User avatar
ArborealSeer
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:48 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:57 pm

Then perhaps the XBMC hype isn't such a great idea. Seems to me like nine tenths of the people wanting one actually just want it for a quiet HTPC running XBMC which perhaps isn't the best way to promote yet given that a large proportion of the intial batch will end up in the hands of people who aren't contributing to the homebrew community per se, just using the product of it.

I'm not saying XBMC isn't welcome (or emulation for that matter) as everything puts money in the coffers of the foundation but at this point the initial 10k would be served better being used by people who might bash out more bugs and make it more usable more quickly.

Whatcha think?
Pi Status > Farnell, Arrived 24/5- RS, Arrived 1/6

WereCatf
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:16 am
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:02 pm

Using Raspberry Pi as a HTPC does not mean it won't ALSO be used for other tasks, too; I for one am planning to do several projects on it and I know many other people will do so too. And besides, even if someone did use it only for XBMC purposes it again doesn't mean that that person cannot contribute to XBMC itself!

As such I cannot help but disagree with you, I think it's great that XBMC works even as well as it does as that only guarantees bigger interest on this thing and its capabilities.

User avatar
MattHawkinsUK
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:48 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:07 pm

Also anyone grabbing one purely to run XBMC from day 1 is probably not going to get vary far without doing some experimentation.

Ultimately some are going to end up in the hands of people who don't exploit them but that is just the way it goes. The important thing is that batch one will pay for a slightly bigger batch 2 etc etc. After a few months it simply won't matter.
My Raspberry Pi blog and home of the BerryClip Add-on board : http://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/
Follow me on Google+, Facebook, Pinterest and Twitter (@RPiSpy)

User avatar
ArborealSeer
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:48 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:09 pm

You won't be saying that when the XBMC 'consumers' are on here asking about 1) remote controls 2) making it faster 3) how to update to the latest version  when people who are going to develop stuff or use the distro'smore deeply  don't manage to score one out of the initial batch - especially if you're one of the unlucky ones.

If I'm lucky, I will use mine for XBMC too, however I'll won't be buying dedicated XBMC ones til availability isn't an issue
Pi Status > Farnell, Arrived 24/5- RS, Arrived 1/6

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23876
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:19 pm

What hype? Liz put one post on the home page...everything else was out of our control!
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

User avatar
ArborealSeer
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:48 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:25 pm

You think PR didn't bring it to the attention of the big american blogs in the first place? The slashdot story hints at a press release about the XBMC being mailshotted out.

The homepage reinforces the point. The second two stories on there are about using it as a media device. Nothing on there leaps out to people that the primary focus of the foundation ISN'T to supply a cheap HTPC.
Pi Status > Farnell, Arrived 24/5- RS, Arrived 1/6

TheEponymousBob
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:05 am
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:46 pm

ArborealSeer said:


You think PR didn't bring it to the attention of the big american blogs in the first place? The slashdot story hints at a press release about the XBMC being mailshotted out.

The homepage reinforces the point. The second two stories on there are about using it as a media device. Nothing on there leaps out to people that the primary focus of the foundation ISN'T to supply a cheap HTPC.



Couple of points:  First, though I'm not part of the team, I've heard it said on more than one occasion that the first batch is largely intended to pave the way for the batches to follow (both in terms of capital and ironing out the glitches), rather than to address the core aims of the project.  As such, anyone buying them for any reason will do the job - if they turn around and contribute, all the better.

Secondly, I personally believe in an effect I call "stealth education".  Even those who buy the devices as cheap media players will stand a reasonable chance of experimenting further; especially once we start seeing Slashdot stories of the form "Raspberry Pi board used to make <insert cool stuff here>".  XBMC is ideal bait.

na1pir
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:43 pm
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:03 pm

Well I think it is other way around... I will try to implement my own smart iptv with R-pi... I will even try to use it beside my other arm development boards (cortex a8 and m0). But if that fails I can still use it for XBMC or give it to someone who will make a good use of it =)

template<class T>Computers are powerful T, R-pi is just very T one;)

Prometheus
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:07 pm

ArborealSeer said:


You think PR didn't bring it to the attention of the big american blogs in the first place? The slashdot story hints at a press release about the XBMC being mailshotted out.


No it doesn't.

The submitter linked to and called the blog post a "news release", or Slashdot edited the wording to be that way so that it sounded like more than just linking to a URL.

