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`Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:52 pm
by snuggles0010
I am writing this post because I cannot join velocix. This is because I am 11, isn't the pi for children? This means I cannot download anything.
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Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:01 pm
by snuggles0010
oops I have joined.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:23 pm
by shusain93
Thing is, Most kids will either lie about their age or not use it at all.
Truth to be told; Kids will join even if you tell them not to.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:55 pm
by malakai
Part is due to the US Children's Online Privacy Protection Act it gets to be messy and has some controversy. I do not know about EU and the regulations there. Since many sites put these restrictions to protect themselves I think it is kind of understood that if you say you are older than 13 and you are not they are still protected as you are waiving your rights to be protected by the act. It's one of those no one wins sort of thing.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:58 pm
by Max
malakai wrote:Part is due to the US Children's Online Privacy Protection Act it gets to be messy and has some controversy
Simple solution would be to stop requiring sign-ups for the free downloads.
No need to comply with privacy regulations like that, if you are not collecting any private information...

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:13 pm
by mikerr
Reminds me of facebook "over 13s only" and ebay/paypal - over 18s

Both are full of underage users, kids learn to lie early ...

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:58 pm
by liz
Max wrote:
malakai wrote:Part is due to the US Children's Online Privacy Protection Act it gets to be messy and has some controversy
Simple solution would be to stop requiring sign-ups for the free downloads.
No need to comply with privacy regulations like that, if you are not collecting any private information...
Well unfortunately there *is* a need - it's our pressing need not to get sued or shut down.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:22 pm
by Max
liz wrote:
Max wrote:
malakai wrote:Part is due to the US Children's Online Privacy Protection Act it gets to be messy and has some controversy
Simple solution would be to stop requiring sign-ups for the free downloads.
No need to comply with privacy regulations like that, if you are not collecting any private information...
Well unfortunately there *is* a need - it's our pressing need not to get sued or shut down.
I do not understand.
Is there any law that says children cannot install free software?
COPPA was mentioned, but that only applies if you are collecting personal information.
SEC. 1302. DEFINITIONS.

In this title:

(1) Child
The term “child” means an individual under the age of 13.
(2) Operator
The term “operator”—
(A) means any person who operates a website located on the Internet or an online service and who collects or maintains personal information from or about the users of or visitors to such website or online service, or on whose behalf such information is collected or maintained, where such website or online service is operated for commercial purposes, including any person offering products or services for sale through that website or online service, involving commerce—
(i) among the several States or with 1 or more foreign nations;
(ii) in any territory of the United States or in the District of Columbia, or between any such territory and—
(I) another such territory; or
(II) any State or foreign nation; or
(iii) between the District of Columbia and any State, territory, or foreign nation; but
(B) does not include any nonprofit entity that would otherwise be exempt from coverage under section 45 of this title.
Your solution -to prevent having to deal with this law- is to stop catering to children.
While I think a preferred solution might be to stop collecting the personal information of children instead.

I can understand that registration may be needed in order to purchase apps.
However that you also need to sign-up to download free software like LibreOffice is something I am uncomfortable with.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:58 pm
by marl_scot
I understand the rules regarding collecting personal info and the 13 law.

I just don't understand why the Pi people have chosen to require personal information for free downloads?

I thought the whole point of the Pi was to make it accessible to kids, and now they are encouraging kids to lie just to get something like the educational manual!

I really feel this is a step back for the Pi!

Yours
A very disappointed pi user.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:45 am
by ghans
Note that nobody forces you to use the PiStore.
Almost all contents on the PiStore are available through the
Internet or in the Raspbian Repos. So only if you want
the comfort of a one-click installation you have to accept
IndieCities TOS. If you are a more resourceful person instead ,
you will use the Links provided or package managment to get
what you want.



ghans

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:02 am
by cyrano
ghans wrote:Note that nobody forces you to use the PiStore.
Almost all contents on the PiStore are available through the
Internet or in the Raspbian Repos. So only if you want
the comfort of a one-click installation you have to accept
IndieCities TOS. If you are a more resourceful person instead ,
you will use the Links provided or package managment to get
what you want.

Now think like a kid...

You can't reach the shop without lying. You could go looking elsewhere. But it's easier to lie, isn't it?

