Pokemonbulbasaur
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:32 pm

Is this EEPROM Safe if I use it on raspberry pi 4 can it easily get bricked
also when I ran sudo apt update I think it install eeprom on raspberry pi os and this was on a raspberry pi 3B+

User avatar
dickon
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:34 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:25 pm
Correct. My TARDIS is in the shop.
Where and when? :-)
As it is apparently board policy to disallow any criticism of anything, as it appears to criticise something is to criticise all the users of that something, I will no longer be commenting in threads which are not directly relevant to my uses of the Pi.

User avatar
dickon
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:36 pm

Pokemonbulbasaur wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:32 pm
Is this EEPROM Safe if I use it on raspberry pi 4 can it easily get bricked
also when I ran sudo apt update I think it install eeprom on raspberry pi os and this was on a raspberry pi 3B+
You cannot brick a Pi. Not even a Pi 4. Any uSD card inserted into the thing is checked first, and if there's a recovery image on it, that is loaded, flashed and the thing reboots, so if, in the unlikely instance that the thing isn't properly flashed, you can always recover.

There is no EEPROM on a 3B+.
As it is apparently board policy to disallow any criticism of anything, as it appears to criticise something is to criticise all the users of that something, I will no longer be commenting in threads which are not directly relevant to my uses of the Pi.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 14376
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:37 pm

dickon wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:34 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:25 pm
Correct. My TARDIS is in the shop.
Where and when? :-)
What do we want?
A time machine.
When do we want it?
Doesn't matter.

trejan
Posts: 3064
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:39 pm

Pokemonbulbasaur wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:32 pm
also when I ran sudo apt update I think it install eeprom on raspberry pi os and this was on a raspberry pi 3B+
Everything gets the rpi-eeprom packages installed and updated. They do nothing unless you're running it on a Pi 4.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 14376
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:40 pm

Last week I reported the problem where logging in with an ID other than 'pi', the top bar flashed on and off a few times and then disappeared, leaving the only recovery path of starting an ssh session from another system to reboot the errant one.

Today, I ran an update/upgrade cycle (still no 2020-05-28 EEPROM) and the above problem went away. Then I ran rpi-update to get the beta firmware and the problem recurred. So it's pretty much got to be something rpi-update downloads.

User avatar
dickon
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:48 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:37 pm
What do we want?
A time machine.
When do we want it?
Doesn't matter.
Dr. Streetmentioner had / would have / is having / will have words about that.


(Yes, yes, sorry JamesH, but sometimes a bit of light entertainment keeps things enjoyable.)
As it is apparently board policy to disallow any criticism of anything, as it appears to criticise something is to criticise all the users of that something, I will no longer be commenting in threads which are not directly relevant to my uses of the Pi.

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 6211
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:02 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:40 pm
Last week I reported the problem where logging in with an ID other than 'pi', the top bar flashed on and off a few times and then disappeared,
I have seen something similar, except in my case the task bar returns, and I have only encountered it when editing the task bar (like adding or removing items, or editing properties). So it's non-fatal for me, but still a little annoying.

I am also logging into my own user (not pi).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 6211
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:03 am

Pokemonbulbasaur wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:32 pm
Is this EEPROM Safe if I use it on raspberry pi 4 can it easily get bricked
If you have trouble you can create an EEPROM recovery SD card with the Raspberry Pi Imager and restore the default firmware. On the other hand, if you have to ask such questions, you don't have enough experience to mess around with beta software, and you should wait for an official, stable release.

Pokemonbulbasaur wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:32 pm
...also when I ran sudo apt update I think it install eeprom on raspberry pi os and this was on a raspberry pi 3B+
No models prior to the Pi4 have an on-board EEPROM, however the OS always installs the packages to the SD card for compatibility.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

thatchunkylad198966
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:21 am
Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:03 am

New kernel just got released...

User avatar
cormack
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:15 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:03 am
New kernel just got released...
And should this be a concern to those running the beta bootloader/firmware?

raspipat
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:17 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:43 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:03 am
New kernel just got released...
Which one? Where?
Can you cite a link, please?

timg236
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:57 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:11 pm
I was under the impression that new versions of the beta EEPROM data were supposed to be released through the apt process. The last version obtainable that way (using the "beta" setting) is 27 June. Are the 28 June (or later) versions going to be released that way as part of the beta test?
EEPROM images are pushed to Github which is the source for the rpi-eeprom APT image. Creating the APT image is a manual process and can be delayed if @XECdesign is busy on a new Raspberry Pi OS release!

The recovery zip files are now hosted as Github releases which are automatically downloaded by the Raspberry Pi Imager. For convenience, I've uploaded a usb-msd beta release because it allows the bootloader EEPROM config to be replaced without any manual editing. This has overtaken the rpi-eeprom APT image which should get released soon.

