MyFartSoTart
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Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:05 pm

So I plan on building arcade machines and selling them in the near future. Would it be legal to use RetroPie In the cabinets that I sell? Seems like most frontends frown upon it, but with retro pie I think you have to buy the raspberry pie already so would that be ok to do?

GOTO GOSUB
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:09 pm

From the Retropie website:
https://retropie.org.uk/about/legal/
If you are selling hardware that supports RetroPie you should provide a link to our site for your customers rather than including a RetroPie image with your product.
RetroPie does not ship with any copyrighted ROMs or games and does not condone illegal activity.

Make sure you own the distribution rights to any ROMs you plan on shipping with your cabinets.

PiGraham
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:15 pm

MyFartSoTart wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:05 pm
So I plan on building arcade machines and selling them in the near future. Would it be legal to use RetroPie In the cabinets that I sell? Seems like most frontends frown upon it, but with retro pie I think you have to buy the raspberry pie already so would that be ok to do?
Simple answer: no, not OK. Raspberry Pi Foundation don't make Retropie and what you want to sell is probably the games, which are most likely not free/not available legally. You could sell built cabinets without software or games loaded.

See GOTO GOSUB's answer for more detailed info.

MacUser2525
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:27 pm

PiGraham wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:15 pm
MyFartSoTart wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:05 pm
So I plan on building arcade machines and selling them in the near future. Would it be legal to use RetroPie In the cabinets that I sell? Seems like most frontends frown upon it, but with retro pie I think you have to buy the raspberry pie already so would that be ok to do?
Simple answer: no, not OK. Raspberry Pi Foundation don't make Retropie and what you want to sell is probably the games, which are most likely not free/not available legally. You could sell built cabinets without software or games loaded.

See GOTO GOSUB's answer for more detailed info.
It is released under the GPL anybody can do with it as they please the pi foundation does not get to change the rules for themselves and close the source donw. They are required by using others work under the GPL and having released the changes publicly to give access to all their changes and the source code they used to do it. Their own stuff like the firmware I have no idea of the license of it but it can be closed source if they wish. What others do with it that, if it is illegal is up to the people affected by their efforts having their copyright violated to sue for, not the Pi foundation or anyone else. This applies to anyone releasing software based on the GPL license. To the OP you can sell the console without the ROMs telling them they are on their own what they do with it, that includes the police showing up to to arrest them if it comes to their attention an they want to pursue the charges for violations of the ROM copyrights.

Dragontail281
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:46 pm

From what I have read on other threads, you can do what you like with the Pi after you purchase it. If I were to do it, I would build the cabinets, hook up the Pi, and include an instruction sheet on how to finish setting it up and get/install RetroPi, including the link to their site so they can get the most up to date version for the board you used. Of course, put which board is included in the cabinet so you can use different ones to offer different price points. Finding/getting ROMs would be on them, but it's not really hard to do with a few Google searches. By doing it this way, RetroPi still gets the traffic to their site, the customer can then contact them, or their forums, for questions about the software, and you aren't supplying any "illegal" games. You would need to put some sort of disclaimer when you are selling, saying something about needing a little computer skill when purchasing/setting up the cabinet, but it is really a pretty simple thing to do. I set up my first RetroPi system having little RPi/Linux knowledge, and now our son get's to play a bunch of old school games. I had thought of doing something similar with RPi0s, a camera, and MotionEyeOS, but getting multiple Zeros at one time is hard/impossible, and then pre-setting it up with the customers network info could be a bit sketchy. Good luck with your venture.
RPI3B+ - Raspberry Pi OS -general "playing" and/or RetroPi
RPI0W#1 - MotionEyeOS - yard surveillance
RPI0W#2 - Driveway gate monitor - coming soon
RPI0W#3 - ?????

PiGraham
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:27 pm

MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:27 pm

It is released under the GPL anybody can do with it as they please the pi foundation does not get to change the rules for themselves and close the source donw.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Pi foundation. Retropie is an independent open source project.

To expand on the licence on their image (rather than the source):
Legal & Contact
Licenses
RetroPie is a system to install/configure emulators on an existing OS – The RetroPie Setup Script is released under the GPL.

The image we provide is Raspbian Lite with RetroPie pre-installed. Much of the software included in the RetroPie image have non-commercial licences. Because of this selling a pre-installed RetroPie image is not legal – this includes “giving away” a pre-installed RetroPie with your commercial product. Including copyrighted games with RetroPie is also not allowed.

If you are selling hardware that supports RetroPie you should provide a link to our site for your customers rather than including a RetroPie image with your product.

https://retropie.org.uk/about/legal/
Plain enough.

MacUser2525
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:59 pm

PiGraham wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:27 pm
MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:27 pm

It is released under the GPL anybody can do with it as they please the pi foundation does not get to change the rules for themselves and close the source donw.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Pi foundation. Retropie is an independent open source project.

To expand on the licence on their image (rather than the source):
Legal & Contact
Licenses
RetroPie is a system to install/configure emulators on an existing OS – The RetroPie Setup Script is released under the GPL.

