It would be great if there were an RPi-specific "app directory" website looking like:
"Ubuntu Apps Directory" https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/
and/or:
"Fedora Apps" list: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/apps/name/list/
…which would allow users to easily see before initial purchase or installation if there exists suitable software that they'd want (which is easily installable in a reliable manner, from the respective GUI-based package manager). And please, let's ignore for the moment the potential ability to install from unofficial repositories, and tarballs, as that can be much less reliable and maintainable over the longer term (let alone the added installation difficulty).
The feature here that newbies will love is that these online package descriptions are searchable, using generic terms like "word processing". For example, they might not know what "Abiword" is, but they probably know a generic term like "word processing," and can thereby easily find and try out Abiword. This is a great "dissolver of perplexity" for newbies faced with the overwhelming number of software choices! This will help RPi users make an informed, sensible choice which suits their needs, be they newbies or geeks.
Furthermore, these listed choices could be greatly pared down from all the offerings seen at the upstream online app directories, by only listing choices that actually run on the RPi with reasonable performance (i.e. are known to be lightweight enough).
Also consider, for example, how Ubuntu's online app directory shows up to 5 stars, as rated by users, along with oftentimes pithy reviews. Although they should be taken with a grain of salt, I think these stars and reviews are VERY helpful for newbies to QUICKLY zero in on the 2 or 3 obvious, realistic apps to try out first (which can be easily installed, tried out, and possibly un-installed, all in a matter of minutes).
This is highly valuable, because the best software choices available at the time will change with the Zeitgeist of the day. No matter what the RPi Foundation recommends as a standard software stack, I guarantee that the Zeitgeist will twist and turn and squirm away from that software stack, over time, as new developments and options emerge. But a rating system such as this helps keep even the newbies on top of that Zeitgeist.
Leaving it to newbies to Google around to try to find up-to-date, quality info on specific software (once they know it's name, which is half the battle), will probably just make their heads spin. An online app directory helps get around that, by making a user-friendly, and highly accessible "one-stop shop".
Having said all this, reading Wikipedia summaries is also a good runner-up method (granted you know what you're looking for), for newbies to try to quickly get up to speed on all the various Open Source technologies that make up a modern Linux distro.
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
Very Good Idea. Although perhaps the directory may be better in the downloads section of the main site with any necessary links.
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
you would need to have a list per disto.. bit of a challenge that.. unless you are wanting to do it?
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
I think one unified list could cover all RPi-optimized distros. How? For any given software package, you could just have "tags" which indicate which distros include that package from their respective graphical Package Management utilities. For example, Abiword is available in both Fedora and Debian, so both "Fedora" and "Debian" distro "tags" would be seen in the Abiword entry in the App Directory. And these tags could then be filtered on, so that one could show, say, only the packages available in Fedora.
Furthermore, there should be tags for indicating if a package is a "technical item," so that lower-level library packages, etc, are not shown to end users by default. This is another innovation seen in the Ubuntu Software Center that would be worthy of borrowing. For example, if I search for "Word Processing" in Ubuntu Software Center, I get only 4 results, but at the bottom is a link saying "Show 16 technical items" (which newbies will almost certainly not care about).
As to implementing this myself, unfortunately I can't do that at this time. But perhaps there are some web coders out there looking for a way to engage their creativity and help the RPi cause. Having said that, I hope it looks and feels like delicious.com though, as they deeply understand tags, and religiously put them in nice, REST-ful URLs.
Furthermore, there should be tags for indicating if a package is a "technical item," so that lower-level library packages, etc, are not shown to end users by default. This is another innovation seen in the Ubuntu Software Center that would be worthy of borrowing. For example, if I search for "Word Processing" in Ubuntu Software Center, I get only 4 results, but at the bottom is a link saying "Show 16 technical items" (which newbies will almost certainly not care about).
As to implementing this myself, unfortunately I can't do that at this time. But perhaps there are some web coders out there looking for a way to engage their creativity and help the RPi cause. Having said that, I hope it looks and feels like delicious.com though, as they deeply understand tags, and religiously put them in nice, REST-ful URLs.
