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rpdom
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:44 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:41 pm
rpdom wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:51 pm
But how many have more than one Pi? I'm not even sure how many I have, but it probably more than twenty.

Also, there are the big corporations that use tens of thousands of Pi.
Same here. I've probably got more than 10 Pi2Bv1.1 alone, and similar numbers of Model B Pis. Only 4 Pi4Bs...so far, but there will be at least 4 (and more like 6+) more.

I don't see any way to get the data, but it would be interesting to know what the general ownership data is as a distribution of how many Pi any individual has. I do suspect we are both outliers--as, likely, are several other frequent posters--but only owning one Pi may also be less common than one might otherwise think.
I would suggest a poll on here, but that would only be a certain subset of Pi users.
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:41 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:27 pm
Can I ask why you didn't find the forum? It's fairly prominent on the main website (in the top bar next to help), and most google searches end up here.
Depends on how you view the website - for example I do my web reading on my iPad and in portrait mode the website home page certainly doesn’t show a link to the forums. It merely has one of those hamburger things that produces an overlay with a list of links.
Unless you know to use that you’d never know there is a forum.
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jamesh
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:21 pm

timrowledge wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:41 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:27 pm
Can I ask why you didn't find the forum? It's fairly prominent on the main website (in the top bar next to help), and most google searches end up here.
Depends on how you view the website - for example I do my web reading on my iPad and in portrait mode the website home page certainly doesn’t show a link to the forums. It merely has one of those hamburger things that produces an overlay with a list of links.
Unless you know to use that you’d never know there is a forum.
Hate those hamburger things. Completely non-intuitive unless you know what they are. And yet so many websites now use them. I keep having to inform my father to click them, so clearly they are not suitable for purpose.
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spock
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:06 pm

i would like to see built-in window snapping features on the raspbian desktop. like snap to the left half, or the right half,... maybe configurable zones like in windows with fancyzones (powertoys).

what would be the highest opengl version that vc6 can support? will the driver stay at 2.1 or is there any chance for 3.3 for example?

an option in raspi-config to make the filesystem read-only (or writeable again) after the next reboot.

trejan
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:13 pm

spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:06 pm
and what would be the highest opengl version that vc6 can support? will the driver stay at 2.1 or is there any chance for 3.3 for example?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/vc4-and-v3d-opengl-drivers-for-raspberry-pi-an-update/ wrote:At present, the V3D driver exposes OpenGL ES 3.0 and OpenGL 2.1. As I mentioned above, the VideoCore VI GPU can do OpenGL ES 3.2, but it can’t do OpenGL 3.0, so future feature work will focus on OpenGL ES.

trejan
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:21 pm

spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:06 pm
an option in raspi-config to make the filesystem read-only (or writeable again) after the next reboot.
Not sure this is a good idea. You need to make significant changes to the system to make it work readonly and you end up with a non-standard install so future upgrades may cause problems. The rw/ro toggle scripts mentioned in the guide only remount /. They don't revert any of the changes and it'll just boot up readonly again.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:12 am

spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:06 pm
i would like to see built-in window snapping features on the raspbian desktop. like snap to the left half, or the right half,... maybe configurable zones like in windows with fancyzones (powertoys).
Please no, I dislike how Windows does it.
its maddening to be trying to resize a window only to have it snap to an edge you didn't want it to and then you have to unsnap it and start resizing from the beginning again.
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Heater
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:32 am

Please no.

I want my windows where I put them.

Nobody knows where I want to put them better than me.
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Puffergas
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:37 am

It would be nice to turn off duplicating files and folders on the second monitor (HDMI-2). Presently Document (folder), Wastebasket and Mounted Disks can be turned off.

X-Gen
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:08 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:35 am
X-Gen wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 am
Perfect for people who're running ultra low hardware (like the Zero), and want a working GUI.
1GHz and 512MB RAM is "ultralow" hardware? Who knew?

(For what it's worth, I've run a full Raspbian GUI on a 256MB Pi Model B.)
I bet you don't browse? Because that doesn't even work with a Pi Zero W.
The rest of the raspbian experience works pretty ok on a Zero, albeit a bit sluggish.
You really need something like a 1,6Ghz CPU to get a fluid experience in any OS nowadays; and 1GB for browsers is really nothing.

X-Gen
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:15 am

hippy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:49 am
TimG wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:58 pm
It would be fantastic to see somebody pick up development of the WiringPi library. Of all the various GPIO libraries, WiringPi was especially easy to use -- even in shell scripts.
I don't know if it should be WiringPi but I think it would be great if there were a single recommended GPIO utility interfacing to something doing GPIO marshalling with a standardised API, with wrappers and libraries for the common languages, at least C, C++, Python, Scratch and perhaps even Assembler, with an equivalent available for Bare Metal use too.

