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Lob0426
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:14 am

Unfortunately Vindicator is right. Look at some of the earliest project posts and many of those people are no longer posting or in other words contributing to this forum. Anyone remember the first poster for a UAV back what was it August?, September? I do not see them on anymore. Some of it is because of the timeline and some is due to the enormous changes from the original board as represented by the Alpha board and what is being produced right now. The killer for the UAV project was, most likely, the almost tripling of the power consumption on the newer board. This is something you just cannot afford in a world circling attemp.

Also he is right that the odds have been reduced drastically of any of the original people who posted here of getting a board in the next six months. I am sure that is where the frustration is coming from. It has been alluded to that companies might be able to buy in quantities before the end of the year. But it looks unlikely that many of the private buyers may see any this year. It depends how you look at it, And you already know I am not an optimist. I posted my project in August and have had the parts ready, then had to change gears and purchase more parts as the change in power.

Yes I can understand the frustration. Was this a CIVIL explanation of the problem?
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Jessie
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:41 am

These are forums people loose interest and stop posting on all kinds of forums due to all kinds of reasons.

May be some of these people got tired of waiting?  Who knows?  Possibly the found another alturnative?  A good bit of them just lost interest and moved on to another forum.  Just because someone posted a thread about a project they wanted to start dosn't mean they would have had the drive to make it happen.  Some of them would have but the reality is that far more people don't complete things than the people that do.  How many people do you know with a car rusting out back or in the garrage waiting on them to fix it up?  Not to mention various other hobbies and projects.  What I'm saying is pointing out people that no longer post here is not a good indication of people that gave up and moved on, it is just an indication of people that no longer post in the forums.

If it were up to me KME would have gotten banned some time agao.  Search for posts under his user name and look at some of his replies to people.  No one here owes you anything here, if your disapointed about production issues then go find another $35 PC project to troll.

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Vindicator
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:59 am

Hence civility hits the border again.

Calling people trolls with honest opinions is not that civil either is it.

Neither of us has even alluded about any kind of debt but you obviously need to be right some how.
If you are more worried about ,spelling, punctuation or grammar you have probably already missed the point so please just move on.

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Lob0426
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:42 am

So is an Honest Opinion post trolling? Look back at all of my post and then issue a decree as wether I am a troll.

I am a supporter of the Foundations work. I see todays kids spending their time texting. When I was their age I was learning to program (wish I had stuck with that now). Rebuilding Dirt Bikes and Cars. More than 30 years ago. I have on a number of occasions posted my opinion of the changes the foundation has made to the Raspi. I guess that is considered trolling.

Did you replace your last phone when the battery started getting weak or did you crack the case and replace the battery? Was that ever a project you were willing to tackle? Different people have different skill levels. I consider myself fair to middlin.

Do you think the foundation will appreciate you asking me to leave because YOU think I posted as a troll. I guess I forgot the IMHO at the end!

You should also remember that the Foundations ultimate goal is to have other RasPi type devices go into production so that there will be large numbers of base level boards available at low cost. They see this as a way to further the Foundations goal of inexpensive computing devices being available to schools and students. So they hope there will be OTHER $35 (PC? RasPi is not a PC) projects available.

Do you have another alternative? I really could have just made all things easier and ordered a couple of Panda boards. So why haven't I? As I said before I support the Foundation so I am just waiting. I don't have to be happy about it.

I believe it was stated earlier in this thread that too troll you had to be less than civil, Was I? Less than civil. Am I now less than civil in your opinion. Lets see I did remember to turn off the Caps key didn't I: yes, No foul language: nope, Didn't berate the foundation: nope, Challenged the admins opinion: yes. Sorry, that couldn't be helped. Sometimes to further communication it involves a challenge to a persons opinion.
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HB
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:07 am

Lob0426 said:


(PC? RasPi is not a PC)


That depends on what definition of PC you subscribe to. By the earliest used definition, which is that it is a personal computer as opposed to a mainframe, it is. By the more recent definition of the descendants of the IBM Personal Computer (TM) and its 100% Compatible clones, it isn't.

