ceti331
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:28 pm



video where someone describes the forces turning computers into locked down appliances.

the problem i see is that consumers are pushing it/sleepwalking into it - by willingly choosing an iPad instead of a laptop, forgoing desktops altogether , choosing cloud services etc.

but this guy argues that sopa was just the beginning and that many industries will have a VI in shutting down the concept of general purpose computers in the broader population.

The problem comes I think from people promoting specific proprietary tools (like Facebook) to the significance of language, e.g. Imagine if someone copyrighted "English" or "Mathematics".

I posted elsewhere about "semantic wikis"; imagine if people generally were more versed in the ability to write machine translatable text via one of these mechanisms. imagine a world where people only ever need to learn 2 languages, their mother tongue and a machine-translatable version. what a computer is becoming is a global super-intelligence (the internet could itself already be more significant than AI the way it's presented in sci-fi ) and the access to it and ability to communicate with it should be through such means, if anyone monopolizes it, that would be terrible

andyl
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:20 pm

ceti331 said:


video where someone describes the forces turning computers into locked down appliances.


That someone is Cory Doctorow.

Lynbarn
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:33 pm

I'm not taking any form of political stance here, but the speaker, Cory Doctorow, speaks well, and has a very interesting outlook on where he sees things are going with computers, the internet and regulation. I've never heard of him before, but I can definitely see his point.

I'm not sure how the 'Pi might impact on the issues raised, but perhaps some of those enthused by it over the next few years may become the law-makers of the future, and as a result may be be better able to learn the lessons of the past (and present) in over (or at least inappropriate) regulation.

Prometheus
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:50 pm

Lynbarn said:


I'm not taking any form of political stance here, but the speaker, Cory Doctorow, speaks well, and has a very interesting outlook on where he sees things are going with computers, the internet and regulation. I've never heard of him before, but I can definitely see his point.


Same here, though the lack of research about certain things he incorrectly stated (that part just sounded like he was parroting the FSF's incorrect line on the whole thing) does undermine said point somewhat, thus making me wonder what else he got wrong…

That part aside, it was certainly a very interesting talk, and one well worth anyone's time.


I'm not sure how the 'Pi might impact on the issues raised, but perhaps some of those enthused by it over the next few years may become the law-makers of the future, and as a result may be be better able to learn the lessons of the past (and present) in over (or at least inappropriate) regulation.


With any luck.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:12 pm

I just want to point out that it is hard to avoid giving the people what they want.

Bread and circuses - and reality TV - doncha know?

3+5
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

Lynbarn
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:22 pm

Joe Schmoe said:


I just want to point out that it is hard to avoid giving the people what they want.

Bread and circuses - and reality TV - doncha know?

3+5



Reality TV - I'd certainly vote for THAT to be outlawed!

Lynbarn
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:29 pm

Prometheus said:


Same here, though the lack of research about certain things he incorrectly stated(that part just sounded like he was parroting the FSF's incorrect line on the whole thing) does undermine said point somewhat, thus making me wonder what else he got wrong…


I seem to recall a case from a year or two ago, where Amazon had inadvertantly sold an eBook for the Kindle that they didn't have the rights to. Without any warning or advice to customers who had paid them good money for it, Amazon "updated" their Kindles, and simply removed it. The work concerned, ironically, was George Orwell's 1984…

EDIT: HERE's a link - It was Animal Farm as well

axiomprime
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:35 pm

There's nothing wrong with closed hardware. Most consumers want an OS that does a handful of things really well where you can't accidentally delete a vital file.

In my job I deal with a lot of computer users that aren't what you might call computer literate. The whole industry has been selling these people overblown machines with upgrade  slots that they'll never even know about, with overblown OSs that are only ever used as a browser and photo manager. The likes of the iPad is showing another way. It's not for me but it's just what some people need.

I've been trying to get my dad into computing for about 25 years. A 160 quid tablet got it done in a day.

Prometheus
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:44 pm

axiomprime said:


There's nothing wrong with closed hardware. Most consumers want an OS that does a handful of things really well where you can't accidentally delete a vital file.

In my job I deal with a lot of computer users that aren't what you might call computer literate. The whole industry has been selling these people overblown machines with upgrade  slots that they'll never even know about, with overblown OSs that are only ever used as a browser and photo manager. The likes of the iPad is showing another way. It's not for me but it's just what some people need.

I've been trying to get my dad into computing for about 25 years. A 160 quid tablet got it done in a day.