TheEponymousBob said:

Secondly, I personally believe in an effect I call "stealth education".  Even those who buy the devices as cheap media players will stand a reasonable chance of experimenting further; especially once we start seeing Slashdot stories of the form "Raspberry Pi board used to make <insert cool stuff here>".  XBMC is ideal bait.
This this this. A lot of experimenting comes about as a project necessitates it, and in my experience it's one of the best ways of learning.

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:11 pm

I didn''t send out a press release. Nor did anyone else.

Edited to add: That said, I can't believe you're *criticising* us for doing any PR. It's likely you, and a majority of people on this forum, wouldn't have heard of the Raspberry Pi without it.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

stormy1
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:44 am

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:24 pm

The more they sell the better deals they can get on parts and production.

So volume is a good thing! If they sell enough to geeks they may be able to give an educational discount or volume discount to the schools.

They are also relying on the community for help with software and educational material.

Someone buying it to use it as a media player is not a second class customer like some people are trying to paint them. (to be fair the vast majority that are doing so are not part of the foundation)

Honestly I am getting tired of it.

This a multi-use device and the more they sell the better!

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:29 pm

I don't think anybody from the foundation would dream of criticising people who want to use it as a media player - it's more than a vast majority of people you're talking about there, it's a totality. You'll notice that we emphatically do not restrict sales depending on what people plan to do with it; and we ourselves are very excited at the potential of the device as a media player. As someone said above, we're all about stealth education; if a kid wants it as a media player there is always a chance she'll stumble upon doing other stuff with it.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

WereCatf
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:16 am
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:35 pm

liz said:


if a kid wants it as a media player there is always a chance she'll stumble upon doing other stuff with it.



Most of us geeks have stumbled on stuff exactly like that: when I first got my own computer I used it to play games. But after a while curiosity got the better of me and I started learning more and more and wanted to learn how things works inside the thing and how to create something of my own, too. That is to say that using RPi as an entertainment platform already requires some tinkering -- it's not a ready-made set where all you need to do is push 'On' -- and thus it can easily lead to one finding other types of entertainment too than just consuming multimedia.

russ wall
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:49 pm

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:43 pm

Like the birth of a new born baby, the release of Led Zeppelin 3 or Wish you were here, The return of the Jedi or ..... ahh whatever. People say the the silliest things. It's just pre-match tension.

Everybody take a big deep breath! It will happen.

People will do what they want with the Pi. From what I understand ... That is it's real strength. We can decide what we want to do with it. If you want to play movies on it, go ahead. I will. If you want to learn to program, go ahead. I will. If you want to control your kitchen with it, go ahead. I will read your posts giving me ideas how I can do it to. And my favourite post in the whole pi-everse ... tape one to a brick, it'll make a great doorstop. I won't! (my choice)

Best bit about all this is whatever we do with it, it all trickles back to the classroom eventually. Job done. Once again Liz, Eben et all .... you are stars!

User avatar
grumpyoldgit
Posts: 1452
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:20 pm

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:47 pm

Though, of course, Led Zeppelin I and II are much better and I suspect that Liz is a Piper at the Gates of Dawn fan.

aballen
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:55 pm

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that only people developing something noteworthy on the platform should be allowed to purchase one.  My understanding is that orders on the initial batch will be limited to one, that should be enough to ensure the first batch is in as many hands as possible.  Personally I want to buy a few so I can work on some peer to peer wireless monitoring devices... but I'm happy with one at launch.

Some people will simply think this is an arduino killer.  Its more than that, but you could argue the Girt board is creating the wrong publicity as well.  Again I disagree.  Really any hype that will help feed this charity will be good.

As far as XBMC, I agree with Liz, it really is stealth education.  If some kid wants to buy one for XBMC they will likely learn quite a bit in the process of getting it working.  Once it is working they will think "what else can I do with this"  that is a great way to generate interest and educate.  At $25 it will find a lot of uses that may not have merit to some, but will have merit to the person using it nonetheless.... I just can't wait till I can get one.

russ wall
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:49 pm

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:57 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


Though, of course, Led Zeppelin I and II are much better and I suspect that Liz is a Piper at the Gates of Dawn fan.



+1 Hope to god the Pi is not put back because of cover artwork problems!

TheEponymousBob
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:05 am
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:11 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:

Though, of course, Led Zeppelin I and II are much better and I suspect that Liz is a Piper at the Gates of Dawn fan.


