Raspberry Pi Forums

Over in another thread HawaiianPi shared a photo

HawaiianPi wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 12:34 am

The USB-SATA adapter that's been well regarded by many here since the Pi3 USB booting days is this one.
Eluteng USB 3.0 to SATA-III adapter cable



It has an ASMedia controller chip (1153E?), and works with the Pi 4B without needing quirks. The newer model with blue SATA connector also supports TRIM out of the box (old black model needed a firmware update for TRIM). There are many that look identical, but others may have a different controller chip, so beware of lookalikes. The Eluteng has changed over time (black vs blue), but has consistently run the ASMedia controller, so while there is no guarantee it won't change, it's a pretty safe bet.
...
Another thing I like about the newer Eluteng "blue" model is that it has both a power and activity LED (red/blue). Since the Pi's ACT LED only shows SD card activity, it's a nice feature to have on a USB booted Pi.

Can anyone tell me if that is entirely home-made, or if I what the parts are called so I buy similar?

I didn't know it until I saw it, but that's exactly how I want to mount up my Pi3B+ media player/UPnP server. My Pi3B+ is currently in half of a Smarzra case - it busted out of the top when I added a HiFi Berry DAC+ Light on top, with the disk slopping about to the side.

I have very little knowledge about ssd drives.

Is this the same connector but from Amazon.co.uk?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELUTENG-Extern ... 773&sr=8-3

Thanks

Malcolm

my versions: I prefer the HDD to be horizontal at the bottom, .... to improve center of gravity...


before it was like this:

here is another one suggestion:

itsonlyme wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 11:53 am

Is this the same connector but from Amazon.co.uk?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELUTENG-Extern ... 773&sr=8-3

I bought that recently, and yes, it has the ASMedia chipset that people are saying is "recommended", and it has the blue connectors that indicate it's a recent version of the ELUTENG product. Getting one with this particular spec is only relevant if you're using a Pi 4 because then it opens up the opportunity for USB Attached SCSI protocol to be used to control the drive.

I think that it's pretty common for USB3 data transfers to generate 2.4GHz interference, and I certainly noticed that with this cable - my wireless keyboard receiver that I had plugged in to the USB2 ports lost a lot of range.

None of that is any problem for my current application which is with a Pi3B (USB2 only) - I want to find the parts join all the bits together firmly

LTolledo wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 12:08 pm

my versions:
...

Yup, I want horizontal, to avoid tipping, and maybe putting the disk at the bottom would protect the skinny top of my spinning disk, though that would leave my cables dangling from higher up my "case" than I'd like, so I think I'll keep it at the top and let it work as the lid.

So, what are the hexagonal struts called, and are the thread sizes important? I think I need 4mm of M3 thread to go into the disk?

busywait wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 12:26 pm

So, what are the hexagonal struts called, and are the thread sizes important? I think I need 4mm of M3 thread to go into the disk?

They are called standoffs and come in various flavours; female both ends, male one end, female the other, and male both ends. Also come in various thread pitches in both metric and imperial, and in different materials (metal and plastic).

To thread directly into the disk you likely want a male/female with the appropriate thread on the male end.

bjtheone wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 12:55 pm

They are called standoffs and come in various flavours; female both ends, male one end, female the other, and male both ends. Also come in various thread pitches in both metric and imperial, and in different materials (metal and plastic).

To thread directly into the disk you likely want a male/female with the appropriate thread on the male end.

Thx, and I guess the feet in the first picture (at the top) are thumbscrews?

And so finally, I'd want a convenient base plate, which I was worried about cutting myself, but these people will even cut it to size for me:
https://www.cutmyplastic.co.uk/acrylic- ... /H120-W90/

Thx all

Is this the same connector but from Amazon.co.uk?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELUTENG-Extern ... 773&sr=8-3
I bought that recently, and yes, it has the ASMedia chipset that people are saying is "recommended", and it has the blue connectors that indicate it's a recent version of the ELUTENG product. Getting one with this particular spec is only relevant if you're using a Pi 4 because then it opens up the opportunity for USB Attached SCSI protocol to be used to control the drive.

Thanks Busywait

busywait wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 1:31 pm

Thx, and I guess the feet in the first picture (at the top) are thumbscrews?

And so finally, I'd want a convenient base plate, which I was worried about cutting myself, but these people will even cut it to size for me:
https://www.cutmyplastic.co.uk/acrylic- ... /H120-W90/

I believe so. Often these standoff based cases, use low profile bolts on the top and bottom. Another popular addon is little rubber stickon "feet" on the bottom plate. Stops the case from sliding around, makes it non marking/scratching and allows for more airflow.

