this. This has been done to death, before the 10k were even ordered many people were more than willing to pledge the money themselves.

This is now effectively whats happened anyways with RS and Farnell doing the donkey work and handling all the enquiries, and a 6-8 week delay. even the first 10k that were 'almost fixed' when they disclosed the problem are still yet to materialise.

No adverts? well apart from blog posts on the biggest tech sites in the world hyping it, a constant twitter presence and even getting on the BBC 6pm news.

Everyone here and in the real world ™ could see where this was heading, either it was calculated or they were massively naive. Yes they had limited resources but there were surely better ways of doing it.

Its not a BBC Micro, its more like a Furby – hordes of people who got caught up in they hype will leave them in a dark cupboard or drawer not having knowing what they've bought.

cheap pc? 30 quid? .. count me in!… bargain!

followed by…

what you can't plug it into a vga monitor? or sync your smartphone with it? or put windows on it... whats the point of that?
Pi Status > Farnell, Arrived 24/5- RS, Arrived 1/6

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Tass
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:14 pm

Will to live slowly slipping away.... So... much... repetition....

BlaineThePilot
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Re: Post your estimated arrival dates

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:11 pm

Apr 2nd with Newark

I plan on putting my R-Pi in a briefcase bag.

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