Anyway, I would like to join in in saying that I know how much of a pain it can be to co-ordinate various different elements of supply and what effect it can have for some elements of it to fall through by no fault of your own, and how much it sucks to cop the blame for it since you're the one supplying the thing to the end user. I appreciate you sticking through with it for a good cause, and understand that things will be ready when they're ready and there's no point complaining about delays. You have to put up with them as much as we do.

toxibunny
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:25 am

Sad to hear about the delay; glad to hear it"s on it"s way.
Raspi is a PC.
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

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Lob0426
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:47 am

Sorry it is an old school. As in IBM PC compatible. During that time there was MAC (Apple) TI (Texas Instruments) Tandy (Radio Shack) and others. Intel processor based rather than motorola and others. AMD is intel based. Everything else was described under its makers system of choice. The term is outdated but the RasPi does not have much in common with todays PC architecture.

From Wikipedia:

IBM PC compatible computers are those generally similar to the original IBM PC, XT, and AT. Such computers used to be referred to as PC clones, or IBM clones since they almost exactly duplicated all the significant features of the PC architecture, facilitated by various manufacturers' ability to legally reverse engineer the BIOS through clean room design. Columbia Data Products built the first clone of the IBM personal computer through a clean room implementation of its BIOS. Many early IBM PC compatibles used the same computer bus as the original PC and AT models. The IBM AT compatible bus was later named the Industry Standard Architecture bus by manufacturers of compatible computers. The term "IBM PC compatible" is now a historical description only since IBM has withdrawn from personal computer sales.

Descendants of the IBM PC compatibles make up the majority of personal computers on the market today, although interoperability with the bus structure and peripherals of the original PC architecture may be limited or non-existent.
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tufty
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:49 am

Despite being one of the ones unlikely to get a board (I"ll be on a plane from Canada to Switzerland on the 20th), and probably, given the demand by htpc creators, not until nearly a year after hearing about the pi, I will continue waiting.

In the meantime, a heartfelt thank you to Gert and all those involved in getting the datasheet out of the door.

Simon

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Chromatix
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:02 am

The datasheet has a few very interesting tidbits in it - and a lot of boring detail.  A few things are vague or underspecified, but it seems likely that extra details to fill that in are available in other documents (such as standards).

One of the most interesting and previously non-obvious things I noticed was the optional ability to use the GPU's L2 cache from the CPU - which would be a net win for applications or OSes that don't use the GPU's acceleration.  This is turned off by default for Linux, which does have access to the acceleration features, since presumably the GPU then relies on all of the L2's capacity.
The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

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Vindicator
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:28 am

sounds like you spent awhile reading through it thanks.
If you are more worried about ,spelling, punctuation or grammar you have probably already missed the point so please just move on.

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:32 am

Lob0426 said:


Sorry it is an old school. As in IBM PC compatible.


Like I said... that is what you mean by PC, but not what Jessie did when using the term. And if you want to use the "old school" term, then it is the generic one for computers that aren't mainframes, since that usage dates back to either 1962, 1968 or 1977, depending on whether you're talking about the first usage of the term, the first usage associated with a particular product, or the first usage associated with a particular product that actually got anywhere, respectively. As opposed to 1981, when the first IBM PC was released.

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scep
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:35 am

atomant said:


These statements are ridiculous.  Those who question the institution will be banned?


No - those who whine and stamp their feet and criticise when they have no place to, just because they didn't get an Action Man with Gripping Hands for their birthday when they really, really deserve one, will be banned.

This about sums it up:

NSB : The website is fascinating as you really get a feel for the process of designing and manufacturing this device.

Eben Upton : It’s interesting to do this thing in public. Hardly anyone ever tries to do this in public. What this means is that we said we would like to get this out in the fourth quarter of 2011 but we hit some problems and some people were critical. By December we had some, but only a trial quantity. And now we are in February and I’m saying that we are only a couple of weeks away. If we had gone into stealth mode we wouldn’t be having this and it would be easier in some ways, but it would also be harder because I very much enjoy some of the lovely email that I get, encouraging email that keeps you going when things get tough, something that we would be deprived of if we were in stealth mode.

