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Lob0426
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:29 pm

DanielSilva: Have an iPhone4 not much they will let you do unless it is unlocked. Same with my iPad2 so far, but I have not looked into jailbreaking it yet. Still under warranty. None of my linksys routers allow a change to the clock due to overheating. It sounds like we can get a little bit more out of the RasPi, If you get a good one. Getting it to 800Mhz on the rest is nothing to cry about in any case. I have a WRT54G v3 but the wireless throughput is real low. Not sure what the problem is. So it will be new to me.

We will see when they are finally out.

A little analogy here: JEEP for years basically ignored the after market. Then finally out they came with the Rubicon. It had dozens of changes that reflected that it had finally listened to what people wanted in the JEEP TJ.

There is always something the product users have to contribute, it is a question of whether the manufacturers listen. Here they are listening before the product even comes out. It bodes well for a manufacturer connected with it's customers. Keep up the good work, and an ear open.
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:05 pm

I just want to add my two cents: First I'm really happy that the project is there and alive! There were so many affords in creating open source devices or hacking existing (closed) devices, where the community didn't even got to that point of having working OpenGL drivers. I see it also as a big advantage, that members of this project belong to the chip manufacturer itself and even they are members of the core design team, so I expect that we get good working drivers. I also think, that the days of fully opening the hardware are more or less gone - and such a project is by far better than one can expect. I'm looking forward in getting 1-2 RaspberryPi. Keep on doing your good work!
-Klaus

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:21 pm

Quote from klausr on September 11, 2011, 18:05
I just want to add my two cents: First I'm really happy that the project is there and alive! There were so many affords in creating open source devices or hacking existing (closed) devices, where the community didn't even got to that point of having working OpenGL drivers. I see it also as a big advantage, that members of this project belong to the chip manufacturer itself and even they are members of the core design team, so I expect that we get good working drivers. I also think, that the days of fully opening the hardware are more or less gone - and such a project is by far better than one can expect. I'm looking forward in getting 1-2 RaspberryPi. Keep on doing your good work!
-Klaus


What he said!
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:58 pm

This thread is a most remarkable thing. I went to bed last night and the night before full of righteous fury. Tonight, Klausr's post has left me with super-duper warm fuzzies (although that could also be something to do with the 8-mile hike between Cornish megaliths, the cream tea, the steam room, the boutique hotel I'm reviewing for work this weekend and the Michelin starred dinner).

I'm really glad so many of our forum members understand what the issues we're facing here are, open-wise, and it's been incredibly heartening to read some of the posts here from the last couple of days. I know we're not going to convince everybody with what we're doing no matter how hard we try, but I can tell you that the whole team is really encouraged by your enthusiasm and understanding. Thank you!
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:46 am

Quote from SpaceHobo on September 10, 2011, 22:21
Ah, I see. You may have confused pragmatism with short-term thinking. The two concepts are not the same, and are, in fact, at odds.


Pragmatism and short term thinking are indeed two different concepts. But they are not necessarily at odds. They may or may not be conflicting. In this case, I would suggest they principally coincide.
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ubergeek63
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:24 am

Quote from liz on September 9, 2011, 23:01
Absolutely - and we at the foundation agree with you. I realise that some people are very passionate about open source hardware - I hope they realise that we are very passionate about what we do too. We are trying to do some good here, and it's been really disappointing to me that we can't please all of the people all of the time; unfortunately, we have to live in a real world with a real economy, and so we've had to make this single compromise.
Liz,

Along the lines of pleasing more of the people...what would it be to have a third version that only goosed the memory up to the 512K or G level required for the new Android versions?

I seems to me that these days that would be of more interest than the ethernet phy.

Dan

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:32 am

Quote from ubergeek63 on September 12, 2011, 11:24
Quote from liz on September 9, 2011, 23:01
Absolutely - and we at the foundation agree with you. I realise that some people are very passionate about open source hardware - I hope they realise that we are very passionate about what we do too. We are trying to do some good here, and it's been really disappointing to me that we can't please all of the people all of the time; unfortunately, we have to live in a real world with a real economy, and so we've had to make this single compromise.
Liz,

Along the lines of pleasing more of the people...what would it be to have a third version that only goosed the memory up to the 512K or G level required for the new Android versions?

