JoeRejimen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:43 pm

No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:57 pm

Code: Select all

$uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 4.19.66-v7+ #1253 SMP Thu Aug 15 11:49:46 BST 2019 armv7l GNU/Linux
When I right-click the speaker icon in the tray and choose Analog it is checked off with a green check mark.
When I right-click it again, the check mark is still there.
When I click the speaker, the volume is always at zero. Whether I drag the slider up or turn the mouse wheel, the volume slider rises but there is still no sound. If I right-click the speaker icon after either action, the green check mark on Analog is gone.
I used raspi-config to force Analog and rebooted but there is no change.
I get no sound whatsoever from sound-test, Youtube, or VLC.

The module is loaded, alsamixer sets volume successfully for both PA and ALSA cards but still at 100% volume no sound comes out. I checked with an oscilloscope and there is no signal whatsoever on any of the audio jack pins.

Code: Select all

$ lsmod |grep snd
snd_bcm2835            24576  2
snd_pcm               102400  1 snd_bcm2835
snd_timer              32768  1 snd_pcm
snd                    73728  7 snd_timer,snd_bcm2835,snd_pcm
What is missing?
Attachments
alsa-info.txt.zip
(2.05 KiB) Downloaded 16 times

LTolledo
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm

first thing to try:
confirm that the audio is set to analog, then reboot, then try the audio again.
when changing audio outputs (by right clicking on the speaker icon) the software/app that needs to output audio must be first closed, then change the audio output, then re-start the software/app that will use the audio.
if there is audio on the amplifier connected speakers then its OK

if there is no audio, plug a known-working wired headphone (the one with a 3.5mm plug) to the analog jack and confirm if there is audio actually coming out of the jack.
if there is audio on the headphone either
a. the audio cable used to connect to the RPi and the Amp is faulty
b. the audio-in port of the external amplifier is faulty

if there is no audio from the headphone:
check if audio can be output via HDMI connected monitor with known working internal speakers (HDMI cable must also be a known good cable)
if there is no audio on the HDMI connected monitor speakers, no audio may be due to faulty software configuration
if there is audio on the monitor, either:
1. it may be faulty software configuration
2. the analog jack (or the connections to it) is faulty, thus a faulty board

one last thing to try:
get a cheap I2S audio DAC, like those those hifiberry clones
after installation and configuration, connect it to your external amplifier...
you'll get a better audio from an I2S audio DAC.... specially if connected to an external amplifier....
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

JoeRejimen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:56 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm
first thing to try:
confirm that the audio is set to analog, then reboot, then try the audio again.
Confirmed ad nauseam.
LTolledo wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm
when changing audio outputs (by right clicking on the speaker icon) the software/app that needs to output audio must be first closed, then change the audio output, then re-start the software/app that will use the audio.
Closed, started, restarted, rebooted ad nauseam.
LTolledo wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm
if there is no audio from the headphone:
check if audio can be output via HDMI connected monitor with known working internal speakers (HDMI cable must also be a known good cable)
We do not have HDMI audio inputs available. If we had, I would not have been banging my head on the wall about ananlog.
LTolledo wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm
if there is no audio on the HDMI connected monitor speakers, no audio may be due to faulty software configuration
if there is audio on the monitor, either:
1. it may be faulty software configuration
2. the analog jack (or the connections to it) is faulty, thus a faulty board
I've put an o-scope to the leads on the PCB and found no signal. This has nothing to do with the jack.
LTolledo wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm
one last thing to try:
get a cheap I2S audio DAC, like those those hifiberry clones
after installation and configuration, connect it to your external amplifier...
you'll get a better audio from an I2S audio DAC.... specially if connected to an external amplifier....
Our donors have already paid Raspberry for their product on the premise that they have analog audio output. We are not interested in incurring additional cost. I have a classroom full of these in the middle of nowhere and it is a catastrophe because none of them work.

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rpiMike
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:42 am

Your version info looks old.

I suggest you flash an sd card with the latest Raspberry Pi OS.

What cable are you using to connect the amplifier?

LTolledo
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Location: Anime Heartland

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:49 am

JoeRejimen wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:56 pm
Our donors have already paid Raspberry for their product on the premise that they have analog audio output. We are not interested in incurring additional cost. I have a classroom full of these in the middle of nowhere and it is a catastrophe because none of them work.
as the statement above was not given on the first post
the advice was given based on the assumption that the OP was doing it for own use...

in light of recent developments....
“...there has been an error processing your request....”
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

fruitoftheloom
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Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:25 am

JoeRejimen wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:57 pm

Code: Select all

$uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 4.19.66-v7+ #1253 SMP Thu Aug 15 11:49:46 BST 2019 armv7l GNU/Linux
When I right-click the speaker icon in the tray and choose Analog it is checked off with a green check mark.
When I right-click it again, the check mark is still there.
When I click the speaker, the volume is always at zero. Whether I drag the slider up or turn the mouse wheel, the volume slider rises but there is still no sound. If I right-click the speaker icon after either action, the green check mark on Analog is gone.
I used raspi-config to force Analog and rebooted but there is no change.
I get no sound whatsoever from sound-test, Youtube, or VLC.

