W. H. Heydt
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:56 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:31 pm
But what areas would you like improvements in? We are already doing work on VLC and Chromium, 64 bit support, bug fixing, power improvements, USB boot and general all round bug fixing.
If you recall reading my old "wish lists" you will see that the Pi4B meets or exceeds all of them. That said, there is the story of the Walter Reuther (head of the United Auto Workers--UAW--union) was asked what the UAW wanted. He replied, "More."

Personally...a very mild "nice to have" would be to get the USB ports up to full speed. Not important to do so, 4Gb is close enough to 5Gb, as it's fast enough to fully support SATA-II (3Gb/s) speeds, but even 5Gb won't fully handle SATA-III (6Gb/s).

Since the RPT saw fit to go to dual HDMI outputs with 4K capability, a logical extension would be to support 2 x 4K60 or--possibly--a higher refresh on a single 4K output. Long term goal would (5 - 8 years?) probably be to push toward 8K output as that is becoming a thing. Again, not something *I* need as the highest resolution display I have is 1920x1200 and every Pi I have handles that quite nicely. Though if the budget supports it, it'd be fun to get at least one of the Packed Pixel 15" 4K panels for a portable (or, at least, easily transportable) system.

And speaking of video... As I understand it, the DSI output is close to its limits with the 7" 800x480 display. Finding a way to increase the DSI bandwidth in the future so the Pi could support (and the RPF could produce) a 10" HD resolution display would be really nice. I have at least two systems I would upgrade if that path were available.

In general, I would happily support running cooler at this point over running faster. I can't imagine anyone turning down an option for even more RAM, but I don't see any actual need for it in anything I'm doing or plan to do.

And to make the point again....I find the Pi4B meets or exceeds *all* of the current hardware requirements for my projects and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future. I do want boot-from-USB, but that is coming and all I have to do is upgrade to it when it arrives. The Pi4B is a really slick machine and I love mine (4 so far) and plan to get more (at least 5 more, as funds permit).

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:02 am

Not all, I do recall you wanted a fan header.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:18 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:02 am
Not all, I do recall you wanted a fan header.
That's only been since the Pi4B came out. If I didn't want to also run an RTC, it wouldn't even be an issue, but if Pis continue to require more and more current, a fan header is likely to become essential for many people.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:14 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:31 pm
Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:18 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:19 pm


We have some cracking stuff in the pipeline...lots of smiley faces in our future!
No more magic blue smoke?


Personally I'm quite content with the Pi4 hardware.
I'm personally hoping for software improvements over more raw power.
We have a HW team and a software team. We can do both!

But what areas would you like improvements in? We are already doing work on VLC and Chromium, 64 bit support, bug fixing, power improvements, USB boot and general all round bug fixing.
I'm still waiting for the built-in sandwich maker that was mentioned in the post

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 5#p1467338

In the meantime, I would really like a CUDA-like programming language for the VC6 to allow young programmers an opportunity to learn how to use a GPU accelerator in their code.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:22 am

In the meantime, I would really like a CUDA-like programming language for the VC6 to allow young programmers an opportunity to learn how to use a GPU accelerator in their code.
The closest I have seen so far.
https://github.com/Idein/py-videocore6

OpenCL and Pocl are two to keep a watch on.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:00 am

Remember, I said software work, not hardware. Hardware requests just get into a mess, but it would be interesting to know where people think the software needs work.

OpenCL/CUDA is not easy, and require external contractors as we don't have the internal expertise.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:12 am

I have one specific capability request for the Mesa stack (augmenting gbm with the ability to identify the current back buffer) but I think the onus is on me to prototype or even implement it myself...

Hmmm, such a wonderful invitation and I’m stumped!