Something comprehensive which has higher level support for specific hardware devices, extensible so devices can be easily created and added to that.

That may be something based on libgpio or wrapped around that, but, whatever it is, as easily usable and user friendly as the current libraries are.

It will face resistance, probably quite a lot, but removal of /dev/gpiomem would force access through a common API to the marshalling handler, allowing programs to be able to claim and use GPIO, while preventing programs using what other programs or OS are already using, accessing things they really shouldn't.

Not having that GPIO marshalling has always seemed a weak spot that goes against the philosophy of protecting the OS and programs from what anything else is doing. I can understand how and why it is, but I think it's time to do it better, and it's probably better to get a grip on that sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't want to lose WiringPi, RPI.GPIO, Zero.GPIO, gpio, raspi-gpio, pigpio and all the rest, because if people want to use those then so be it, but I think it would be better if they could all call the common API rather than doing it themselves.

And I know it's a big, fundamental change, but I believe it would be worth doing.
While I don't use the GPIO pins, I think a derivative of this idea, could be very interesting:
The Pi foundation could invest some time to create a basic software supporting the GPIO pins.
Perhaps something that shows GPIO Pin activity, and allows one to turn on/off the pins from the desktop (by clicking on them).
Manually inside a program, or steer it externally via other programs of sorts (like Python steering the specified GPIO software)...
But let's say, you just want to enable one pin, or send some signal through another; without writing your own code, just manually enable the pin from the screen is pretty basic stuff, and could possibly be something a lot of people could want!

Aside from that, perhaps some special software that works in combination with the GPIO program (like Python), to create small scripts.
Eg: Pin X has a temperature sensor on it, when the temperature reads >50, turn on Pin Y (which is connected to a fan).
Without needing to learn python.
I'm thinking about some wire diagram, or perhaps a table with some commands...
I think there's a possibility it all could be written in Python, but a simplified layout to interact with the GPIO pins is definitely something to look into!
Last edited by X-Gen on Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

X-Gen
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:25 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:12 am
spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:06 pm
i would like to see built-in window snapping features on the raspbian desktop. like snap to the left half, or the right half,... maybe configurable zones like in windows with fancyzones (powertoys).
Please no, I dislike how Windows does it.
its maddening to be trying to resize a window only to have it snap to an edge you didn't want it to and then you have to unsnap it and start resizing from the beginning again.
Resizing windows, doesn't have to go together with snapping.
Windows can snap to the sides, without resizing.

However, if one presses CTRL + ALT + DIRECTION KEY, or WIN KEY + DIRECTION KEY, one should be able to set this up as a shortcut to do what the user said.
That way:
- Right = windows on the right half of screen/Undo snap to right when pressed again
- Left = windows snap to the left half of the screen/Undo snap to left
- UP = Windows maximize/Un-maximize
- DOWN = Windows Minimize/Undo minimize

Although the snap/resize feature, will use up a bit more system resources. So it's something that should be enabled or disabled in settings somewhere.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Future of raspberry pi

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:08 am

X-Gen wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:15 am
Without needing to learn python.
this might be a problem.
the foundations aims are actually the opposite - they want people to learn to code, what you suggest goes against that ideal and isn't likely to happen.
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spock
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:21 am

X-Gen wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:25 am
Imperf3kt wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:12 am
spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:06 pm
i would like to see built-in window snapping features on the raspbian desktop. like snap to the left half, or the right half,... maybe configurable zones like in windows with fancyzones (powertoys).
Please no, I dislike how Windows does it.
its maddening to be trying to resize a window only to have it snap to an edge you didn't want it to and then you have to unsnap it and start resizing from the beginning again.
Resizing windows, doesn't have to go together with snapping.
Windows can snap to the sides, without resizing.

However, if one presses CTRL + ALT + DIRECTION KEY, or WIN KEY + DIRECTION KEY, one should be able to set this up as a shortcut to do what the user said.
That way:
- Right = windows on the right half of screen/Undo snap to right when pressed again
- Left = windows snap to the left half of the screen/Undo snap to left
- UP = Windows maximize/Un-maximize
- DOWN = Windows Minimize/Undo minimize

Although the snap/resize feature, will use up a bit more system resources. So it's something that should be enabled or disabled in settings somewhere.
yes, this should be an option. nobody would force you to snap. :) i like how it works in windows but it could be purely keyboard shortcut based too.
Last edited by spock on Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dickon
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:10 am

Has everyone forgotten '-geometry' and xdotool(1)?

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rin67630
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:44 am

Oh and I just forgot:
Make sure that all important config screens are small enough to fit e.g into the QVGA 480*320 LCD screen!

Currently the Raspberry Pi config, panel preferences, LX terminal config etc...screens are too tall and the OK buttons are out of reach, being located outside of the screen
It is really weird for a user to try to get them adjusted to the special needs of small LCD screens.