The module is loaded, alsamixer sets volume successfully for both PA and ALSA cards but still at 100% volume no sound comes out. I checked with an oscilloscope and there is no signal whatsoever on any of the audio jack pins.

Code: Select all

$ lsmod |grep snd
snd_bcm2835            24576  2
snd_pcm               102400  1 snd_bcm2835
snd_timer              32768  1 snd_pcm
snd                    73728  7 snd_timer,snd_bcm2835,snd_pcm
What is missing?

Your Operating System is very out of date, would advice start with a fresh install and fully update:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... pdating.md
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machine is a ChromeBox

JoeRejimen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:23 pm

rpiMike wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:42 am
Your version info looks old.

I suggest you flash an sd card with the latest Raspberry Pi OS.

What cable are you using to connect the amplifier?
Newer versions are too slow and take too much space. Unless this version is known to have no sound, which we could not find information about, we are reluctant to upgrade.
The cable is irrelevant since there is no signal at the PCB pins of the connector.+

On top of this, your suggestion to upgrade may sound like an effort that is free, but newer versions do not install themselves onto our 8 GB SD cards, and I will have to tinker to create an install image and then clone it onto 30 more SD cards, that will take me another couple days. This is not free. It is huge undertaking in terms of logistics and work time. Before we undertake it we want to exhaust any troubleshooting opportunities with the OS that we already have on the cards.
Last edited by JoeRejimen on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ganzgustav22
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:04 pm

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:55 pm

When looking here:
https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspb ... _notes.txt

One can see that Raspbian 2019-07-10 comes with 4.19.57 and the next release Raspbian 2019-09-26 comes with Kernel version 4.19.75.

You wrote that you are using Kernel 4.19.66 which suggests it has been upgraded. Maybe through rpi-update? This could've also upgraded the firmware to an unstable or not well tested version. I'd try again with a completely fresh and unchanged Raspbian release to make sure it's not caused by updated kernels and/or firmwares.

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rpiMike
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Location: Cumbria, UK

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:56 pm

JoeRejimen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:23 pm
rpiMike wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:42 am
Your version info looks old.

I suggest you flash an sd card with the latest Raspberry Pi OS.

What cable are you using to connect the amplifier?
Newer versions are too slow and take too much space. Unless this version is known to have no sound, which we could not find information about, we are reluctant to upgrade.
The cable is irrelevant since there is no signal at the PCB pins of the connector.
The latest version runs fine on my Pi3B, plenty of space on a 16GB card, bad idea running old software. Would not take long to test on a spare sd card.

The cable is not irrelevant, if you are using a 4 pole 3.5mm TRRS cable, you may have the wrongly wired cable.

fruitoftheloom
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Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:11 pm

JoeRejimen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:23 pm
rpiMike wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:42 am
Your version info looks old.

I suggest you flash an sd card with the latest Raspberry Pi OS.

What cable are you using to connect the amplifier?
Newer versions are too slow and take too much space. Unless this version is known to have no sound, which we could not find information about, we are reluctant to upgrade.
The cable is irrelevant since there is no signal at the PCB pins of the connector.

Please provide evidence that a newer Raspberry Pi OS is slower and eats space, otherwise it is just hot air.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machine is a ChromeBox

JoeRejimen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:39 pm

ganzgustav22 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:55 pm
When looking here:
https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspb ... _notes.txt

One can see that Raspbian 2019-07-10 comes with 4.19.57 and the next release Raspbian 2019-09-26 comes with Kernel version 4.19.75.

You wrote that you are using Kernel 4.19.66 which suggests it has been upgraded. Maybe through rpi-update? This could've also upgraded the firmware to an unstable or not well tested version. I'd try again with a completely fresh and unchanged Raspbian release to make sure it's not caused by updated kernels and/or firmwares.
Absurd. It's been freshly installed and updated/upgraded with apt.
rpiMike wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:56 pm
The cable is not irrelevant, if you are using a 4 pole 3.5mm TRRS cable, you may have the wrongly wired cable.
There is no signal on the pins of the 3.5mm jack. The cable is indeed irrelevant. The OS resets the volume to zero upon audio interface switch and clears the interface selection upon volume adjustment. This is a software problem.