# Blinding light, flap flicker flicker flicker blam pow! Pow! #

I just hope this isn"t what happens when I plug my Pi in for the first time...

User avatar
ArborealSeer
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:48 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:40 pm





WereCatf said:


That is to say that using RPi as an entertainment platform already requires some tinkering -- it's not a ready-made set where all you need to do is push 'On' -- and thus it can easily lead to one finding other types of entertainment too than just consuming multimedia.


But will it though? The beauty of it is that, in fact that it can be set up so that an O/S image can be duplicated and imaged to do just that.

I know i'm planning on some self-education with the platform (with both linux and opengl es) . In the dev team of 8 guys i work with 7 want a raspberry pi, 2 want it solely for XBMC, 1 for minecraft, 3 to tinker with apps on it, and me the only one so far intending to also use the development platform on it and hopefully feed some info/help back into the community.
Pi Status > Farnell, Arrived 24/5- RS, Arrived 1/6

User avatar
Jongoleur
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: O'erlooking the sea, and all those effin windfarms...

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:01 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


Though, of course, Led Zeppelin I and II are much better and I suspect that Liz is a Piper at the Gates of Dawn fan.



And why not? 

The Pi is going to be an amazingly flexible creature - plug in a card and it can be a media centre, a control system, a productivity 'puter, a development platform or whatever.

We're at a Wodehousian "watcher-of-the-skies-when-a-new-planet-swims-into-his-ken" moment and I for one welcome our new silicon overlord!

Ummm - wasn't "Watcher of the Skies" a Genesis track????

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    10+3.

Well, thats probably the weekend up the swannee.
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

axiomprime
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:56 pm

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:40 pm

I'm buying mine with money from the sale of my HTPC. I've talked many friends into buying one on the grounds that it'll make a great HTPC. I think it's the best way to get the RasPi into as many households as possible.

I'll be happy to help visitors to this forum with any questions about XBMC remotes if some members feel they're too elite for that.

hvc123
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:54 am

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:21 pm

reading the original post i personally think that the op should have probably kept that opinion to themselves.

as far as i see it the more 'PR' the better. I.E. the more that RPi sell to us geeks that will use it for HTPC, Sound systems, Video systems (webcams and the like), routers and a pleferal of other tasks, then the more money they will have to make more RPi for the education market.

even both of my sons are going to get one to learn Linux on then C and PHP among others.

as Liz said earlier if there was no PR then there would have been no interview with bbc and i would be none the wiser along with many others.

i for one WILL be helping the communtey with builds and such like, i intend on porting GB to the RPi for at least one of my projects (and i have many).

problem is i can code just not spell

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:02 pm

I'm guessing that what the OP would really have liked is just enough PR for him to find out about it, and then NO MORE EVER AGAIN.

Unfortunately for me, the PR on this thing is a full-time job which I don't expect to have an opportunity for a break from for quite a while!
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

hvc123
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:54 am

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:26 pm

rock on thats what i say the more PR the better.

more PR = more potential buyers = more money for project = better products = better  coding eduction

plus it a good up yours ( my opinion by the way, i cant talk for others ) to the other hardware manufactureswho are in the business to make an extotionat amount of money from the general population. but then hey business is is business

VIVA LA REVOLUTION

fantastic work by the way

User avatar
ArborealSeer
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:48 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: If the first batch is to stimulate interest in development...

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:42 pm

Hah no the OP is chuckling at how people are so defensive over something they've never laid hands on!

I also just bought a new house and have some building to do before I have finished my Man Cave to tinker in. I'll take my chances with the first 10k, but ultimately I won't be using it in anger til thats done.

I also, despite posts to the contrary never suggested anything along the lines of XBMC not being welcome – go read the first post again.

The point of this post was to highlight that as the early adopters are going to be for the most part the test and support dept. having a large proportion of them being users of one app might be good for XBMC on RPi, it may be to the detriment of general bug bashing the default distro/s the foundation provides if less are in the hands of users of them, and also that the volume of posts from the 'consumers' may drown out other enquiries.

I think that the current bugbear issues on here people keep posting like 'more memory' and 'more speed' won't go away with those consumers on board - along with genuine support things like people not realising that it doesn't support VGA even with a DVI->VGA cable or converter.
Pi Status > Farnell, Arrived 24/5- RS, Arrived 1/6

Return to “General discussion”