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
Hell of a lot of work. Took Canonical/Ubuntu about 4 releases to get to the decent system they have now. That's with a bunch of paid developers.
Can you plumb in to the Ubuntu database somehow and use their ratings?
Can you plumb in to the Ubuntu database somehow and use their ratings?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
I agree that a repository would be indeed useful in this.
But again, there is the issue of what OS is the repo going to be hosting? Or is it just going to host a multitude of all the OS's that have been setup?
But again, there is the issue of what OS is the repo going to be hosting? Or is it just going to host a multitude of all the OS's that have been setup?
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
There is a big difference here... Meanwhile Ubuntu and Fedora are operating systems, R? is more like a plataform in which you will install operating systems, so the apps inside that directory should be for R? and also for the different systems that are officially supported by the device... It will be a mess!
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
The idea I'm envisioning here is simpler than trying to be a repo (which allows downloads for all packages, over possibly many releases).
It also wouldn't do all the things that the native graphical package management apps do (it would rather compliment them). Take, for example, how Ubuntu's online app directory does not mention size and version, but the native Software Center does.
It would just be about helping users make more informed decisions about which software they'll want to install. Once they know the names, then they search for those apps in their native graphical package management app, for installation. This online "app directory" would be just an informational companion to the native graphical package management apps, offering info that has more subjective quality than the native graphical package management apps are offering (i.e. ratings, reviews, and assurance of "lightweightness").
Here's what the online app directory I'm envisioning wouldn't do:
- It wouldn't have download links for individual packages files, like a repo would.
- It wouldn't mention version numbers (like the "2.8.6-0.3build1" in "abiword 2.8.6-0.3build1") or release numbers (like the 16 in Fedora 16). It just generically mentions the app, along with accompanying reviews, rating in stars, and assurance that it's lightweight enough for the Raspberry Pi. Whatever the latest stable release is for a given distro, it covers packages in that release, and only that release.
Here's how one could possibly could "cut corners":
- Scripts could build package lists merely by running the commands that list all packages (for example "apt-cache dump" in Ubuntu), and plucking selected info out of there (especially URLs linking to upstream project homepages, if they exist), and putting it into a DB. If an app is already mentioned, then ignore adding it, but make sure a tag exists to indicate that the distro in question does cover that package. This would need to be rerun after each new release of a distro for the RPi comes out, taking care to not to ever throw away previous reviews and ratings, and pruning away distro-specific tags for packages that no longer exist, for a given distro. Unfortunately, Moderators would need to prune away older reviews that are obsolete, after each new release of each distro (say if an annoying bug got fixed in the new release). And it's assumed that people will mention a particular distro and release number, if they're referring to a huge bug, in a review) rather than speaking generically (in a way that can be trusted to hold true between releases).
- A bot could download and re-use all screenshots (in an automated way) for each packages listing at http://apps.ubuntu.com, when adding a new app to the directory. For example, the screenshot for abiword is at http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/thumbnail ... rd/ignored (which is a png, although it has no extension).
It also wouldn't do all the things that the native graphical package management apps do (it would rather compliment them). Take, for example, how Ubuntu's online app directory does not mention size and version, but the native Software Center does.
It would just be about helping users make more informed decisions about which software they'll want to install. Once they know the names, then they search for those apps in their native graphical package management app, for installation. This online "app directory" would be just an informational companion to the native graphical package management apps, offering info that has more subjective quality than the native graphical package management apps are offering (i.e. ratings, reviews, and assurance of "lightweightness").
Here's what the online app directory I'm envisioning wouldn't do:
- It wouldn't have download links for individual packages files, like a repo would.
- It wouldn't mention version numbers (like the "2.8.6-0.3build1" in "abiword 2.8.6-0.3build1") or release numbers (like the 16 in Fedora 16). It just generically mentions the app, along with accompanying reviews, rating in stars, and assurance that it's lightweight enough for the Raspberry Pi. Whatever the latest stable release is for a given distro, it covers packages in that release, and only that release.