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:36 am

Now I see the reason why Apple don't announce product until they have a warehouse full of gadgets – it keeps the faithful happy, praying at the shrine for new product and not whining because production slipped by a couple of months.

GET AN EFFIN LIFE, YOU BUNCH OF WHINING CREEPS.

Huh, there, I've said it.  I've read through this thread, which has expanded from 1 page to 4 pages since I last saw it at 11pm GMT yesterday, and the thing thats struck me most is the sheer amount of intolerance and bloodymindedness that some people possess.  They have a position and everyone else, the Foundation, other members of the forum, are out of step.

I'm not going to argue the theology of "what was promised when" because I have not seen any promises made, just announcments that one phase or another has been achieved, that a stage has commenced.  Unlike manufactureres like Apple, the Foundation has given us the privelege of seeing the final stages of development in all its gory detail.  Unforseen things DO happen, timescales DO drift, no matter how good intentions are.  AND THERES NO FAULT THERE.  Get over your natural disappointment and accept that these things happen and don't go running your mouth off like a spoiled child.

One thing we HAVE been told is that the first batch may emerge towards the end of the month, that numbers will be limited and that production will ramp up to meet demand.  So I hope you won't be bawling that you missed out when the store opens its doors for the sale of the first Pi's and you don't get one.

So just sit back and grab a bit of perspective.  Eh?

And just to annoy the "on topic" fascists, I see that this is my 280th post.  So lets celebrate Whytes Notation yet again! 

2-8-0  This example is of the famous GWR 28xx class. (other Railways and classes are available...)
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:26 am

fireraisr said:


my teleporter fries anything that isn't in a faraday cage due to the phase distortion field.


What happens if you want to teleport a Faraday cage?

error404
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:33 am

Jongoleur said:


Now I see the reason why Apple don't announce product until they have a warehouse full of gadgets – it keeps the faithful happy, praying at the shrine for new product and not whining because production slipped by a couple of months.


Perhaps you should look at the bigger picture and realize that the folks that are here, spending their time on this forum, are the ones most likely to actually contribute to the project. If they're feeling disenfranchised due to the absurd level of publicity around this project and the continual pushing of it while it is quite clear that demand is going to outstrip supply by an order of magnitude or more, I don't think that's good for the project.

Shit happens, but OTOH every missed deadline is another 100,000 users in line for a cheap HTPC that aren't going to contribute to the project, and it's another 100 developers that have been waiting here for 6 months for a board that won't get one. Personally I can wait, I'm pretty patient and have no urgent need for this board, but I really don't think this publicity, XBMC announcement and so on is helping the project right now, and the delays only make that negative impact worse. Perhaps it just got out of hand, but the publicity is not good right now, it was too much too early and the price you pay is having unhappy users and frustrating or perhaps driving away the core of your support.

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:39 am

There's a brand new Porsche dealership being built near me, and over the past month I have watched all the various parts of that project come to a head. They have landscaped and tarmac'ed the parking lot outside, installed all the signage, fitted CCTV and lights, office furniture, fencing, and electrics are going in.

Really impressive to see it all coming together. I know that Porsche will be throwing many millions at this project, and they no doubt employ more people just to fit the hand dryers in the loo than the entire Foundation employs, so it just brings home how much the Foundation are achieving on a relative shoestring, and with many people doing this alongside their day job.

Again (I've said this in a few posts) - kudos to the team for getting so far, and now the finish line is in sight.

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:00 am


Jongoleur said:

I fear that the seekers of esoteric knowledge will decide that it doesn't answer all their questions in those 205 closely packed pages, and there'll be tears and pouts a'plenty.  Oh well, I'm going to put it on my Kindle and people looking over my shoulder on the train will think I'm an electronics whizz-kid……


+1
I sometimes ride my Pi to the Forum.

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:04 am

Glad to hear things are going well. Thanks for the datasheet, plenty to look at

Did mean to post as comment on frontpage, but the comment box just keeps asking me to type in the password even though I have - Anywho.

