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Lob0426
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:05 pm

As a case and hub solution it is a bit expensive for most people at £150. What is that lime $200. Like the idea but the not the price. I suppose the final production model will be cheaper than the kick starter price is.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:08 pm

littlebit wrote:@Lob0426: really neat work. Just as a feedback to your pictures, could you add bigger pictures?
You should be able click on the pictures to get a larger view. If not let me know and I will try to get some larger pictures up on the site!

Have head to work so will fix it later if needed
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:44 pm

@Lob0426: you should because when clicking on the picture, I don't get an enlarged picture.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:18 am

Not really model c but a good peripheral for any model of rpi:

It would be really good if someone could interest a cheap chinese keyboard manufacturer to make a keyboard with usb hub 5 or 6 usb ports, a small mains to 5v 2A swithcing supply and figure of 8 mains socket, with a space for a rpi to fit in the back. Then create an ebay shop to sell the keyboard bundled with mains lead and mouse for £9.99 inc postage and handling shipped direct from china.

I sure there could be a big market for it.

Also possibly a breadboard and power output terminals on the side of the keyboard could be good for the circuit hackers

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:13 pm

mung wrote:Not really model c but a good peripheral for any model of rpi:

It would be really good if someone could interest a cheap chinese keyboard manufacturer to make a keyboard with usb hub 5 or 6 usb ports, a small mains to 5v 2A swithcing supply and figure of 8 mains socket, with a space for a rpi to fit in the back. Then create an ebay shop to sell the keyboard bundled with mains lead and mouse for £9.99 inc postage and handling shipped direct from china.

I sure there could be a big market for it.

Also possibly a breadboard and power output terminals on the side of the keyboard could be good for the circuit hackers
Keyboard, mouse, 2+A power supply, and hub for less than $20? I'd be afraid to plug it in...

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:22 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: Keyboard, mouse, 2+A power supply, and hub for less than $20? I'd be afraid to plug it in...
I wonder why you would be afraid?

Because you prefer protectionist policys against foreign products, because chinese stuff is crap, or because you have a neurotic inflated estimation of the dangers involved in living in this reality?

I had a quick look on cpc (probably available cheaper elsewhere though) and found the following:

http://cpc.farnell.com/dynamode/ina-67/ ... dp/CS24905 @ £1.64 bulk rate
http://cpc.farnell.com/_/hk2010-usb/key ... dp/CS23666 @ £3.19
http://cpc.farnell.com/commtel/49000021 ... dp/SB04227 @ £0.969
http://cpc.farnell.com/raspberry-pi-psu ... dp/PW03060 @ £1.95
http://cpc.farnell.com/_/bb-301/mountab ... dp/PC01237 @ £1.39

= £9.139

That is bulk rate ex VAT, but coming from china handling is much cheaper and there would be no VAT, and economies of scale and integrated production would mean it could probably be done much much cheaper, as there is not all the extra handling of multiple packaging and shipping etc.

Now tell me you prefer buying seperates as you get better quality, or alternativly you could suggest you prefer a desktop with lots of trailing cables, extra interfaces, cases/boxes, boards etc...

I don't know if keyboards can be automatically assembled by robots yet or if human assembly is still the only way to do it?

Where should the cheapest labor be used, should western employees be making keyboards, are they suitably trained and educated and best suit the task?


I think maybe we should lock this thread also :lol:

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:15 am

mung wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: Keyboard, mouse, 2+A power supply, and hub for less than $20? I'd be afraid to plug it in...
I wonder why you would be afraid?
'
Because you prefer protectionist policys against foreign products, because chinese stuff is crap, or because you have a neurotic inflated estimation of the dangers involved in living in this reality?
'
Now tell me you prefer buying seperates as you get better quality, or alternativly you could suggest you prefer a desktop with lots of trailing cables, extra interfaces, cases/boxes, boards etc...

'
Where should the cheapest labor be used, should western employees be making keyboards, are they suitably trained and educated and best suit the task?
'
I think maybe we should lock this thread also :lol:
Here I go, Off Topic;
That is not his, or my, fear at all. Those cheap products have, mostly, proven themselves unreliable. We do try to buy products from our own countries when possible.

If you have not noticed many of the western countries have lost well paying "manufacturing" jobs. Those high paying jobs are being replaced with low pay service jobs.

Western employees are well trained enough and educated enough to produce keyboards!

If I could find a "western" keyboard I would buy it!

And yes I would prefer "protectionist policies" to cure outsourcing of American jobs. Sorry, but that is true!