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:18 am

dickon wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:57 pm
For me, software: 4k 10b H.265 playback reliability from console. I'm still having trouble with it. I have no doubt you'll get around to getting things as stable as they should be soon.
Nearly there via V4L2 stateless API and FFmpeg. I'd hope it'll be merged within a month or so, although there may then be performance tweaks to follow. (There are two phases to the decode that can be run in parallel for the current and next frame to improve throughput. Currently they're run sequentially).
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:19 am

I guess you can keep some commonly used stuff pre-installed in the OS based on community suggestion that will save many people some time installing stuff( just a minor suggestion, not so important)
I sat thinking for 5 minutes on what to put here. Finally I put something like this.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:40 am

Daniel Gessel wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:11 pm
You have a team improving the GLES stack and bringing it up to 3.2, so that’s being taken care of.
That gets my vote as well.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:43 am

Daniel Gessel wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:12 am
I have one specific capability request for the Mesa stack (augmenting gbm with the ability to identify the current back buffer) but I think the onus is on me to prototype or even implement it myself...

Hmmm, such a wonderful invitation and I’m stumped!
Is this a change to the upstream MESA stack, or our driver at the bottom of it?
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:19 am

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:00 am
Remember, I said software work, not hardware. Hardware requests just get into a mess, but it would be interesting to know where people think the software needs work.
I can't really think of any major problems with software. I've been using Pis since the 1st version, so are used to the cycle of getting it up and running and just working around any limitations on performance.

Some "nice to haves" that would main be software tweak for me:
Auto-detect the 3.5mm (or HDMI) audio output. I'm on a HD Monitor (no audio) so use the 3.5mm jack, I need to enable this (absolutely no issue, but a nice feature to somehow default to this if no HDMI audio is found).

I use HTOP to view CPU usage, but that's a general-purpose tool with nothing Pi specific. It would be great to have similar with the Pi specific features visible (CPU clocks, Temperatures, Voltages etc)

I touched on this before, but YouTube doesn't appear to play full HD without dropping frames. I know there is a topic about this - so will re-visit.


However, none of these are major problems for me, the Pi4 is very very capable. The improved hardware (GB Ethernet, USB3) opens the doors to a few headless NAS boxes around my house.
I mainly live in the Web Browser, but occasionally do FTP and have a few Python projects on the go. However with end-user head on, out of the box, it's very capable and I don't see any major problems.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:43 am

jasonclark wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:19 am
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:00 am
Remember, I said software work, not hardware. Hardware requests just get into a mess, but it would be interesting to know where people think the software needs work.
I can't really think of any major problems with software. I've been using Pis since the 1st version, so are used to the cycle of getting it up and running and just working around any limitations on performance.

Some "nice to haves" that would main be software tweak for me:
Auto-detect the 3.5mm (or HDMI) audio output. I'm on a HD Monitor (no audio) so use the 3.5mm jack, I need to enable this (absolutely no issue, but a nice feature to somehow default to this if no HDMI audio is found).

I use HTOP to view CPU usage, but that's a general-purpose tool with nothing Pi specific. It would be great to have similar with the Pi specific features visible (CPU clocks, Temperatures, Voltages etc)

I touched on this before, but YouTube doesn't appear to play full HD without dropping frames. I know there is a topic about this - so will re-visit.


However, none of these are major problems for me, the Pi4 is very very capable. The improved hardware (GB Ethernet, USB3) opens the doors to a few headless NAS boxes around my house.
I mainly live in the Web Browser, but occasionally do FTP and have a few Python projects on the go. However with end-user head on, out of the box, it's very capable and I don't see any major problems.
Thanks. This is the sort of feedback that we want.

The HDMI audio stuff is an interesting idea, however, having spoken to the desktop guy, he's not sure he has access to the information needed to make the choice. If you can think of a way of doing it, let me know!