I suspect given that hard drives and ssds come in standard form factors, that you could find off the shelf plates. If not, polycarbonate (lexan) cuts and machines very nicely. Note that acrylic (that looks the same) does not, as it is much more brittle and cracks easily. Lexan cuts beautifully on a table saw, machines and drills well, and you can even tap thicker pieces. Only thing that is annoying is trying to glue it, as most glues do not work well with lexan.

Another option would be to 3D print the case parts that you want. Thingiverse has a bunch of case designs to accommodate a Pi and various HDD or SSD options.

bjtheone wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 3:54 pm

I suspect given that hard drives and ssds come in standard form factors, that you could find off the shelf plates. If not, polycarbonate (lexan) cuts and machines very nicely. Note that acrylic (that looks the same) does not, as it is much more brittle and cracks easily. Lexan cuts beautifully on a table saw, machines and drills well, and you can even tap thicker pieces. Only thing that is annoying is trying to glue it, as most glues do not work well with lexan.

My experience, though I'll grant that it was 50+ years ago, is that acrylic plastics machine quite nicely.

It should be pointed out that placing a USB3 HD on top (or even under) the Pi may lead to electrical interference that prevents WiFi from functioning. This is not likely a problem for a NAS because they are connected by wired Ethernet, but it is something to keep in mind.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=266353#p1618238

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 4:18 pm

My experience, though I'll grant that it was 50+ years ago, is that acrylic plastics machine quite nicely.

While I will concede "machines" is not a particularly precise term, there are two families of clear "plastic" sheeting commonly used. Lexan is the brand name of one of the more popular polycarbonate plastics. It is characterized by being quite flexible and basically shatterproof. You can cold form it. Acrylic (plexiglass) is much more brittle and is subject to stress cracking and shattering. There are some other types of plastic (like acrylate polymer) that are more flexible. I suspect that acrylic would machine on a lathe or mill using the proper tools quite well.

Acrylic cuts nicely with a laser cutter but has a nasty habit of stress cracking if you cut it with a table saw. It also tends to stress crack if you put bolt holes near an edge. It will shatter if subjected to high force impacts. OTOH, polycarbonate sheeting is amazing in terms of the amount of forces you can apply to it and have it spring back. It is often used in combination with laminated glass in making "bullet proof" glass.

This is all based on using it in building FRC robots that typically weight in around 150 pounds and tend to be subject to high speed impacts while playing the game. Both in terms of manufacturing, assembly, and how they performed in action.

ejolson wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 4:56 pm

It should be pointed out that placing a USB3 HD on top (or even under) the Pi may lead to electrical interference that prevents WiFi from functioning. This is not likely a problem for a NAS because they are connected by wired Ethernet, but it is something to keep in mind.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=266353#p1618238

I thought the concern with electrical noise stemmed from the cabling more than from the actual device. Do HDD radiate on the 2.4 GHz spectrum? I only have SSDs but have no issues with WiFi.

bjtheone wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 5:23 pm

ejolson wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 4:56 pm

It should be pointed out that placing a USB3 HD on top (or even under) the Pi may lead to electrical interference that prevents WiFi from functioning. This is not likely a problem for a NAS because they are connected by wired Ethernet, but it is something to keep in mind.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=266353#p1618238

I thought the concern with electrical noise stemmed from the cabling more than from the actual device. Do HDD radiate on the 2.4 GHz spectrum? I only have SSDs but have no issues with WiFi.

Could you be using 5 GHz WiFi?

ejolson wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 6:56 pm

bjtheone wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 5:23 pm

ejolson wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 4:56 pm

It should be pointed out that placing a USB3 HD on top (or even under) the Pi may lead to electrical interference that prevents WiFi from functioning. This is not likely a problem for a NAS because they are connected by wired Ethernet, but it is something to keep in mind.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=266353#p1618238

I thought the concern with electrical noise stemmed from the cabling more than from the actual device. Do HDD radiate on the 2.4 GHz spectrum? I only have SSDs but have no issues with WiFi.

Could you be using 5 GHz WiFi?

There is definitely a well-known tendency of devices connected to USB-3 to stop 2.4GHz stuff working, not just due to hard disks:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/usb-3-and ... -solution/

I experience it as a reduced range for my wireless keyboard (Logitech K400+ with USB receiver plugged into the Pi 4 USB-2 ports) when I used my Eluteng cable + SSHD connected to the Pi4 USB-3 ports. I also have a StarTech branded USB-SATA cable that is slightly longer and twice the price (and that reports the same chipset ID). That also generates interference, but it doesn't seem to be as bad. I can make the problem go away by putting my keyboard receiver on to a USB extension cable. (No such easy fix if I was trying to use the 2.4GHz WiFi I guess).