Are we teaching kids to lie? Sounds a bit sad for an educational project.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:18 am
by ghans
But it's easier to lie, isn't it?
I don't think the foundation is responsible for this mindset.
That is a personal decision based on values. The last entity i see
responsible for those values is the foundation.


ghans

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:02 pm
by cyrano
ghans wrote:The last entity i see responsible for those values is the foundation.
It doesn't really matter who's responsible when parents, schools, TV and even the police is trying to convince kids not to give up real names, addresses etc. online...

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:57 pm
by Machai
I don't see why you could not get a parent/guardian to sign up and download the file(s) for you.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:55 pm
by RibShark
I hate this law.

Anyway, I believe that under 13's ARE allowed to sign up under this law if you get permission from a parent or guardian, so why don't you make a form that if they input the DoB to be under 13, request a parents email and get them to confirm. I have seen websites do this before.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:42 pm
by PaulCheffus
RibShark wrote:I hate this law.

Anyway, I believe that under 13's ARE allowed to sign up under this law if you get permission from a parent or guardian, so why don't you make a form that if they input the DoB to be under 13, request a parents email and get them to confirm. I have seen websites do this before.
Hi

There is a very simple workaround for that method. Create a dummy email account (Hotmail, GMail, etc and you might need to lie about your age there) and enter that as the email address and the security check has failed.

Cheers

Paul

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:15 pm
by WeUsePis
If it is about providing an email address, there are several services out there that provide temporary email addresses. They last a few minutes to a few days and then everything about them gets sent to device nul.
The age restrictions are in place for various and often good reasons, it is just that in some cases they appear to be overreaching and too strict. As far as I am concerned, I have less concerns with the hosted Pi store than with Facebook....

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:22 pm
by 4thdwarflord
ghans wrote:Note that nobody forces you to use the PiStore.
Almost all contents on the PiStore are available through the
Internet or in the Raspbian Repos. So only if you want
the comfort of a one-click installation you have to accept
IndieCities TOS. If you are a more resourceful person instead ,
you will use the Links provided or package managment to get
what you want.

ghans
So where on the internet/in the raspbian repos is iridium rising?

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:54 pm
by PaulCheffus
4thdwarflord wrote:
ghans wrote:Note that nobody forces you to use the PiStore.
Almost all contents on the PiStore are available through the
Internet or in the Raspbian Repos. So only if you want
the comfort of a one-click installation you have to accept
IndieCities TOS. If you are a more resourceful person instead ,
you will use the Links provided or package managment to get
what you want.

ghans
So where on the internet/in the raspbian repos is iridium rising?
Hi

Note the comment Almost all

Cheers

Paul

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:57 pm
by tb01110100
Turning 13 is like becoming an adult on the internet... :D

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:59 pm
by wirelessmonk
Discovering the internet is like becoming an adult on the internet.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:31 am
by mikerr
ghans wrote: Almost all contents on the PiStore are available through the
Internet or in the Raspbian Repos.
It's probably true that all apps etc started on internet/repos currently,
but now the store is open - developers may begin to put new stuff *only* on the Pi Store
4thdwarflord wrote:So where on the internet/in the raspbian repos is iridium rising?
http://iridiumrising.co.uk :mrgreen:

..but I see they have removed the direct download link from their site and now point you to the Pi Store (QED !)

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... =78&t=8588

direct download from that is:
http://iridiumrising.co.uk/IridiumRising.tar.gz

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:47 pm
by NathanBookham
This don't affect me now, because I am 15.
I used to hate COPPA, as much as I hate Members of Parliment :lol:, but I can see why it is needed.
I'm *assuming* the reason why IndieCity has to comply with COPPA is because you can enter a username, write comments/reviews etc. as well as submitting content to the store, which means that you upload files, write discriptions, provide developer information. I guess this is why they have to comply.

Although, on my site, (which is hosted in America) I have forums, profile pages, comment sections etc. and never even considered thinking about COPPA.

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:24 pm
by mediakill
Again still not sure why registration is required to visit the store to download free apps? what is this apple and you guys need to track everything. Just make the free downloads excessible to everyone and require an account for the pay downloads. Not sure where the logic lies in you guys needing to track for the free downloads because its not making much sense to have to register just to get free apps. :roll:

Re: `Cannot Join if Under 13

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:00 am
by udi
if a kid can read or use a keyboard, they can lie. learning to lie is a normal part of human development. by 4, most children seamlessly incorporate lying into their relationships and interactions. requiring registration for downloading on the other hand is not natural but if it is required to satisfy some mindless law, so be it.