The image we provide is Raspbian Lite with RetroPie pre-installed. Much of the software included in the RetroPie image have non-commercial licences. Because of this selling a pre-installed RetroPie image is not legal – this includes “giving away” a pre-installed RetroPie with your commercial product. Including copyrighted games with RetroPie is also not allowed.

If you are selling hardware that supports RetroPie you should provide a link to our site for your customers rather than including a RetroPie image with your product.

https://retropie.org.uk/about/legal/
Plain enough.
Certainly was when I said it too.
What others do with it that, if it is illegal is up to the people affected by their efforts having their copyright violated to sue for, not the Pi foundation or anyone else.
Do not put words in my mouth that were not said.

Edit: and I would add there is serious lack of read comprehension on this place replaced in favour of the drive by ad hominem attacks.

BMS Doug
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:16 pm

MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:59 pm
PiGraham wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:27 pm
MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:27 pm
It is released under the GPL anybody can do with it as they please the pi foundation does not get to change the rules for themselves and close the source donw.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Pi foundation. Retropie is an independent open source project.

To expand on the licence on their image (rather than the source):
Much of the software included in the RetroPie image have non-commercial licences. Because of this selling a pre-installed RetroPie image is not legal – this includes “giving away” a pre-installed RetroPie with your commercial product.
Plain enough.
Certainly was when I said it too.
No, your post indicated that the OP could include retropie
MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:27 pm
To the OP you can sell the console without the ROMs telling them they are on their own what they do with it.
MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:59 pm
Edit: and I would add there is serious lack of read comprehension on this place replaced in favour of the drive by ad hominem attacks.
A lack of writing clarity in this instance at least.
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

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Mortimer
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:25 pm

Not sure where you're posting from...

If in Europe or UK won't you have the nightmare that is in Europe "CE", and in the UK "UKSA"?
--------------
The purpose of a little toe is to ensure you keep your furniture in the right place.

MacUser2525
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:00 pm

BMS Doug wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:16 pm

No, your post indicated that the OP could include retropie

MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:59 pm
Edit: and I would add there is serious lack of read comprehension on this place replaced in favour of the drive by ad hominem attacks.
A lack of writing clarity in this instance at least.
And the posting in that manner continues, the OP can most certainly include any GPL software he wishes, your continuing to imply I said any different is just more of your attack deliberately instigated again. It is not my fault if you cannot understand the English language and its usage. Perhaps some revisions of your lessons are in order...

Edit: Anyways enough of your moron bullshit.

BMS Doug
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:59 pm

MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:00 pm
And the posting in that manner continues, the OP can most certainly include any GPL software he wishes, your continuing to imply I said any different is just more of your attack deliberately instigated again. It is not my fault if you cannot understand the English language and its usage. Perhaps some revisions of your lessons are in order...

Edit: Anyways enough of your moron bullshit.
I think it's the way you write to people that triggers it.

The retropie installation script is released under GPL. The programs installed by that script are not all covered by the GPL and Retropie have made it clear that the noncommercial licences of items installed by the script would prohibit the selling of an item with retropie pre installed even though the retropie installation script is GPL.

Every time I re-read your post (and I read it several times before my first reply and several times again before this reply) I read it as saying that The OP can include Retropie but not ROMs.
You haven't been very clear in your statement but the negation of PiGrahams statement that Retropie should not be preinstalled because "It is released under the GPL anybody can do with it as they please" leads to the assumption that you are stating that the OP can include a pre-installed RetroPie image.

This is the assumption that has been addressed multiple times and you haven't clarified your position on the pre-installation of retropie but instead become aggressively insulting about defending yourself from perceived attacks.

When I stated that your post lacked writing clarity it is because your meaning was unclear and certainly wasn't "plain enough" when you said it.

Anyway, my desire was for clarification not attack and I'm sorry that you are upset.
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

MacUser2525
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:40 pm

You continue to deliberately do it. I have stated in no uncertain terms ROMs no, GPL software can be installed by anyone, anytime or anywhere. Unless you claim the software you talk about based on the raspian is somehow not GPL. Then your now continuing to seek clarification is just a ploy to be an asshole about it, apology or not the intent is the same twisting of my words. Now tell me again how you do not seek to give offence with your postings.

Edit: who knows if I will get to see another with the foe addition of your account.

plugwash
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:47 pm

MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:59 pm
the OP can most certainly include any GPL software he wishes,
However it is important to understand what is meant by GPL software. It means software released by it's copyright holders under the GPL.

The problem here is that the term "retropi" reffers to two distinct but related things. An installation script used to set up retroarch and associated software on the Pi and the system image that results from running that installation script.

The fact that an installer is released under the GPL, does not imply that all of the software installed by that installer is licensed under the GPL. The fact that an emulation frontend is released under the GPL does not imply that all the software used through that frontend are under the GPL.

The retropi installation script and the retroarch front end are under the GPL, and libretro is under the MIT license. However the cores for libretro are under a wide variety of different licenses, many of which have non-commercial use only clauses. As a result the retropi images are also subject to those non-commerical use clauses.
It is not my fault if you cannot understand the English language and its usage.
We understand english perfectly well.
Edit: Anyways enough of your moron bullshit.
Continuing like this will get you a ban.