I seems to me that these days that would be of more interest than the ethernet phy.

Dan

512MB PoP of the right size are pretty difficult to come by, and therefor expensive. Also, does the latest Android run on Arm11?

But I agree, that would be more useful that an extra ethernet port.

James
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alexu
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:43 pm

It would be nice if at least the arm side of things would be open source but if not I just hope that broadcom keeps up their end of the bargin (bugfixes as time progresses ?)

Quote from hippy on September 10, 2011, 04:14
I don't really see how it's counter-productive but perhaps I'm just too pragmatic. At $25 with all the R-Pi offers I'd be happy if all the firmware were in ROM, entirely closed, and all I could run from SD Card were Perl scripts or similar. As it is the R-Pi is much more than that.


Perl scripts *are* more useful than ubuntu with constant kernel freezes bc of graphic card drivers (yes it happened to me and it's very distracting)

ubergeek63
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:14 pm

Quote from jamesh on September 12, 2011, 12:32
512MB PoP of the right size are pretty difficult to come by, and therefor expensive. Also, does the latest Android run on Arm11?

But I agree, that would be more useful that an extra ethernet port.

James
3.0 looks like 512M but I do not see ARM 11. 2.3 has ARM11 and I have seen it run in 256M

Svartalf
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:38 pm

You probably could swing Gingerbread on the device- but it's going to be slowish. Most of the devices it's been put to service on has been A8 or A9 based devices- and I can tell you that there's stall-outs from time to time when GC cuts in on my overclocked Droid A855 model and it's got about 70-ish Mb of RAM left when there's nothing running on it.

Quite simply...I still question why people keep thinking Android's going to be a nifty thing on an R-Pi because there's an overhead with Dalvik that many haven't really considered. :D

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:39 pm

Quote from alexu on September 12, 2011, 17:43
Perl scripts *are* more useful than ubuntu with constant kernel freezes bc of graphic card drivers (yes it happened to me and it's very distracting)

Heh... It remains to be seen if you'll get the same sorts of driver hangs here- and you'll not need to worry about Ubuntu on it anyhow. ;)

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:12 am

Quote from Svartalf on September 12, 2011, 20:38
You probably could swing Gingerbread on the device- but it's going to be slowish. Most of the devices it's been put to service on has been A8 or A9 based devices- and I can tell you that there's stall-outs from time to time when GC cuts in on my overclocked Droid A855 model and it's got about 70-ish Mb of RAM left when there's nothing running on it.

Quite simply...I still question why people keep thinking Android's going to be a nifty thing on an R-Pi because there's an overhead with Dalvik that many haven't really considered. :D
in my case my boss is convinced Android is better than plain Linux. I can't seem to be able to get it through to him that Android is to Linux what WIN3.1 was to DOS - only Android plays the shell game MUCH better!

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:28 am

Ah, the dumb boss issue. Tell him Android is a Linux variant for touchscreen phones, and that since this is not a smartphone, you need another variant of Linux.

ubergeek63
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:40 pm

Quote from obarthelemy on September 16, 2011, 12:28
Ah, the dumb boss issue. Tell him Android is a Linux variant for touchscreen phones, and that since this is not a smartphone, you need another variant of Linux.
Actually he is trying to standardize high end stuff on Android so he does not have to have the SW guys do it more than once regardless of the hardware used for the user interface.

In some ways it makes sense and in others it does not...

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:49 pm

Quote from ubergeek63 on September 19, 2011, 16:40
Quote from obarthelemy on September 16, 2011, 12:28
Ah, the dumb boss issue. Tell him Android is a Linux variant for touchscreen phones, and that since this is not a smartphone, you need another variant of Linux.
Actually he is trying to standardize high end stuff on Android so he does not have to have the SW guys do it more than once regardless of the hardware used for the user interface.

In some ways it makes sense and in others it does not...

A sensible idea, but one which could easily have been done with plain old Linux and the right graphics library. In fact, using Android could be a disadvantage if it's API's don't expose what you need. The camera API on Android is a case in point- it's a bit pants, missing quite a few features.
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:53 pm

Quote from jamesh on September 19, 2011, 16:49
A sensible idea, but one which could easily have been done with plain old Linux and the right graphics library. In fact, using Android could be a disadvantage if it's API's don't expose what you need. The camera API on Android is a case in point- it's a bit pants, missing quite a few features.