Back on topic;
By the way I think what he really was trying to get across is that it would probably be better if the price that was quoted was a bit higher. So that a better quality of product would be produced and sold. An unreliable keyboard/mouse/hub/PSU is just something else to overfill a landfill with!
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:25 am

I would like to see some kind of 'entry level' (very thin, cheap, bare minimum of support and dust protection) clear plastic case to replace the cardboard box that the device ships in. This would prevent wear and tear on the 'thumb support' next to the power connector and probably could also reduce some strain on the SD card slot. I would also think it would add pennies to the cost and offer a substantial value and increased durability to the product.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:21 am

RS was shipping theirs in a pink plastic case. I do not know if they still are.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:36 pm

OtherCrashOverride wrote:I would like to see some kind of 'entry level' (very thin, cheap, bare minimum of support and dust protection) clear plastic case to replace the cardboard box that the device ships in. This would prevent wear and tear on the 'thumb support' next to the power connector and probably could also reduce some strain on the SD card slot. I would also think it would add pennies to the cost and offer a substantial value and increased durability to the product.
That sounds like the "simple case" for the cubieboard. Two pieces of 1/8" plexiglass and a fistful of standoffs. It sells for $4, but it won't work with the Pi because i relies on there being 4 mounting holes.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:48 am

My simple wish for the Rev C is a more fleshed out GPIO pin setup.

Perhaps a chip that adds very fine control to the GPIO with more exact timings. E.G. You send a timing unpredictable signal to this chip and it produces the required output on the GPIO in a very time centric manner so that the RPi can do arduino like activities. (I probably worded this really badly)

Another option is more power available to the GPIO pins and maybe the USB ports so I could hook say a 10 amp supply to the pi and it power everything.

Another preference is that the GPIO pins are female instead of male connectors. It is so much simpler to plug stuff into the board not to mention that is a more standard way of doing things on electronics. With a main unit having female ports and the connecting device have male to prevent shorts and the like. Optional to this is to provide a female/female block with each pi that can just sit on top of the pins.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:47 am

pinkythepig wrote:My simple wish for the Rev C is a more fleshed out GPIO pin setup.

Perhaps a chip that adds very fine control to the GPIO with more exact timings. E.G. You send a timing unpredictable signal to this chip and it produces the required output on the GPIO in a very time centric manner so that the RPi can do arduino like activities. (I probably worded this really badly)

Another option is more power available to the GPIO pins and maybe the USB ports so I could hook say a 10 amp supply to the pi and it power everything.

Another preference is that the GPIO pins are female instead of male connectors. It is so much simpler to plug stuff into the board not to mention that is a more standard way of doing things on electronics. With a main unit having female ports and the connecting device have male to prevent shorts and the like. Optional to this is to provide a female/female block with each pi that can just sit on top of the pins.
That really does sound like a job for an extension board, not a model C. Whilst useful additions, they are very specific, and adding them would add cost for everyone, despite many buyers never needing them.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:27 pm

There is one thing I have noticed in these C Model posts.

Everyone asks for more memory, more connectors, more GPIO, better ARM, WiFi, etc.................

No one yet has asked for a better GPU!

So I guess there is one thing that everyone thinks is good enough!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:39 pm

Lob0426 wrote:There is one thing I have noticed in these C Model posts.

Everyone asks for more memory, more connectors, more GPIO, better ARM, WiFi, etc.................

No one yet has asked for a better GPU!

So I guess there is one thing that everyone thinks is good enough!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Agreed. And, I think, that will continue to be the case until people start doing things with the Pi that really stress the GPU. At the moment, about the only thing that I can think of that might do that would be an attempt to stream 4x or 8x HD...and even there, it's likely that other components would choke first, like the CPU or the data busses to external storage.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:57 pm

Lob0426 wrote:There is one thing I have noticed in these C Model posts.

Everyone asks for more memory, more connectors, more GPIO, better ARM, WiFi, etc.................

No one yet has asked for a better GPU!

So I guess there is one thing that everyone thinks is good enough!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Interesting post! When you consider the VC4 is over two years old now (or is it three?), it shows how good it was when first released. I'm not expecting a big move to higher definition video in the next few years - what would be better is higher frame rates but the VC4 is pretty much maxed out at 1080p30 encode/decode. The 3D performance is still impressive though, and its a pity we haven't seen much stuff out yet that really uses it.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:32 pm

Yes, i think that is exactly the point. It is not easy to use gpu in pi as there is only very few programs that are able to access it. So it would be nice if model c would come with better accessed gpu.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:08 pm

shuckle wrote:Yes, i think that is exactly the point. It is not easy to use gpu in pi as there is only very few programs that are able to access it. So it would be nice if model c would come with better accessed gpu.
Hmm. You seem to be unaware the the 3D system on the Raspi is the industry standard OpenGLES from Khronos, the 2D is OpenVG, and there is a standard EGL implementation. And for multimedia there is OpenMAX (and MMAL which is a easier to use system but Broadcom specific). These as a whole give access to all the main features of the GPU. It's not access to the features that are needed, it's people using the industry standard access that already exists.