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:05 am

error404 said:


Perhaps it just got out of hand, but the publicity is not good right now, it was too much too early and the price you pay is having unhappy users and frustrating or perhaps driving away the core of your support.


To be fair I suspect that the level of interest is way beyond anyone's expectations, the Foundation's included.  But to expect a charity - whose staff are working vountarily and have even put their own money up front - to throttle back on publicity because it may upset a few people is absurd. ll

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:09 am

scep said:

No - those who whine and stamp their feet and criticise when they have no place to, just because they didn't get an Action Man with Gripping Hands for their birthday when they really, really deserve one, will be banned.
Gripping hands were a bad idea; the fingers always broke off. Fortunately my Action Man was from an earlier generation.

I just want to say, Well done everyone for getting this far. Just a couple of weeks now, (and then a couple more waiting for the aeroplane to land ).

Thanks for the datasheet, and thanks for keeping us in the loop.

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:16 am

error404 said:


Perhaps you should look at the bigger picture and realize that the folks that are here, spending their time on this forum, are the ones most likely to actually contribute to the project. If they"re feeling disenfranchised due to the absurd level of publicity around this project and the continual pushing of it while it is quite clear that demand is going to outstrip supply by an order of magnitude or more, I don"t think that"s good for the project.

Shit happens, but OTOH every missed deadline is another 100,000 users in line for a cheap HTPC that aren"t going to contribute to the project, and it"s another 100 developers that have been waiting here for 6 months for a board that won"t get one. Personally I can wait, I"m pretty patient and have no urgent need for this board, but I really don"t think this publicity, XBMC announcement and so on is helping the project right now, and the delays only make that negative impact worse. Perhaps it just got out of hand, but the publicity is not good right now, it was too much too early and the price you pay is having unhappy users and frustrating or perhaps driving away the core of your support.


Well, publicity can be good or bad, but I don't think the Foundation has been reckless in courting publicity.  As I see it, posting information on the Pi blog is more in the way of information than publicity.  Forum members and hangers on who post stories about the Pi and it's abilities in places like Slashdot and HTPC interest groups are the instigators that cause the hype and insatiable desire to own a Pi.  I think that is the "bigger picture", not the Foundations attempts to keep interested parties in the loop.

Would YOU or any of the other impatient ones who feel disenfranchised know about the Pi project if it were not for some "publicity"? Or would you rather, now that you know about it, prefer that the greater unwashed be kept in the dark?

To be honest, it doesn't matter WHO buys the first batch.  As I understand things, the demand will drive the speed of production and the more who buy, then more will be produced. In my experience, once a flow has been established, then its far easier to keep it going. As distribution is centralised, there won't be the problems of getting stock out to wholesalers and retailers; there's a pretty direct link from the factory to the end user and I think that Pi's will get into the hands of those who want them sooner than you fear will be the case. Even if they want to use it for a media centre.  Now thats a Big Picture! 
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n3tw0rk5
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:17 am

Thats what i like to see on a frosty Tuesday mornin, plenty of happy campers

My dad taught me something as a nipper, that I"ve regularly told my kids over the years when they been whining after something "I want, never gets".

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:22 am

We live in a society where instant gratification is the norm. Children are brought up with with a sense of entitlement. Over Christmas the twittersphere was full of angry rants from children who did not get an ipad/ipod/iphone/iwhatever from their parents. The best of these have been collected together. The bile and venom from the ungrateful little sh1ts is incredible. Enjoy.

http://www.padgadget.com/2011/.....e-you-now/

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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:32 am

n3tw0rk5 said:


Thats what i like to see on a frosty Tuesday mornin, plenty of happy campers



Certainly warms the cockles, and impresses one with the sweet reasonableness of ones fellow man*.

* "Man" being used as indicating the totality of humanity and not as a gender-devisive term...

(there are 2-8-2 locos too, eg the GWR 42xx class )
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

peterpi
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:01 am

My F5 key would like to pass on its thanks for a fortnight's holiday.  Good luck with the rest of the production run.

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