jahboater
Posts: 5797
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: West Dorset

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 9:05 am

I see the 64 bit userland stuff comes directly from Debian, so that should reduce the work the RPT have to do?
Better than maintaining two repositories.
Pi4 8GB running PIOS64

User avatar
PeterO
Posts: 5894
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 9:16 am

Kendek wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:02 am
PeterO wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 8:44 am
Is it just me ? apt update and apt upgrade seem to run noticeably faster on 64 bits (and 8Gb) .
PeterO
Check the /etc/apt/sources.list files; http://deb.debian.org/debian (64-bit / arm64) vs http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian (32-bit / armhf)
I mean when they are actually installing packages or doing updates rather than downloading the packages.
PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

neilshep50
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:02 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 9:21 am

Just for giggles......................

I already have my Pi 4 ( 4GB ) with the BETA bootloader for USB-MSD so..................... Yesterday evening I found a 16GB USB flash drive, downloaded the 64 bit image and flashed it to the drive. Plugged it into my Pi and turned it on. :o It booted straight up and installed :!: 8-)

Time to play :D

jahboater
Posts: 5797
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: West Dorset

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 10:15 am

My Pi4 4GB v1.2 has a mild overclock (1800MHz) using over_voltage=3.

It appears that with Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) the over_voltage can be reduced to 2 and it remains stable.
Pi4 8GB running PIOS64

gsh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:43 am

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 10:26 am

There's been a small update that you'll have in the 64 bit version that changes some clock division above 1500MHz, this means a slightly more reliable operation over 1500 but also slightly reduced memory bandwidth (about 2-3%). Of course the memory bandwidth reduction will only really be visible in benchmarks, otherwise processor performance is rarely limited.

Specifically this change in firmware

firmware: power: Adjust ARM:AXI divider ratio if ARM freq > 1500 MHz

on 12th May
--
Gordon Hollingworth PhD
Raspberry Pi - Director of Software Engineering

Aliensnipemaster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 2:12 pm

Can I use Debian arm64 apps with this
Apps that weren't compatible with armhf but are with arm64
These apps ran fine in Ubuntu arm64 on raspberry pi 4
Does this mean I can switch back to raspbian from Ubuntu
The reason I used Ubuntu is more things are compatible since its arm64

User avatar
dickon
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 2:44 pm

Yes. If you look at the sources.list, you'll see they point to Debian's repositories now.

Aliensnipemaster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 2:52 pm

When is this Arm64 raspbian going to be released
Can I get an expected month for release

Aliensnipemaster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 2:53 pm

Will in the future be able to convert regular raspbian to this new one or a way I can backup everything from the regular raspbian to this new one

Mark_F
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:42 am
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
Contact: Website Facebook

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 2:56 pm

neilshep50 wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:21 am
Just for giggles......................

I already have my Pi 4 ( 4GB ) with the BETA bootloader for USB-MSD so..................... Yesterday evening I found a 16GB USB flash drive, downloaded the 64 bit image and flashed it to the drive. Plugged it into my Pi and turned it on. :o It booted straight up and installed :!: 8-)

Time to play :D
I had exactly the same experience. https://jandmf.com/index.php/2020/05/29 ... -raspbian/

Kudos to everyone at Raspberry. Beta USB boot, beta 64bit OS and 8GB Pi 4. Must've been a BIG couple of weeks at Raspberry HQ.
Mark F
http://jandmf.com
Vk3KW

Aliensnipemaster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:00 pm

Will I be able to use the OS with Pi3 and Pi4 after used in a Pi4 will I be able to boot it in a Pi3 without reinstalling
The os on the sad card
This worked with 32bit raspbian

gsh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:43 am

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:12 pm

Yes that should still work fine
--
Gordon Hollingworth PhD
Raspberry Pi - Director of Software Engineering

trejan
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:13 pm

Aliensnipemaster wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:00 pm
Will I be able to use the OS with Pi3 and Pi4 after used in a Pi4 will I be able to boot it in a Pi3 without reinstalling
Yes

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 6229
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:19 pm

Aliensnipemaster wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:53 pm
Will in the future be able to convert regular raspbian to this new one or a way I can backup everything from the regular raspbian to this new one
No, normal release upgrades are tricky enough. Switching to a whole different architecture is not trivial.

People are welcome to try and this may be a starting point - https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading, but it's not something we'd officially support.

Aliensnipemaster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:41 pm

Is there a way to install apps that support only armhf on arm64
Example VNC Server

User avatar
dickon
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:49 pm

Yes, with caveats. Look for 'multiarch' in these forums -- it sometimes works.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 6229
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:50 pm

In general, yes. In the specific case of VNC Server, not yet.

libraspberrypi0 was never set up to support multiarch and getting it working would require breaking things, which I'd like to avoid.

My current plan is to leave the armhf version of libraspberrypi0 as is and treat it as a legacy support package. Then I'll add a new one that supports multiarch to allow things like realvnc vnc server to work.

Aliensnipemaster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:53 pm

Can't find a forum on armhf on arm64 with multi arch
There is only a way to run arm64 apps on armhf this is not what I want to do

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26685
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:55 pm

Aliensnipemaster wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:52 pm
When is this Arm64 raspbian going to be released
Can I get an expected month for release
As with all our stuff, when it's ready, it will be released. It depends on how well the beta programme goes. So, no, there is no expected release date.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

User avatar
dickon
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 3:56 pm

Aliensnipemaster wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:53 pm
Can't find a forum on armhf on arm64 with multi arch
There is only a way to run arm64 apps on armhf this is not what I want to do
If you look in that thread, you'll see I did it the other way around as well.

MaccyC
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:37 am

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 4:22 pm

Is the pi-gen config available for customization?

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26685
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 4:29 pm

MaccyC wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:22 pm
Is the pi-gen config available for customization?
This?

https://github.com/RPi-Distro/pi-gen
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

pleasantone
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 4:18 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 4:29 pm

@gsh - I'd really like to encourage you to fold all changes back into Debian unstable directly so that this time you're not stuck duplicating the work of the Debian team, especially around security updates.

Just to be clear, what I'm suggesting is that the average user gets an apt sources.list that looks something like:

Code: Select all

# just the files that you need to add or change, not a full distribution
deb http://newos.raspberrypi.org/newos stable rip
deb http://newos.raspberrypi.org/newos-security stable rpi
deb http://newos.rapsberrypi.org/newos stable/updates rpi

# the standard Debian files
deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stable main
deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stable-updates main
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stable/updates main
Please please please, don't do "another raspbian" because it screws us on security updates et al to have you as a gatekeeper.

Aliensnipemaster
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 4:32 pm

To install VNC SErver go to this forum
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/ ... untu-18-04
I know it says Ubuntu but it worked in raspbian
It will make raspbian look like xfce4
It's still raspbian just with different desktop environment
Last edited by Aliensnipemaster on Fri May 29, 2020 4:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

MaccyC
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:37 am

Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 4:34 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:29 pm
MaccyC wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:22 pm
Is the pi-gen config available for customization?
This?

https://github.com/RPi-Distro/pi-gen
Yes, but with the config file and customizations that builds 64bit. It currently build a 32bin image.

Return to “General discussion”