Very true but then the customers could not use their phones... really is a case of catering to the customers' whims, even if they are stupid ones.

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:20 pm

Is there any documentation available to us for the Broadcom SoC?

I have followed the wiki's link to the Broadcom BCM2835 media processor, and found no documentation there.

I've skimmed this thread and not spotted anything here either. I apologise if I have missed it. Any pointers would be gratefully accepted.

I'd like to understand the capability of the General Purpose Input/Output (GPIO), I2C, I2S, SPI.

For example:
- what is the SoC's I2S specification?
- what is the SoC's I2C specification?
- the wiki says "We support one slave interface for I2C...", does that mean it is hard-wired and hence their is always one I2C configured as a slave, or does it mean a maximum of one I2C can be used as a slave, but it is configurable, or something else?
- what is the SoC's SPI specification?
- the wiki says "one slave interface for ... SPI", does this mean one 'slave select' is part of that SPI interface, or is one of the 16 GPIO's a 'slave select', or is that handled in software, or something else?
- what is the SoC's GPIO specification? Are all the GPIO's in a single port, and hence could be read/written simultaneously?

electrodacus
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:43 pm

How easy will it be to underclock the BCM2835 ? preferably a hardware underclock.
Also documentation for the BCM2835 will be necessary at least when you start to sell the product.

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:11 pm

Quote from electrodacus on September 29, 2011, 18:43
How easy will it be to underclock the BCM2835 ? preferably a hardware underclock.
Also documentation for the BCM2835 will be necessary at least when you start to sell the product.

I presume you mean the Arm? The GPU itself automatically clock changes to match demand.

Not sure about the Arm in fact, 'probably' would be my uneducated guess!
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:12 pm

Quote from gbulmer on September 29, 2011, 18:20
Is there any documentation available to us for the Broadcom SoC?

I have followed the wiki's link to the Broadcom BCM2835 media processor, and found no documentation there.

I've skimmed this thread and not spotted anything here either. I apologise if I have missed it. Any pointers would be gratefully accepted.

I'd like to understand the capability of the General Purpose Input/Output (GPIO), I2C, I2S, SPI.

For example:
- what is the SoC's I2S specification?
- what is the SoC's I2C specification?
- the wiki says "We support one slave interface for I2C...", does that mean it is hard-wired and hence their is always one I2C configured as a slave, or does it mean a maximum of one I2C can be used as a slave, but it is configurable, or something else?
- what is the SoC's SPI specification?
- the wiki says "one slave interface for ... SPI", does this mean one 'slave select' is part of that SPI interface, or is one of the 16 GPIO's a 'slave select', or is that handled in software, or something else?
- what is the SoC's GPIO specification? Are all the GPIO's in a single port, and hence could be read/written simultaneously?


The documentation for most of that stuff is currently being written. There are some issues to do with GPIO sharing etc that are still to be decided.
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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:33 am


I presume you mean the Arm? The GPU itself automatically clock changes to match demand.

Not sure about the Arm in fact, 'probably' would be my uneducated guess!


Thanks,

Hope I can force the GPU to stay at lowest clock I have no need for display in my application.
Hope the arm can be clocked down to about 400Mhz.
Any idea when the spec for the SOC will be available?
Also, are there any ADC on the GPIO port?

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Re: Broadcom BCM2835 SoC

Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:34 am

Quote from electrodacus on October 7, 2011, 09:33

I presume you mean the Arm? The GPU itself automatically clock changes to match demand.

Not sure about the Arm in fact, 'probably' would be my uneducated guess!


Thanks,

Hope I can force the GPU to stay at lowest clock I have no need for display in my application.
Hope the arm can be clocked down to about 400Mhz.
Any idea when the spec for the SOC will be available?
Also, are there any ADC on the GPIO port?


I'm not sure about the Arm, but the GPU will always be at the lowest speed required to do what it is currently doing. So, if its not doing anything, its power consumption is very low indeed.

Depends what you mean by SoC spec. The Arm is a standard part, so Arm docs are good there, the GPU is proprietary, so a lot of details on that won't be made available. However, enough WILL be made availalbe to ensure the usefulness of the device. For example, libraries to use the acceleration.

No ADC.
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