There's now a landing page for recovery images which might also be used for things like experimental VLI updates
https://github.com/raspberrypi/rpi-eepr ... eleases.md

hippy
Posts: 9137
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:46 am

dickon wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:36 pm
Pokemonbulbasaur wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:32 pm
Is this EEPROM Safe if I use it on raspberry pi 4 can it easily get bricked
You cannot brick a Pi. Not even a Pi 4.
One can in theory brick a Pi 4, but it takes quite a determined effort to do it, so the general case is "you cannot brick a Pi".

User avatar
dickon
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:53 am

The only way I can think of is to reflash the EEPROM enough times that it fails, but given that even modern chips have ~10k cycles in them, that seems like a lot of work to me.
As it is apparently board policy to disallow any criticism of anything, as it appears to criticise something is to criticise all the users of that something, I will no longer be commenting in threads which are not directly relevant to my uses of the Pi.

hippy
Posts: 9137
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:46 pm

There is no need to erase-write an entire chip; just rendering a critical page or block unusable can do it, which is a much quicker effort. 100K erase-writes at 30ms per cycle on a W25X40 would take just under an hour.

Popping up a "Please wait - You WILL brick your Pi if turned off" progress bar which slows to a crawl would have many people watching it or leaving it while it destroys their system. Do it as a background task and they'd never know.

knute
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:14 am
Location: Texas
Contact: Website

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:19 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:03 am
New kernel just got released...
And it overwrote the 5.4 kernel that I had installed by accident when I was trying to get USB boot working. Anybody know how to get 5.4 back?

Thanks!

User avatar
cormack
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:28 pm

knute wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:19 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:03 am
New kernel just got released...
And it overwrote the 5.4 kernel that I had installed by accident when I was trying to get USB boot working. Anybody know how to get 5.4 back?

Thanks!
sudo rpi-update

Rascas
Posts: 734
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:18 pm
Location: Porto, Portugal
Contact: Website

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:35 pm

Probably it was explained already, already to much comments to read it all, but if, on a brand new RPi 4, I install this "new" Raspberry Pi OS 32bit" and then clone the SD card image to an SSD in an USB 3.0 disk enclosure, will it work ? For "will it work" it is excluding other problems, more like, it will support it ?

timg236
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:50 pm

Rascas wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:35 pm
Probably it was explained already, already to much comments to read it all, but if, on a brand new RPi 4, I install this "new" Raspberry Pi OS 32bit" and then clone the SD card image to an SSD in an USB 3.0 disk enclosure, will it work ? For "will it work" it is excluding other problems, more like, it will support it ?
Not yet. The firmware updates required for USB MSD boot are still only available via rpi-update. You will also need to update the bootloader.

Rascas
Posts: 734
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:18 pm
Location: Porto, Portugal
Contact: Website

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:17 pm

timg236 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:50 pm
Rascas wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:35 pm
Probably it was explained already, already to much comments to read it all, but if, on a brand new RPi 4, I install this "new" Raspberry Pi OS 32bit" and then clone the SD card image to an SSD in an USB 3.0 disk enclosure, will it work ? For "will it work" it is excluding other problems, more like, it will support it ?
Not yet. The firmware updates required for USB MSD boot are still only available via rpi-update. You will also need to update the bootloader.
Thanks, that was what I needed to know.

knute
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:14 am
Location: Texas
Contact: Website

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:01 am

cormack wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:28 pm
knute wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:19 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:03 am
New kernel just got released...
And it overwrote the 5.4 kernel that I had installed by accident when I was trying to get USB boot working. Anybody know how to get 5.4 back?

Thanks!
sudo rpi-update
That doesn't work, there has to be another step somewhere?

trejan
Posts: 3064
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:04 am

knute wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:01 am
That doesn't work?

Code: Select all

echo | sudo tee /boot/.firmware_revision 
sudo rpi-update

bunklung
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:10 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:20 pm

Are there any outstanding bugs to be squashed? Are we looking at a "when it's done" stable release date or do we have a timetable when everything will go to a stable public release?

timg236
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: USB-MSD boot EEPROM update - 2020-05-28

Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:31 pm

Bugs are in Github.

USB-MSD functionality supports enough different drives and configurations to be considered stable with workarounds for unusual drives being addressed in later releases. However, it's a bit soon to push this out to all Pi users as a critical bootloader update.

The firmware is in rpi-update master and at some point it the OS images and APT will get that version but this is a fairly minor feature so it wouldn't merit an OS release by itself. Maybe when we switch to the 5.4 kernel that's a good enough reason.

Return to “General discussion”