StephensCM
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Collections

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:28 pm

At this point in time I am making slow progress in tampering with my raspberry pi along with my arduino uno. I'm trying to build a database on a 2 tb hard drive, maybe larger, with as many common driver downloads, repositories, and libraries as I can. Any chance anyone can point me in the right direction for research. Ex: Something happens to the internet/world and I may need to use my arduino and pi as a homemade security system or automated garden, I would download the libraries, repositories, drivers for anything I may need to make those function.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Collections

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:36 pm

If the internet fails catastrophically--let alone there is a general collapse of civilization--you'll be stuck with whatever you have already installed. There will be no new releases, no bug fixes, nobody giving general security advice. If civilization goes down, you won't have power to run your Pi and Arduino...at least not for very long, unless you're an electrical engineer trained in power systems and enough of a mechanical engineer and machinist (and have *all* the relevant tools) to fix or repair your own power systems. I suggest you go watch James Burke's _Connections_ series, especially the first episode, to understand the technological trap you're in and understand that your approach isn't the way out.

Heater
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Re: Collections

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:44 pm

That is an interesting idea.

I suspect it is unworkable though.

Imagine, civilization has collapsed, the internet is gone, you are safe in your bunker or in some remote location.

You need to get something working with a contrivance constructed from your stash of Arduinos and Pis and assorted components.

At that point you discover you have terabytes of code that you have never used before is of various vintages, that does not work well together and will take you a hundred years to sort out.

Generally people cannot get anything working with the code we have available live on the net without the help of asking questions on stackoverflow or a lot of googling around. You won't have any of that in your bunker.

I think your best bet would be to make sure you have backups of everything you actually have working now. Be sure to have a ton of drives to distribute it over and make use of in the decades ahead as they fail.

Speaking of which. I just read that github was burying an archive of it's entire content in a deep underground bunker, in Norway I believe. https://archiveprogram.github.com/

It's nice to know the junk I have in my github repos will be safe for then next hundred years or so :)
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

StephensCM
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:18 pm

Re: Collections

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:56 pm

thats why I'm trying working projects now, simple laser to photo resistor trip wire. and no I am not an electrical engineer but using certain command line functions to tactually acquire videos on using drills as generators for small battery packs, water generators to charge batteries as well as solar as well as URL to PDF I am able to download pages upon pages of how-to's to PDF format on a hard drive as well. With the way the world is going I'm just looking for simple tech to use for security. The hardware will come over time with working but the plan is all prep. no there will not be updates, security advice but if I'm able to have at time of collapse a working database of uses it's all prep. Ex. using pi camera, open cv for environment change (security camera), using server client (pi as a router) signals an alarm/Led warning/etc. Installing libraries from a drive has already been researched so that's not the problem. I've got server client to work for command line communication for short range, I am currently working on send receive through FM transceiver from pi to pi (walkie talkie style). Yes it's not going to be easy in a complete breakdown but with the resources, it wont be impossible to survive.

StephensCM
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:18 pm

Re: Collections

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:05 am

as well if the world "ends" with the information im trying to gather, I'll have all the time in the world.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 13603
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Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Collections

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:20 am

StephensCM wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:56 pm
thats why I'm trying working projects now, simple laser to photo resistor trip wire. and no I am not an electrical engineer but using certain command line functions to tactually acquire videos on using drills as generators for small battery packs, water generators to charge batteries as well as solar as well as URL to PDF I am able to download pages upon pages of how-to's to PDF format on a hard drive as well. With the way the world is going I'm just looking for simple tech to use for security. The hardware will come over time with working but the plan is all prep. no there will not be updates, security advice but if I'm able to have at time of collapse a working database of uses it's all prep. Ex. using pi camera, open cv for environment change (security camera), using server client (pi as a router) signals an alarm/Led warning/etc. Installing libraries from a drive has already been researched so that's not the problem. I've got server client to work for command line communication for short range, I am currently working on send receive through FM transceiver from pi to pi (walkie talkie style). Yes it's not going to be easy in a complete breakdown but with the resources, it wont be impossible to survive.
I still think you're going about it all wrong, but so long as you're having fun, go for it.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Collections

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:13 am

StephensCM wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:05 am
as well if the world "ends" with the information im trying to gather, I'll have all the time in the world.

How are you going to power your devices ?
Thinking outside the box is better than burying your head in the sand...

Heater
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Collections

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:39 am

Luckily it seems you have a couple of decades in which to prepare before the collapse of civilization:

"Theoretical Physicists Say 90% Chance of Societal Collapse Within Several Decades": https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akzn ... al-decades.

Strangely enough as a young teenager in 1972, learning about and drawing graphs of exponentials in maths class, I did a quick calculation from human population growth numbers I found to determine when humans would run out of resources. Which seemed inevitable to me even then. I estimated the end of civilization would be a few decades after the end of my life.

Seems to be right on schedule then.

I sometimes wonder how young teenagers realizing the maths and physics of all this for the first time, like I did back then, feel about the situation.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
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Location: UK

Re: Collections

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:39 am

StephensCM wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:28 pm
Ex: Something happens to the internet/world and I may need to use my arduino and pi as a homemade security system or automated garden, I would download the libraries, repositories, drivers for anything I may need to make those function.
I can understand the sentiment. Even if the world isn't ending, the internet hasn't collapsed, one can still find oneself out on a limb.

