My Problems vanished after imaging a card on my own

Yes
100%
3
No
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0
 
Total votes: 3
ghans
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A word on preloaded SD cards

Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:47 pm

I think something has to happen here.
People are sold outdated OS releases on SD Cards and are set back
by Problems like the Device not booting at all or Keyboard issues ,
most of it resolved ages ago.
What can we do to make the Pi experience better for newcomers,
and how do we handle sellers who refuse to update ?


ghans
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4thdwarflord
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:19 pm

ghans wrote: What can we do to make the Pi experience better for newcomers,
imaging the SD card yourself should be part of the experience, even if you use win32imager, shouldn't it?

ghans
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:05 pm

That is an interesting standpoint.
I am O.K. with that , but what do others think ?

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MattHawkinsUK
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:32 pm

I think it is a shame that some sellers are selling old images. It's easy to update but not much point buying a preloaded card if you have to immediately reimage it. For that reason I would recommend beginners avoid preloaded cards and just do it themselves.
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jojopi
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:01 pm

How old are the images we are talking about? There have been virtually no changes to the build scripts (here) since september, and the changes from august to september (here) were relatively minor. So an image updated with apt-get is largely equivalent to a new one.

Of course, if the user wanted a pre-installed image due to lack of fast internet, that could still be a problem. But the biggest risk is that they need to reinstall soon after for other reasons. I am not sure if that is better or worse than having to write their own image to start with.

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liz
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:52 pm

I had someone get in touch for some tech support a few weeks ago with a Pi that was displaying all kinds of problems. Turned out he'd been sold an image from APRIL by someone on Amazon. There's little we can do about it beyond awareness-raising; if you buy a card from one of the accredited distributors you'll be fine, but if you're buying a card from someone on Amazon, eBay or one of the no-name stores out there, caveat emptor.
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Kbho
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:17 pm

That's why people should only sell the newest versions, they're making money out of open-source software that is made free by the authors, and not giving anything to the authors, just keeping the money for themselves.

ghans
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:11 pm

I think a note on the front page or at least in the quick start guide
should take care of most of the problems.


ghans
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poing
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:32 pm

liz wrote:I had someone get in touch for some tech support a few weeks ago with a Pi that was displaying all kinds of problems. Turned out he'd been sold an image from APRIL by someone on Amazon. There's little we can do about it beyond awareness-raising; if you buy a card from one of the accredited distributors you'll be fine, but if you're buying a card from someone on Amazon, eBay or one of the no-name stores out there, caveat emptor.
This guy claims he recently got a preloaded SD card from RS with an image from April: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 92#p245323.

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Lob0426
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:59 pm

The distributors should be using the newer images. Entrepreneurs on the Internet; no way to control what they are sending out at all. They take a $5 or less SD card, put a free image on it, then sell it for $14.95. So they make at least a $9.95 profit. That for about 10 minutes of computer time, mostly unattended.

There are two things that would help here. The OSes reporting their version, the only easy thing they report is the exempt. And for people to post who is selling what and its age. The newer images work the best. Most of the people who are having problems as new RasPi owners are using pre-loaded cards. Updating is simple but only if the images works when it is plugged in.

If you have a PC or a MAC you would have less trouble building your own card than dealing with an out of date image. Most of the time you end up re-imaging the card anyway. Even the newest pre-loads are at least one version behind right now.

Another step I am surprised has not happened is self installing image. The image packaged with a utility and script to complete the image of a card with only a few clicks. Like picking the drive it needs to image.

It does not surprise me that RS/Allied were sent out a very out of date image. Their stock control has continually been shown too be poor, at least when it comes to the Raspbery Pi items. They need to overhaul their practices, at least those that are being used on the Raspberry Pi.
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maxlee
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:54 am

liz wrote:I had someone get in touch for some tech support a few weeks ago with a Pi that was displaying all kinds of problems. Turned out he'd been sold an image from APRIL by someone on Amazon. There's little we can do about it beyond awareness-raising; if you buy a card from one of the accredited distributors you'll be fine, but if you're buying a card from someone on Amazon, eBay or one of the no-name stores out there, caveat emptor.
Would be reassuring if that were the case, but I bought a preloaded card from RS, an accredited distributor, and the image was from 19/04/12. And, as I found out later, it isn't even compatible with the Model B 512MB board I ordered at the same time.

Something of a stumbling block, surely the Foundation has some leverage with the official distributors?

maxlee
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:13 am

4thdwarflord wrote:
ghans wrote: What can we do to make the Pi experience better for newcomers,
imaging the SD card yourself should be part of the experience, even if you use win32imager, shouldn't it?
I bought pre loaded because I lacked the confidence to start with what sounded like a complex operation frought with pitfalls... As proved the case. Comments like these are unhelpful, and don't really address the question posed by 4thdwarflord.

I am the guy sold an outdated and incompatible version by RS, noted and linked by poing earlier, and if you read that topic you will see that even win32imager has it's limitations, not publicised in the quick-start http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/u ... e-v1.1.pdf
in that it only works for 'removable' drives on the USB bus. It seems fairly common that it doesn't work with built in card readers, and built in readers are fairly common.

mikerr
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:47 am

I think one of the biggest barriers is the imaging of the SD card with w32imager and its problems.

Preloaded gets you up and running while you still have enthusiasm - and doesn't require a PC

Sidenote: it's technically possible to do a loopfile based distro where you can just copy the large files over to a fat32 formatted SD card,
no imaging required - though there's a performance hit on read/write.

[edit] it's been mentioned before, but no one's done it yet:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=8465
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

poing
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:05 pm

Wouldn't it be possible to create a "Foundation certified' quick start pack containing an SD card with a basic installer (and maybe a working-out-of-the-box WiFi dongle) that automagically installs the latest distro over the net? Just a thought.

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pluggy
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:08 pm

Burning a raw image file to any device on any operating system is dangerous. I use DD on Linux but I'm very aware how easy it is to get it wrong. There should be an option like most operating systems use to install it from other media via building it up from scratch.

Hmmm, maybe there is a market for selling a linux live disk that will suck the latest image from the internet, squirting it on an SD card completely by passing the computers own OS and the ability to write ARM code over it......
Don't judge Linux by the Pi.......
I must not tread on too many sacred cows......

poing
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:01 pm

What I mean is basically a 'Live SD card' that loads the installer in memory and then writes the latest distro to the card (aka itself). After that you'd hold a key or whatever at boot to load the installer again when you want to re-install a fresh Raspian. Don't know if that's possible though, but it would negate the need for another computer.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:13 pm

I think that, eventually, they will get it to the point where the retail (that is, non-educational) released SD card will be a minimalist system that is simply capable of downloading the real OS from the net and installing it locally. But, clearly, we are not there yet (and there's no shame in that).

There is a thread on this subject/idea elsewhere in the forum - the idea of making the card minimalist like this. There are some technical hurdles to overcome, but I think it is ultimately do-able.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

mikerr
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Re: A word on preloaded SD cards

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:58 pm

You can now use Berryboot to use a standard fat32 SD card and get the Pi to download/format/install an OS on the fly
- no image program needed, just copy files over to the card, and boot the pi.

http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php/berryboot

(assuming you have connected your Pi to your router via an ethernet cable)
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

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