Agreed with this, too.

I think what some folks aren't getting, is that a lot of these products are tapping into "new" markets - people whose requirements haven't been catered to before. There may be some overlap with existing ones in some cases (for example, with people who bought a big, overpowered PC because they wanted to send e-mails, but who later found a tablet more suitable and went over to that instead), but they aren't likely to actually threaten those markets.

Lynbarn
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:51 pm

Prometheus said:


axiomprime said:


There's nothing wrong with closed hardware. Most consumers want an OS that does a handful of things really well where you can't accidentally delete a vital file.

In my job I deal with a lot of computer users that aren't what you might call computer literate. The whole industry has been selling these people overblown machines with upgrade  slots that they'll never even know about, with overblown OSs that are only ever used as a browser and photo manager. The likes of the iPad is showing another way. It's not for me but it's just what some people need.

I've been trying to get my dad into computing for about 25 years. A 160 quid tablet got it done in a day.



Agreed with this, too.

I think what some folks aren't getting, is that a lot of these products are tapping into "new" markets – people whose requirements haven't been catered to before. There may be some overlap with existing ones in some cases (for example, with people who bought a big, overpowered PC because they wanted to send e-mails, but who later found a tablet more suitable and went over to that instead), but they aren't likely to actually threaten those markets.


+1 from me!

Both open and closed systems have their place - horses for courses and all that.

Alchemy
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:14 pm

Sorry for the big statement. But I really don't like the way the world is going here.

Something seems very wrong if we are still using mega publishing corporations. The technology exists to avoid publishers like Sony and Apple. And the most effective system in music, film and software is direct from creative people to customers. The existence of closed systems seems to just be an embedding of the wrong direction.

o19
Posts: 38
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:45 pm

okay, here we go…



those of you, who think we need both, open stuff for techies and closed stuff for parents, will probably like it. the others as well. =)

edit: hope the video works now.

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jojopi
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:00 pm

Reminds me of:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/.....-read.html

Well worth a read.  But taking an ethical position around here is not advised.  You will branded a "tosseer", and made out to be idealistic to the point of idiocy.

Alchemy
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:31 pm

jojopi said:


But taking an ethical position around here is not advised.



I assume early adopter mindset will get replaced by nerd mindset eventually. They are very different. Once it becomes about doing things with RasPi and there is no cachet in simply having it.

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Lob0426
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:49 am

The things you have to remember is that the majority of people use a
device as it was manufactured. They don't hack it, or upgrade it, they
buy a new one that is an upgrade. They are consumers. And the consumer
economy is the most profitable for the worlds companies. They want you
to replace all of your electronics on a two year cycle (or shorter or
why would Apple make a new phone every year).

Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo do not want you to hack their box (not your box)
and make any use of it other than to buy their games or software. It is
the same with Cell phones. Most of our cell phones are at least as
powerful if not much more powerful than the RasPi will be. But you will
not in most cases be able to hack enough into the system to make them
function as well as the RasPi will with a wider variety of software.
Even the RasPi has some of these problems.

I personally hope that the RasPi and many other devices in its class flood the world
and open the eyes of its people to the direction that big business is
pushing "CONSUMER" electronics. I foresee a whole economy based on
special purpose gadgets, the businesses hoping you will carry two or
three or more on you (or in you) at all times. Example The wireless
personal hotspot, Your Cell phone, A kindle and so on. How many of these
gadgets do you need to fulfill your life tomorrow? I want a device I
can configure to what I want not several devices, or more, that have
been configured to give me what they think I need!

Long live the General Purpose Computer, Death to all Computing Appliances! Wait I do want to keep my iPhone though.
512MB version 2.0 as WordPress Server
Motorola Lapdock with Pi2B
Modded Rev 1.0 with pin headers at USB

http://rich1.dyndns.tv/
(RS)Allied ships old stock to reward its Customers for long wait!

adlambert

Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:02 am

I own both types of device, why not? They get used for what they are good at.

Alchemy
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Re: the trend R-Pi is hoping to fix

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:56 am

adlambert said:


I own both types of device, why not? They get used for what they are good at.


You don't own a closed platform. The device does what it wants to you. Its impossible for you to know what its doing. You may use it within the TOS which will allow the real owners total indemnity. Can you imagine a hearing aid with DRM?

LOL at me going all conspiratorial I'm not even political! Its just a matter of people knowing stuff so the law makers know we know.

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