I have 30 standard 3.5mm cables going to powered speakers. This setup works fine with any PC but not with Pi. I am a qualified electronics repair technitian of 25 years standing and can figure out pinout and conductivity but the best part is that I do not need to: both work with a PC. Also, in my 25 years in the industry I have never heard of the speaker manufacturer (Edifier in our case) ship a wrong 3.5mm cable with their product. The excuse that I may have a wrong cable and not know it does not hold water.

Does anyone here have humanity to stop accusing me of having wrong accessories or messing up a fresh install of the OS and focus on troubleshooting? I have a classroom of low-income youth starting in a few days on a basic IT skill course but they will have no sound if this is not figured out.

JoeRejimen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:41 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:11 pm
Please provide evidence that a newer Raspberry Pi OS is slower and eats space, otherwise it is just hot air.
Simple. After the install of the newer NOOBS starts, it adjust partitions on our 8 GB cards so that there is 5100 MB free space. Newer Raspbian takes a minimum of 5300. Right back at ya. I am not going to respond to any further interogations.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:48 pm

JoeRejimen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:41 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:11 pm
Please provide evidence that a newer Raspberry Pi OS is slower and eats space, otherwise it is just hot air.
Simple. After the install of the newer NOOBS starts, it adjust partitions on our 8 GB cards so that there is 5100 MB free space. Newer Raspbian takes a minimum of 5300. Right back at ya. I am not going to respond to any further interogations.

Using NoobS is no longer recommended and that will save 1+ GB space.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machine is a ChromeBox

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mahjongg
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:12 pm

If I'm not mistaken firmware for the RPI3 and 4 now switches off the PWM engines needed for analog sound to save some energy, and you have to purposefully turn them back on so you can use analog audio.
Sorry I don't know the details, this is from memory, I think it was in the launch blog of the RPI4.

JoeRejimen
Posts: 14
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:13 pm

This is the forum for complaining. We bought 30 pieces of this hardware for cash. We paid money but did not get our money's worth. And now that I report the problem I am being told anything but help. No one made a slightest attempt to assist in troubleshooting. You are twisting and spinning the situation, making baseless accusations, not paying attention to anything that I type, and I find it most unethical.

Anyhow, I've wasted 3 hours to get the "latest and greatest" image. It does have sound but it takes 3x times longer to boot and each application takes 3x times longer to start.
Chromium is raining "tab unresponsive, wait?" warnings, system font setting is not saved/honored, weather applet location does not know our location whereas the old version did.
Bottom line is that we cannot afford wasting classroom time on students waiting 3x times longer for every action. We will have to live with lack of sound because we cannot afford performace degradation of the new version. Software is supposed to become better with every new release, or at least there should be some justification for pushing new releases out, but it is the other way around.

So back to the sound. The volume is no longer reset to zero on the card change. Adjusting the volume no longer clears the card selection. This means that the older release that we have installed WAS NOT TESTED AT ALL before shipping out and no one at all bothered to release and push out a fix for this. They have chosen to fix it in a completely new version. This kind of behaviour is inconsiderate towards paying customers. Nothing comes free. Time of IT support like me costs money and publishing defective releases wastes that.

I will make sure that this is our last project where we use the Pi. The small upfront savings are not worth the time wasted down the road and fighting fires in emergency mode.
Last edited by JoeRejimen on Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JoeRejimen
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:15 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:12 pm
If I'm not mistaken firmware for the RPI3 and 4 now switches off the PWM engines needed for analog sound to save some energy, and you have to purposefully turn it on so you can use analog audio.
Sorry I don't know the details, this is from memory, I think it was in the launch blog of the RPI4.
This is the 1st attempt to help in this entire thread, and I appreciate it!
I thought that by using raspi-config I've overridden this setting, but I could be wrong.
Any idea where I can read up more on this feature of disabled audio? Because the latest image does have it OOB, I assume that it is a software thing and the old image just needs some setting to emit sound.

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mahjongg
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:39 pm

I will ask some other moderators what is up with this.

Remember that all posters here are helping you voluntarily and they do react to how things are asked, I actually got a complaint about your behaviour that brought me to this thread. I agree that just turning PWM off without extensive warnings is a bad thing, but analog audio isn't really popular any more, and the RPI400 doesn't even have an analog audio port anymore, so analog audio is discouraged.

Ill see what I can do for you.

JoeRejimen
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:57 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:39 pm
I will ask some other moderators what is up with this.