All the Khronos implementations fully comply with the Khronos test suites, so it's not like there are idiosyncrasies to get round.

What doesn't exist is a way of accessing the GPU for use as general purpose compute. (something like OpenCL). But this is a minor issue.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:58 pm

Still haven't found out how to get the GPU to render *to* a texture, and recall it back for the arm, because then OpenGLES v2 would be more useful to me. The model C needs to be a super computer on the end of a cat5e which links to a model B. :D
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:38 am

There is not enough volume or need to warrant it, but, really a pin compatible replace for the BCM2835 would be nice. Something with the next generation up in ARM.

But there is just no real market for that. As far as I know the Raspberry Pi and the Roku2 are the main users of this SoC. There have been millions produced, but that is just not enough to drag out the drawing board I guess.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:46 am

James -

Want to see stuff using the GPU? Here you go...
http://www.silvercurve.co.uk/aperture.html

We're doing about 20 layers with animation at 60fps full HD, running videos whilst pre-cueing the next one, all sorts of tricks and stunts :)

If you're suitably impressed, take a look at the video at http://www.silvercurve.co.uk/invest.html

I LOVE the VC4 GPU. We're currently outperforming HTML5 on an Intel i7...

Bryan

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:38 am

Twinkletoes wrote:James -

Want to see stuff using the GPU? Here you go...
http://www.silvercurve.co.uk/aperture.html

We're doing about 20 layers with animation at 60fps full HD, running videos whilst pre-cueing the next one, all sorts of tricks and stunts :)

If you're suitably impressed, take a look at the video at http://www.silvercurve.co.uk/invest.html

I LOVE the VC4 GPU. We're currently outperforming HTML5 on an Intel i7...

Bryan
Thanks Brian, but those links are mostly just advertising! Anything more you can actually show? What I saw does look good, but not seeing many mentions of Raspi's on the site - is it all done with them?

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:50 am

jamesh wrote:The 3D performance is still impressive though, and its a pity we haven't seen much stuff out yet that really uses it.
To the average Fritz and Jo, Open GL (ES) is nothing to learn the easy and fun way as I've found out. Maybe having this GPU was important to not fail economically (XBMC, QIII demo), but in education it apparently plays a minor role. Likewise unimportant are its capabilities in server applications. So I think most applications are fine without this kind of GPUs.

OTOH, if it wasn't there, people would undoubtly ask for it :mrgreen:.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:02 am

Pm me and I'll send you some captures.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:35 am

thradtke wrote:
jamesh wrote:The 3D performance is still impressive though, and its a pity we haven't seen much stuff out yet that really uses it.
To the average Fritz and Jo, Open GL (ES) is nothing to learn the easy and fun way as I've found out. Maybe having this GPU was important to not fail economically (XBMC, QIII demo), but in education it apparently plays a minor role. Likewise unimportant are its capabilities in server applications. So I think most applications are fine without this kind of GPUs.

OTOH, if it wasn't there, people would undoubtly ask for it :mrgreen:.
But there are very few (if any) ARM SoC that don't have acceleration. Maybe not as high performance as the Raspi, but it's there. Hopefully, people will start to use it more and more. As you say, 3D graphics programs are not easy, but they are still an educational opportunity.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:35 am

I like these little discussions on what you would like to see added to the RPi. They are a kind of 'window' shopping for geeks. ;)

I think it is important that the system stays the same for a long time, fragmenting the user base could be problematic. At my last job I worked with some low end and high end PLC's and they stay the same for a very long time, and that is very good.

But my 'imaginations' on anther variant would be...

a) Slimline model. This would be a model A with no connectors (yup all gone) except for the one USB and a micro sdcard slot instead of the bigger sdcard slot. And if that saved any money replace the voltage regulators with switching ones people have used to get lower power usage.

b) The NAS model. Drop the HDMI and add SATA. I have no idea if the chip can support SATA, it may need to use the signalling from the HDMI? (I could be talking rubbish here) But a model targeting data acquisition where a USB->sata converter may not be enough.

Apart from that, the RPi is spot on. I have a much more powerful panda board, not used it for at least a year now. Why? Not much going on and it don't fit in robot cases. :D I've used both my RPi loads more and I think that speaks volumes for the quality and effort gone into the software.

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