I was in that situation with MobileVB, a software suite which allowed for Palm Pilot and Symbian development under VB6. Worked brilliantly. Then Oracle acquired the IP, shut the thing down, and it was as if it had never existed.

Same thing happened with Ciseco RF products. There are probably many more examples.

The best hope of protecting yourself against having put your money on some particular now dead horse is to grab everything one can before it's gone.

I tend to keep repositories of old software and documentation for stuff I have used and may wish to use again.

The basic idea is not as insane as it may first sound. Even stuff you don't think could vanish can disappear completely overnight. And, if you are relying on it, don't have a copy of it, you can be pretty much screwed.

HvdW
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Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:41 pm

Re: Collections

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:49 am

On doomsday you'll be happy that the glazing is in the windows, that you'll be able to buy food.
There was a nice dress rehearsal with existing power supply when Covid-19 landed.
Just imagine power supply fails as well.
I'd go out chopping wood instead of resurrecting my private home automation system.
Who knows knows
Who doesn't doesn't

StephensCM
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Re: Collections

Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:33 pm

If i am crazy, which is arguable not only from the "world ending anytime in my lifetime", to the "I want to use my pi in an apocolypse", why is github doing just that, saving open source code in a vault designed for the end of the world AND have the ability to rebuild what we have created out of scrap?

Source:

https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/ope ... apocalypse

trejan
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Re: Collections

Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:51 pm

StephensCM wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:33 pm
If i am crazy, which is arguable not only from the "world ending anytime in my lifetime", to the "I want to use my pi in an apocolypse", why is github doing just that, saving open source code in a vault designed for the end of the world AND have the ability to rebuild what we have created out of scrap?
It has nothing to do with that. The Github Arctic Code Vault created an open source code time capsule for future generations and has nothing to do with an apocalypse.

https://github.blog/2020-07-16-github-a ... he-arctic/

"Our mission is to preserve open source software for future generations by storing your code in an archive built to last a thousand years."

https://archiveprogram.github.com

"A worrying amount of the world's knowledge is currently stored on ephemeral media: hard drives, SSDs, CDs good for a few decades, backup tapes whose notional 30-year lifespans assume strictly controlled heat and humidity. Because (some) hardware can be much longer-lived, there exists a range of possible futures in which working modern computers exist, but their software has largely been lost to bit rot. The GitHub Archive Program will include much longer-term media to address the risk of data loss over time."

LTolledo
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Re: Collections

Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:29 pm

i doubt anybody will survive with Arduinos and RPis only.... :mrgreen:

so its back to basics of survival
1. water
2. food
3. shelter

a collection of survival skills (based on radius 500 kilometers of your current location) is what anybody should be trying to acquire... ;)
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

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clicky
Posts: 501
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Re: Collections

Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:15 pm

Brilliant: I'll add 'collect internet to 2TB or bigger disk' to my family 'zombie apocalypse' dinning table discussions! :D

BTW - all of it is not completely unreasonable line of thinking. If anyone here knows what 'Nexus' is in Java/Maven world - it happened, were made, because of something similar: unstable internet connection. Building maven projects with internet connection going up and down at random point wasn't the best way forward - so, adding small proxy in the loop made it much more stable.

I can see similar thing here - if one is to proxy internet in wider way and collect all important stuff (mostly repos and such) - then it has some value. And Raspberry Pi is almost given as 'proxy in the box' computer (if you don't have gigabit ethernet as connection)...

lurk101
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Re: Collections

Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:44 pm

Exponential growth is a necessary component of capitalism. How do you measure your investment returns? Percentage annual gain. That's a measure of unsustainable exponential growth!

Till the West comes to to grips with the failure of raw capitalism, catastrophe seems inevitable. Systemic stress fractures are becoming impossible to ignore.

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TommyG007
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Location: South Wales, UK

Re: Collections

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:52 pm

Also keep in mind such things as data rot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation and disc rot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot
In storage

Data degradation results from the gradual decay of storage media over the course of years or longer. Causes vary by medium:

Solid-state media, such as EPROMs, flash memory and other solid-state drives, store data using electrical charges, which can slowly leak away due to imperfect insulation. The chip itself is not affected by this, so reprogramming it once per decade or so prevents decay. An undamaged copy of the master data is required for the reprogramming, which would not be possible if the data no longer existed on another device.

Magnetic media, such as hard disk drives, floppy disks and magnetic tapes, may experience data decay as bits lose their magnetic orientation. Periodic refreshing by rewriting the data can alleviate this problem. In warm/humid conditions these media, especially those poorly protected against ambient air, are prone to the physical decomposition of the storage medium.[2]

Optical media, such as CD-R, DVD-R and BD-R, may experience data decay from the breakdown of the storage medium. This can be mitigated by storing discs in a dark, cool, low humidity location. "Archival quality" discs are available with an extended lifetime, but are still not truly permanent. However, data integrity scanning that measures the rates of various types of errors is able to predict data decay on optical media well ahead of uncorrectable errors (data loss) occuring.[3]

Paper media, such as punched cards and punched tape, may literally rot. Mylar punched tape is another approach that does not rely on electromagnetic stability.

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