MacUser2525
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:54 pm

plugwash wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:47 pm

Continuing like this will get you a ban.
Who cares the amount of drive by on this place with nothing said to them leaves little attractive about it. Only thing keeping me is me liking to help people. Oh and the MIT license like the BSD type of license is even less restrictive you can make commercial products from them unless you do not give them the credit they deserve by claiming the work as your own.

Edit: and I would add it even comes from the engineers, not you but others, that is how toxic this place is.
Edt2: though now i think about the lecturing on the additional license it could be consider that kind of thing. So there you are I call them as I see them as I have stated on a couple of occasions.

BMS Doug
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:29 pm

MyFartSoTart wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:05 pm
So I plan on building arcade machines and selling them in the near future. Would it be legal to use RetroPie In the cabinets that I sell? Seems like most frontends frown upon it, but with retro pie I think you have to buy the raspberry pie already so would that be ok to do?
So, back to topic.

RetroPi state on their website that you cannot sell a product with RetroPi installed.
MacUser2525 disagrees (at least I'm 99% sure that is their position).

RaspberryPi trading or foundation would probably have no official say on your use of retropi as it's not developed by them (except in so far as it uses raspberry pi os lite as a basis for the installation).

Ultimately it's your decision but the general consensus seems to be not to supply RetroPi.
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

Heater
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:44 pm

MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:54 pm
Edit: and I would add it even comes from the engineers, not you but others, that is how toxic this place is.
That is ridiculous. This forum is one of the least "toxic" havens on the internet.

You seem to be looking in the mirror. Please don't try to help me. I don't need the abuse. Thanks.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

PiGraham
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:04 pm

MacUser2525 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:40 pm
You continue to deliberately do it. I have stated in no uncertain terms ROMs no, GPL software can be installed by anyone, anytime or anywhere. Unless you claim the software you talk about based on the raspian is somehow not GPL.
It was clear on Retropie licence statement that the image includes non-GPL components.
Much of the software included in the RetroPie image have non-commercial licences.

hippy
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:35 pm

MyFartSoTart wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:05 pm
Would it be legal to use RetroPie In the cabinets that I sell?
That would be a question best directed at 'retropie' - https://retropie.org.uk

But it seems crystal clear to me - https://retropie.org.uk/about/legal ...
Selling a pre-installed RetroPie image is not legal – this includes "giving away" a pre-installed RetroPie with your commercial product.
So, my interpretation is, yes, it would be legal for people to use RetroPie in commercially sold cabinets but not for the manufacturer to breach the above terms.

MyFartSoTart
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:56 pm

Thank y’all for you’re help, I’ve seen a lot of people do it but it does seem to be against the law.

Heater
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:58 pm

I'm not sure why anyone is replying to anyone with such a repulsive username but here goes:

If you are selling anything that is using other people's software then be sure to check the license agreements attached to all such software. Some say you can some say you cannot. With whatever conditions thy have in their license. If there is no such permission you have to assume it is covered by the default laws of copyright and you cannot.

Of course it is even worse that that. Since the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_M ... yright_Act people have been getting into hot water for just suggesting how to get/use copyrighted content, even if they don't distribute it themselves.

If you are selling anything anything that involves hardware, like an arcade cabinet, be sure it complies with all the safety and other regulations that apply in the market you are selling into.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

BMS Doug
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:38 am

Heater wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:58 pm
I'm not sure why anyone is replying to anyone with such a repulsive username but here goes:
Astringent flatulatation doesn't offend me.
Incorrect statements from paranoid conspiracy theorists do, but I answer those too.
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

bjtheone
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:43 pm

MyFartSoTart wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:56 pm
Thank y’all for you’re help, I’ve seen a lot of people do it but it does seem to be against the law.
Lots of folks break the law, some even do it knowingly. As @Heater mentioned it gets even more complex in the US where they have layered on a fairly ridiculous set of restrictions and controls on top of copywrite and licensing laws. Luckily I lurk in Canada, which has more reasonable laws, though certain "normal activities" would likely be chargeable offenses if I crossed into the US with certain software on a device (smartphone, laptop, Pi).

Whether or not, as a small, likely online vendor you would get charged and prosecuted, for violating laws is certainly one aspect to consider. However, it does not change the fact that commercially distributing retro-pi violates their licensing, and likely exposes you to DMCA issues in the US.

Moonmarch
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Re: Selling Arcade Cabinets With RetroPie

Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:16 pm

Actually emulators require bios files that are dumped from a game console using a special designed peripheral. The game console needs to connect to the computer to dump the bios files. These bios files are used by the emulator. Without the bios files, you would not be able to use the console emulator. Downloading the bios files for the console emulator is supposedly copyright infringement. Who would purchase the peripherals to dump bios files on a computer? Who would purchase special equipment to extract game data files from a game cartridge? That is the reason why emulation is still around. Not every video game is worth money. To sell video games, you need to pay someone to sell the games.

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