Remember that all posters here are helping you
They are not. No one but you made any slightest attempts to help. They only keep repeating the "upgrade" mantra.
mahjongg wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:39 pm
voluntarily and they do react to how things are asked, I actually got a complaint about your behaviour that brought me to this thread. I agree that just turning PWM off without extensive warnings is a bad thing, but analog audio isn't really popular any more, and the RPI400 doesn't even have an analog audio port anymore, so analog audio is discouraged.

Ill see what I can do for you.
You got a complaint from an unrelated 3d party about a paying customer who is having a problem but getting nowhere with it? This is rich!

But back to the analog audio issue. The plot thickens.

Code: Select all

omxplayer -o local blahblah.avi
plays with audio. Still no sound from any other app. Pavucontrol is silent, even though its meters show volume being played when volume is adjusted or speaker-test is playing.

What is OMXplayer doing differently from all other software?

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DougieLawson
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:11 pm

JoeRejimen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:57 pm

You got a complaint from an unrelated 3d party about a paying customer who is having a problem but getting nowhere with it? This is rich!
Excuse me, how much are you paying to get support from this forum?
Oh yes, nothing, zip, nada, zilch, absolutely zero and you have the bare faced cheek to complain.

You'll get nothing from me with an attitude like that.
Any language using left-hand whitespace for syntax is ridiculous

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
Fake doctors - are all on my foes list.

Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

JoeRejimen
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:30 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:11 pm
Excuse me, how much are you paying to get support from this forum?
We've bought a classroom full of Pi. And this is the official support forum of Raspberry. No one forces you to be there, but I, as a paying customer of this organisation, am entitled to ask questions. That you are not willing to answer them is perfectly fine: I do not recall insisting that you do.

emma1997
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:50 pm

JoeRejimen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:13 pm
This is the forum for complaining.
Looks like you came to the right place then since that seems to be #1 hobby for you.

I will say I have two Pi3B+ at my location that are outputting analog audio fine. So not likely a defect in design or production.

JoeRejimen
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:02 pm

emma1997 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:50 pm
Looks like you came to the right place then since that seems to be #1 hobby for you.

I will say I have two Pi3B+ at my location that are outputting analog audio fine. So not likely a defect in design or production.
Great. Thanks for the Info! But you have different hardware so not sure if you only pitched in to make a snide remark. I kindly invite everyone who is not ready to help with troubleshooting to stay away from this topic since it is growing but no actual troubleshooting is taking place.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:10 pm

JoeRejimen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:02 pm
emma1997 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:50 pm
Looks like you came to the right place then since that seems to be #1 hobby for you.

I will say I have two Pi3B+ at my location that are outputting analog audio fine. So not likely a defect in design or production.
Great. Thanks for the Info! But you have different hardware so not sure if you only pitched in to make a snide remark. I kindly invite everyone who is not ready to help with troubleshooting to stay away from this topic since it is growing but no actual troubleshooting is taking place.

I suggested using Pi-Imager to create a bootable Raspberry Pi with Desktop OS SD Card and then fully updating, but got a weird response so not sure in this fog if it helped.



Regards this Forum the hosting is paid by RPF / RPT, though it is actually run totally and utterly on a community voluntary basis.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machine is a ChromeBox

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DougieLawson
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Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:20 pm

JoeRejimen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:30 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:11 pm

Excuse me, how much are you paying to get support from this forum?
Oh yes, nothing, zip, nada, zilch, absolutely zero and you have the bare faced cheek to complain.

We've bought a classroom full of Pi. And this is the official support forum of Raspberry. No one forces you to be there, but I, as a paying customer of this organisation, am entitled to ask questions. That you are not willing to answer them is perfectly fine: I do not recall insisting that you do.
You are not entitled to any support for a $35 computer, try getting free support from Microsoft or Apple or HP or Dell (even when you've paid $1000 for your laptop).

If you want official support you're going to have to pay someone to support you, expect that to cost around USD$750/day or more.
Any language using left-hand whitespace for syntax is ridiculous

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
Fake doctors - are all on my foes list.

Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

JoeRejimen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: No analog sound through an external amplifier on Rpi 3B v1.2

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:23 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:10 pm
I suggested using Pi-Imager to create a bootable Raspberry Pi with Desktop OS SD Card and then fully updating, but got a weird response so not sure in this fog if it helped.
This has been done. I do not know what response you are referring to or what your definition of weird is, but this descibes the result of trying the latest image. It is unacceptably slow, and we have already planned the course material, so no, we are not upgrading. This is the gist of it.
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:10 pm
Regards this Forum the hosting is paid by RPF / RPT, though it is actually run totally and utterly on a community voluntary basis.
Since Raspberry foundation is running this portal under its own domain, and we have a customer-supplier relationship with Raspberry, I will continue reaching out to Raspberry Foundation through this resource.

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