The disk in all of the constructions in this thread look further away from the mainboard than the disk in my laptop and little desktop machines I've used - those disks are all connected directly to SATA busses though, and have not caused me to notice any problems. I guess people using them would let us know what problems they experience

bjtheone wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 5:20 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 4:18 pm

My experience, though I'll grant that it was 50+ years ago, is that acrylic plastics machine quite nicely.

Acrylic cuts nicely with a laser cutter but has a nasty habit of stress cracking if you cut it with a table saw. It also tends to stress crack if you put bolt holes near an edge. It will shatter if subjected to high force impacts. OTOH, polycarbonate sheeting is amazing in terms of the amount of forces you can apply to it and have it spring back. It is often used in combination with laminated glass in making "bullet proof" glass.

This is all based on using it in building FRC robots that typically weight in around 150 pounds and tend to be subject to high speed impacts while playing the game. Both in terms of manufacturing, assembly, and how they performed in action.

Thanks for insights all - I only have access to hand-tools, and looking to limit my work to drilling through-holes, so the cheap pre-cut rectangles from cutmyplastic.co.uk look helpful. Also, the stick on rubber feet are clearly the sensible option for me - I've got some small ones left over from the cupboard doors after a recent kitchen refit

It looks like my easy options are acrylic or polycarbonate (although almost everything at cutmyplastic is out of stock at the moment, I think because they are making sneeze screens for use in shops and other workplaces).

Based on the advice here I was thinking to find a 4mm polycarbonate base, and I'll be drilling 4mm through holes for M3 bolts, with centres at 10mm away from each edge. Sound OK for a first effort, or should I be brave and go for glass effect acrylic because it looks nicer?

Remember that if you want to mount a Pi, the mounting holes are designed for M2.5 fittings.

busywait wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 10:15 pm

Thanks for insights all - I only have access to hand-tools, and looking to limit my work to drilling through-holes, so the cheap pre-cut rectangles from cutmyplastic.co.uk look helpful.

If you want cheap with hand tools, I mounted mine vertically on a block of wood using two bent pieces of coat hanger and some aquarium tubing. It looks like



With proper stain, varnish and furniture polish it might look better. I was too excited to start using the Pi to bother. The fan is powered from a separate 12V supply, but I've not been using it much as the vertical mounting seems to provide enough convection on it's own. More information is available at

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=240287&start=975#p1514565

Acrylic is indeed brittle.
Here's something I made a few years ago out of a pen / pencil cup.


As you can't see, the acrylic split when I tried to drill out a slot for the microSD card.
I managed to glue it back together with super glue, but now it's ugly (and the hdd never fit anyway)

The other cut outs were made using a dremil and didn't break, but did fracture.

To avoid cracking and breakouts when drilling acrylic, buy plastic cutting drill bits. Regular metal and wood bits have a point angle that causes the chipping, grabbing and cracking when drilling acrylic. I finally bought some a couple years ago and am still kicking myself for not buying some many decades ago.

Paul Hutch wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 5:04 pm

To avoid cracking and breakouts when drilling acrylic, buy plastic cutting drill bits. Regular metal and wood bits have a point angle that causes the chipping, grabbing and cracking when drilling acrylic. I finally bought some a couple years ago and am still kicking myself for not buying some many decades ago.

Thank you for that advice. I've got some poorly designed acrylic cases that need more holes in them. One I've already chipped up with a standard drill bit, but the others are presently undamaged.

Imperf3kt wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 12:09 am

Acrylic is indeed brittle.
Here's something I made a few years ago out of a pen / pencil cup.
...
As you can't see, the acrylic split when I tried to drill out a slot for the microSD card.
I managed to glue it back together with super glue, but now it's ugly (and the hdd never fit anyway)

The other cut outs were made using a dremil and didn't break, but did fracture.

Where do you keep your pencils now?

I've found a metal 2.5" to 3.5" HDD adaptor that I could use as a base plate (obviously it has holes drilled in the right places for the long standoffs for the HDD, and I'd just need to drill 4 more to fit the Pi. More chance of breaking my drill bits than the plate in this case. But I *really* want see-through :/

Paul Hutch wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 5:04 pm

To avoid cracking and breakouts when drilling acrylic, buy plastic cutting drill bits.

Heh, OK, on to the shopping list. I will pop some vent holes in the bottom too - is starting with small pilot holes a good idea, or just increasing the risk with each hole drilled?

ejolson wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 11:44 pm

If you want cheap with hand tools, I mounted mine vertically on a block of wood using two bent pieces of coat hanger and some aquarium tubing. It looks like...

Does give me an idea for making the whole thing invisible by attaching it *underneath* the shelf instead of taking up space on top of it. "Smart furniture"?

ejolson wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 11:44 pm

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=240287&start=975#p1514565

Oh. I don't think I should go there just yet

Since I got these Raspberry Pis out of the cupboard and plugged them in I've already lost too many hours Feeling like there aren't enough hours in the day already