hsoftdev17
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:58 am

Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:53 pm

I'm sure I'll end up getting yelled at for asking, but I am going to anyway just because I'm curious. Are there any plans for a slightly beefier new generation of Pi Zero? I just mean the possibility of Pi2 or Pi3 level stuff, nothing epic. Thanks to anyone that knows more about this than me.

drgeoff
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:09 pm

Anyone who knows won't say.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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B.Goode
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Location: UK

Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:11 pm

hsoftdev17 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:53 pm
I'm sure I'll end up getting yelled at for asking, but I am going to anyway just because I'm curious. Are there any plans for a slightly beefier new generation of Pi Zero? I just mean the possibility of Pi2 or Pi3 level stuff, nothing epic. Thanks to anyone that knows more about this than me.
Pi2 - https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 2-model-b/

Pi3 - https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... el-b-plus/



Also, for reference - viewtopic.php?f=67&t=240569&p=1468313#p1468313
Last edited by B.Goode on Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alphanumeric
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Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:14 pm

The A series IMHO, pretty well fits that bill. Not much room to add anything on the Zero. I have several 3A+'s on the go here used where a Zero doesn't have the processing power for what I want to do. And when I don't need all the extra jacks on the B series.
The Pi Foundation never announces future products by the way. You'll hear about it when everybody else does, when it hits the shelves.
And odds are this thread will be locked at some point. Usually right after the first I want or gimme this post.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:34 pm

There are several problems with being able to make an upgraded Pi0.

First...what are you going to use for an SoC? Keep in mind that to fit everything on one side of a board that small, you have to use "package on package" (PoP) RAM. You have to keep everything on one side of the board to hold down manufacturing cost. This constrains both the physical size of the SoC package, and the thermal envelope. Those constraints rule out any of the SoCs the RPT is using, other than the current BCM2835.

So...if an existing SoC can't be used, that would mean either finding another, existing SoC that is completely software compatible with the rest of the Pi line (and, therefore, it'd have to come from Broadcom), or contracting a new design. In the former case, I would take it as a given that if a suitable SoC were available, the folks at the RPT would know (if only because Broadcom would *tell* them about it). In the latter case, the cost would have to be amortized over the new Pi0 boards being sold, likely driving up the price, which would defeat the original design reason for the Pi0, to wit: How close to zero can you drive the retail price of a computer?

Now if one wants to speculate... The obvious thing would be a single (*possibly* dual) core Cortex-A53, VC4 or VC6 SoC made on a 28nm process node. Holding the core count down to reduce the power--and, hence, heat--requirements. Probably underclock the VC, as well, for the same reason. By using a smaller process node and keeping the system clock speeds to, or possibly below, the current 1GHz BCM2835, the thermals should be no worse. That would keep from overheating with the PoP RAM in place. (I suggest the Cortex-A53, which is what the BCM2836 and BCM2837 use, because that would permit a Pi0v2 to run a 64-bit OS. VC6 would permit RAM to exceed 1GB, which might--someday--be desirable.)

The problem remains, though: First catch your SoC.

My own prediction: This thread will be locked fairly soon.

alphanumeric
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Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:32 pm

Good or Bad, the Pi Zero form factor (board size) is very restrictive. Kudo's to the Pi Foundation for getting all that is currently there on it in the first place. And double Kudo's for squeezing WIFI in there for a Zero W. It is a fantastic bit of kit and IMHO a great value at the current price. I would and am happy to pay more for more. I'm not asking for a new model, I'm just saying the current selection makes things nice when you have a budget. You do have a lot to chose from, I like that a lot. The current Zero, A and B form factors work for me. :D

drgeoff
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:46 pm

alphanumeric wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:32 pm
Good or Bad, the Pi Zero form factor (board size) is very restrictive.
I initially thought that sentence was expressing criticism of the Zero form factor. Ie restrictive for the users. Took me a few readings of the whole post to realise the meaning was the hardship caused to its designers trying to fit so much on it. :)
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

alphanumeric
Posts: 2784
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:17 pm
Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:49 pm

drgeoff wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:46 pm
alphanumeric wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:32 pm
Good or Bad, the Pi Zero form factor (board size) is very restrictive.
I initially thought that sentence was expressing criticism of the Zero form factor. Ie restrictive for the users. Took me a few readings of the whole post to realise the meaning was the hardship caused to its designers trying to fit so much on it. :)
Yes, that is what I meat to convey. Bad for them good for us. :D

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:13 pm

Indeed, it's not easy stuffing everything on these boards.

For example, the prototype Pi4 was actually larger (couple of mm) until someone figured out how to get it down to the size of the Pi3.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
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jamesh
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Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Pi Zero 2?

Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:15 pm

hsoftdev17 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:53 pm
I'm sure I'll end up getting yelled at for asking, but I am going to anyway just because I'm curious. Are there any plans for a slightly beefier new generation of Pi Zero? I just mean the possibility of Pi2 or Pi3 level stuff, nothing epic. Thanks to anyone that knows more about this than me.
We never announce products or product features in advance. So no information is available.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

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