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clicky
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:52 pm

My bad:
Linus created Linux
BTW - I don't have anything against Ubuntu - I do believe that having variety in life (and linux distributions) is good thing. I was just against some kind of (bad) generalisations: relatively recently (let's say 2 years ago?) I've got impression that certain parts of the world recognise only two competing mobile phone 'standards': Apple (and openly IOS) and Samsung :( No mention of Android nor any other brand that delivers Android phones...

In the same way Linux is not only Ubuntu (nothing wrong with it per se) or Mint.

- - - rant over - - -
ejolson wrote: Going back to the topic of the original post, the desktop on the Pi works exactly how I expected. Making a judgement whether that experience is somehow bad or good depends on the person. It is also possible some people are setting up the video driver in a suboptimal way.
Spot on. So far my experience goes like this:
- lately (last 6+ years) I've lost touch with Linux desktop (not a type of a computer but graphics environment) to OSX and RPi as a desktop Linux machine brought it back to me - and I really enjoy it
- I've organised it in such way that now I am more than able to do my professional work and hobby programming on it (Java/Scala/Python/Rust/JavaScript) without much issues + many other computer related operations like image editing, sound editing, 3D modelling, web browsing, email reading, slack/teams/discord and such...
- in all fairness - in order to enjoy it - I have to be quite patient at times as modern software is, at moments, more demanding than what Pi4 can provide

Overall - as with a few of my previous posts - Pi4 desktop experience for me is all but bad! :D (but that's boring and not as provoking as this topic name or some bold statements on page 2 ;) )

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PeterO
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:03 pm

I've been running Mate on Mint for a few years now. It has a simple, straight forwards desktop with no "unnecessary visual frippery".
I also have Ubuntnu installed on a PC for testing, but I find the desktop (Cinamon I think) far to fiddly to use of any real work.

PeterO
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Heater
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:14 pm

My desktop experience with the Pi is very good.

How do I know? I asked my desk. It said thing like:

"I'm relived not to have to carry the weight of those big ugly IBM PC's you had back in the day"

"It's much nicer now that my ass is not cooked by those 'under the desk' boxes that started to arrive with that Pentium thing"

"I'm happy I have space now for your pizzas and things, instead of wasting space with those silly laptops that were all the rage a while ago."

"I hardly notice the Pi is there"

So there we have it. 99% of desktops are very happy with their Pi experience. Tell a desktop near you.

:)
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:32 pm

3 RPi desktops with monitors (2 x RPi4, one with 21", other with 14", and 1 x RPi3B+ with 10") for 75% volume (length x width x height) used by a "normal" x86 desktop with 21" monitor.

on top of that ( 3 RPi vs 1 x86 ):

1. power consumption ....
2. cost for system build......
3. software cost....

....things are really not looking good for the other competitor.....
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hippy
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:07 am

jahboater wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:23 pm
Heater wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:46 pm
Ubuntu is so new on the block I still cannot fathom why anyone would rely on that fly-by-night company that ripped it off from Debian.
It was immediately very popular. Things "just worked" without complicated configuration, and converts from Windows liked it.
That was my experience. Ubuntu was the first Linux distro I used which managed to find drivers for all my system hardware, sound and video worked as expected.

Ubuntu was a step up in installation experience and probably the first Linux distro which encouraged Windows users to at least try Linux That was of course helped by a massive push of free CD's, and having a Live CD capability.

That "fly-by-night company", Canonical, plus Shuttleworth, probably did more to advance Linux in the public arena than anyone had before.

stubright
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:30 am

[off-topic]
hippy wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:07 am
That "fly-by-night company", Canonical, plus Shuttleworth, probably did more to advance Linux in the public arena than anyone had before.
Until he shot himself in the foot when he added Amazon adware into the system a few years ago (an idea Windows would later steal and have a field day with in Windows 10 or was that vice versa?). That's when I stopped using Ubuntu. Now I use Debian Testing.
[/off-topic]

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jbeale
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:15 am

For what it's worth, I regularly use two desktop computers: one Pi 4 (4GB) running Pi OS, and one Intel J3455 (1.5GHz) fanless MiniPC "Compulab Fitlet2" with 8 GB, running Linux Mint. Both use a 1920x1080 monitor. For most things, both computers seem perfectly responsive and both are plenty good enough for most of my tasks. Sometimes (rarely) the Pi4 does feel slightly more sluggish. However, I did get suddenly sluggish behavior a LOT more frequently before I ditched the SD card and ran entirely off a USB3 SSD.

Occasionally, I find software that I expect to work, but doesn't. This past week I discovered that GNU Octave will not display graphs on a Pi4, possibly something is broken about OpenGL/GLU support, since Buster[1]. However, that circumstance is the exception to the rule.

[1] https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?56570

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clicky
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:03 am

hippy wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:07 am
Ubuntu was a step up in installation experience and probably the first Linux distro which encouraged Windows users to at least try Linux That was of course helped by a massive push of free CD's, and having a Live CD capability..
This is one of the statements I was trying not to react to (and apparently failing now). SuSE (and then OpenSuSE) was far more user friendly (installation and overall user experience), far 'fuller' and better rounded desktop experience than Ubuntu but not with such marketing nor coming from Silicone Valley and hence not on many people's radars. And way before Ubuntu was conceived. Also, SuSE has contributed many good things to Linux community in general. Again - before Ubuntu came into existence. Oh, and it did look like viable replacement for 'Windows' - much more than Ubuntu around 2005-2010!

Again - this is not 'bash Ubuntu' post - it is good and did a lot for Linux community :)

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PeterO
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:23 am

I ran SuSE for several years. As you say it was well polished any easy to install.

I was happy to support a European company by buying SuSE, then they shot themselves in the foot ....

"On 3 November 2006 (renewed 25 July 2011), Novell signed an agreement with Microsoft covering improvement of SUSE's ability to interoperate with Microsoft Windows, cross-promotion/marketing of both products and patent cross-licensing. The agreement is considered controversial by some in the Free Software community." (From Wikipedia)

PeterO
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DougieLawson
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:52 am

PeterO wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:23 am
I ran SuSE for several years. As you say it was well polished any easy to install.

I was happy to support a European company by buying SuSE, then they shot themselves in the foot ....
Ditto.

I even managed to snag a SuSE chameleon.
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hippy
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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am

No plush chamelians but I've got an Intel Inside Bunnyman / 'astronaut' and a large plastic Tux somewhere.

On which, I am wondering how "learning to code" on an X86 PC or laptop running "Debian Buster with Raspberry Pi Desktop: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS for PC and Mac - based on Debian Buster" compares to learning to code on an actual Pi computer ?

Often there's no GPIO on a PC other than line printer, serial and game ports unless one buys an I/O card or adds a Zero, Ardunio or external 'buffer board' but a lot of "learning to code" doesn't need physical GPIO. Most early "learning to code" activities these days seem to involve moving virtual cats or robots around an on-screen arena.

Even in the heyday of Home Computers there were few building their own hardware. Most things developed by kids back then were games.

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Re: Is Pi4 desktop experience supposed to be this bad?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:02 pm

I think this thread has served its purpose.
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