Here's how one could possibly could "cut corners":
- Scripts could build package lists merely by running the commands that list all packages (for example "apt-cache dump" in Ubuntu), and plucking selected info out of there (especially URLs linking to upstream project homepages, if they exist), and putting it into a DB. If an app is already mentioned, then ignore adding it, but make sure a tag exists to indicate that the distro in question does cover that package. This would need to be rerun after each new release of a distro for the RPi comes out, taking care to not to ever throw away previous reviews and ratings, and pruning away distro-specific tags for packages that no longer exist, for a given distro. Unfortunately, Moderators would need to prune away older reviews that are obsolete, after each new release of each distro (say if an annoying bug got fixed in the new release). And it's assumed that people will mention a particular distro and release number, if they're referring to a huge bug, in a review) rather than speaking generically (in a way that can be trusted to hold true between releases).
- A bot could download and re-use all screenshots (in an automated way) for each packages listing at http://apps.ubuntu.com, when adding a new app to the directory. For example, the screenshot for abiword is at http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/thumbnail ... rd/ignored (which is a png, although it has no extension).
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
What you could do is have a section in the downloads, with a list of all the compatible OS and then if you click the one you have you can sent to a page with all the compatible programs for the specific OS, but obviously they will all be programs that are able to run on the RPi.
So you would go to the website, go to downloads-->(OS name)-->(name of program) which takes you to the a page where you can get the desired software.
This wont add extra bulk to the OS and it will be easy to use, the only downside would be the initial setup, but it could just be that it takes you to a page with instructions on how to install it and the user has to do the setup themselves.
This is just a suggestion, more of a temporary thing, once this gets going, it could be turned into a program that installs everything for you, but untill that is possible, i think this could work.
So you would go to the website, go to downloads-->(OS name)-->(name of program) which takes you to the a page where you can get the desired software.
This wont add extra bulk to the OS and it will be easy to use, the only downside would be the initial setup, but it could just be that it takes you to a page with instructions on how to install it and the user has to do the setup themselves.
This is just a suggestion, more of a temporary thing, once this gets going, it could be turned into a program that installs everything for you, but untill that is possible, i think this could work.
Re: RPi-specific online "app directory"
I've spent a little more time at the Fedora Online App database:
Fedora Package Database
...and I see they already allow for a rating in stars, comments, and tags to be added to a listing for a given software package. By making use of these, most of what I was going for does get accomplished, for a large number of Raspberry Pi users.
Perhaps a much easier way to get most of the functionality I've proposed is just to make use of those features (stars, adding comments, and tagging) already available at the Fedora Package Database. It's just that Debian users (and users of other distros on the RPi) would miss out on this.
The only novel thing I'd propose is to add a tag called, say, "lite4rasberrypi" to indicate that a given app is lightweight enough to run nicely on the Raspberry Pi. Then Raspberry Pi users could just search for all packages having this tag, and they would get a good listing that's been vetted by real people. The trick is to stick to using one tag.
I'm going to add a new feature request in this forum based just on this.
If anyone still wants to do this larger idea (as originally posted), by all means, please feel free.
Fedora Package Database
...and I see they already allow for a rating in stars, comments, and tags to be added to a listing for a given software package. By making use of these, most of what I was going for does get accomplished, for a large number of Raspberry Pi users.
Perhaps a much easier way to get most of the functionality I've proposed is just to make use of those features (stars, adding comments, and tagging) already available at the Fedora Package Database. It's just that Debian users (and users of other distros on the RPi) would miss out on this.
The only novel thing I'd propose is to add a tag called, say, "lite4rasberrypi" to indicate that a given app is lightweight enough to run nicely on the Raspberry Pi. Then Raspberry Pi users could just search for all packages having this tag, and they would get a good listing that's been vetted by real people. The trick is to stick to using one tag.
I'm going to add a new feature request in this forum based just on this.
If anyone still wants to do this larger idea (as originally posted), by all means, please feel free.