As for the Performance monitoring type stuff, there some work scheduled for later in the year on a similar topic, so this will be considered then. Like the idea!
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:23 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:43 am
jasonclark wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:19 am
Auto-detect the 3.5mm (or HDMI) audio output.
The HDMI audio stuff is an interesting idea, however, having spoken to the desktop guy, he's not sure he has access to the information needed to make the choice. If you can think of a way of doing it, let me know!
My old laptop detects when you put something into the 3.5mm headphone socket and switches from internal speakers to headphones. It even keeps a separate volume level for each. I suspect it is doing that using a switch inside the socket though.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:25 pm

I would really love to get some ADC capability on some GPIOs without need to add additional hardware.
Also hardware counters on GPIO would be appreciated.
Making Bluetooth LE more intuitive, perhaps?

The new additional UARTS on the Pi4 are definitively a step in the right direction.

IMHO the Raspberry should primarily remain being a tinkerer device and not a replacement for a desktop.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:28 pm

rin67630 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:25 pm
IMHO the Raspberry should primarily remain being a tinkerer device and not a replacement for a desktop.
IMHO the Raspberry Pi should support whatever earns the Foundation the most money, while still being a great device for learning on.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:30 pm

Did anyone get the message about SOFTWARE not HARDWARE being the topic of the day in here?

If people keep posting HW suggestions, I can either lock the thread or simply delete the posts. Your choice.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:31 pm

rin67630 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:25 pm
IMHO the Raspberry should primarily remain being a tinkerer device and not a replacement for a desktop.
Not where the money is to be made. Whilst not saturated, tickering is a tiny market segment. Higher power desktop stuff and industrial is a huge market.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:50 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:30 pm
Did anyone get the message about SOFTWARE not HARDWARE being the topic of the day in here?
No sorry, i did not get that. Maybe having it in the thread title could help?
Regarding software, I really miss an on-screen keyboard installed by default.
It is peanuts, but if you only have a touchscreen to start with, you are just locked out.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:54 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:31 pm
rin67630 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:25 pm
IMHO the Raspberry should primarily remain being a tinkerer device and not a replacement for a desktop.
Not where the money is to be made. Whilst not saturated, tinkering is a tiny market segment. Higher power desktop stuff and industrial is a huge market.
I am a bit surprised. I did not think the Foundation were primarily focused on making money.

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:05 pm

rin67630 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:54 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:31 pm
rin67630 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:25 pm
IMHO the Raspberry should primarily remain being a tinkerer device and not a replacement for a desktop.
Not where the money is to be made. Whilst not saturated, tinkering is a tiny market segment. Higher power desktop stuff and industrial is a huge market.
I am a bit surprised. I did not think the Foundation were primarily focused on making money.
They are not, they spend money on education.

Raspberry Pi Trading on the other hand, are very much designed to make money, and as much of it as possible, to fund the Foundation.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:07 pm

rin67630 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:50 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:30 pm
Did anyone get the message about SOFTWARE not HARDWARE being the topic of the day in here?
No sorry, i did not get that. Maybe having it in the thread title could help?
Regarding software, I really miss an on-screen keyboard installed by default.
It is peanuts, but if you only have a touchscreen to start with, you are just locked out.
What on screen keyboard do you install?
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Re: Future software improvements of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:10 pm

florence or matchbox-keyboard.

Just a few KB each.

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Re: Future software improvements of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:23 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:05 pm
They are not, they spend money on education.
Raspberry Pi Trading on the other hand, are very much designed to make money, and as much of it as possible, to fund the Foundation.
Sorry, James, but you just teased a nerve on me...
I am advocating for education in programming and related electronics.
Watching 4K videos and gaming should not belong to the most desirable education objectives of our society.
But i know, i am pretty alone here with my convictions...
:oops:

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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:40 pm

rin67630,

I can understand your concern.

The Pi Foundation is a charitable organization with an educational mission statement.

As such it needs to raise money to support that educational mission.

The Pi is that source of income. As such maximizing Pi sales is required to support the educational mission.

If that includes making the Pi attractive to a wide customer base, for whatever purpose then so be it.

As long as the Pi also continues to provide features and functionality that are useful to learners and educators. Be they students in school or tinkerers at home.
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