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rin67630
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:46 am

Just a mini-improvement:
Piclone could mention the time consumed after a copy was completed, that gives a good evaluation of the quality of the SD card used.

jamesh
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:59 am

rin67630 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:44 am
Oh and I just forgot:
Make sure that all important config screens are small enough to fit e.g into the QVGA 480*320 LCD screen!

Currently the Raspberry Pi config, panel preferences, LX terminal config etc...screens are too tall and the OK buttons are out of reach, being located outside of the screen
It is really weird for a user to try to get them adjusted to the special needs of small LCD screens.
I don't think that would be possible, and would probably be detrimental to most other users with modern displays if we tried. We don't actually make a screen that small, and our configs all fit on our own display (I think!). Screens of the size you are looking at are simply not suitable for the Raspbian desktop, and should really have their own custom GUI (which I expect we won't be doing)

QVGA is 320x240, not 480x320 btw, but both are too small for any sort of mainstream desktop.
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laurent
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:26 pm

(A part of) The future of Raspberry Pi finally came to us today : Igalia just announced that the Pi 4 is now an official OpenGL ES 3.1 conformant product !
https://blogs.igalia.com/itoral/2020/01 ... nformance/

Nice work guys ;)

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PeterO
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:36 pm

laurent wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:26 pm
(A part of) The future of Raspberry Pi finally came to us today : Igalia just announced that the Pi 4 is now an official OpenGL ES 3.1 conformant product !
https://blogs.igalia.com/itoral/2020/01 ... nformance/

Nice work guys ;)
Tweet from Eben https://twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/12 ... 6679391232

"@Raspberry_Pi 4 is now OpenGL ES 3.1 conformant. Thanks to all our friends at @thekhronosgroup
and @igalia for their help in getting this done."

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Daniel Gessel
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:16 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:36 pm
laurent wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:26 pm
(A part of) The future of Raspberry Pi finally came to us today : Igalia just announced that the Pi 4 is now an official OpenGL ES 3.1 conformant product !
https://blogs.igalia.com/itoral/2020/01 ... nformance/

Nice work guys ;)
Tweet from Eben https://twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/12 ... 6679391232

"@Raspberry_Pi 4 is now OpenGL ES 3.1 conformant. Thanks to all our friends at @thekhronosgroup
and @igalia for their help in getting this done."

PeterO
This is great news!

In the context of this thread, given the VC6 can support Vulkan, it seems appropriate to ask about graphics driver focus after ES 3.2. I’d rather see performance wrung out of ES 2.0 on VC4 and ES 3.2 on VC6 before turning to other pastures. I have little need for desktop OpenGL support, per se, since my project is new and targeting Raspian.

I wonder what focus is a priority for others?

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rin67630
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:26 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:59 am
I don't think that would be possible, and would probably be detrimental to most other users with modern displays if we tried. We don't actually make a screen that small...
But:
-Adafruit does https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-pit ... i/overview
-Seed does https://www.seeedstudio.com/3-5-Inch-TF ... -2248.html
-Waveshare does https://www.waveshare.com/4inch-hdmi-lcd-h.htm
just to mention official partners from Raspberry Pi.
Many more exist...

The 3,5" 480*320 Display is the only one having the dimensions of a Pi and integrating well into many cases.

The whole thing would manly be eliminating extra space between lines.

Heater
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm

Daniel Gessel,
I wonder what focus is a priority for others?
No idea really. I have lost track of all these accelerated graphics standards. I'm never likely to want to be using any such API directly anyway.

But whatever makes webgl fly would be great. As used by libraries like THREEJS and Babylon.js. Like so:

https://www.babylonjs.com/demos/v8/
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jamesh
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm

Daniel Gessel wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:16 pm
PeterO wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:36 pm
laurent wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:26 pm
(A part of) The future of Raspberry Pi finally came to us today : Igalia just announced that the Pi 4 is now an official OpenGL ES 3.1 conformant product !
https://blogs.igalia.com/itoral/2020/01 ... nformance/

Nice work guys ;)
Tweet from Eben https://twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/12 ... 6679391232

"@Raspberry_Pi 4 is now OpenGL ES 3.1 conformant. Thanks to all our friends at @thekhronosgroup
and @igalia for their help in getting this done."

PeterO
This is great news!

In the context of this thread, given the VC6 can support Vulkan, it seems appropriate to ask about graphics driver focus after ES 3.2. I’d rather see performance wrung out of ES 2.0 on VC4 and ES 3.2 on VC6 before turning to other pastures. I have little need for desktop OpenGL support, per se, since my project is new and targeting Raspian.

I wonder what focus is a priority for others?
Asking is OK, but there may not be forthcoming answers! However, we are planning to improve the VC4 drivers (lots of devices out there with VC4!!), and there are plans to optimise what we already have in both VC4 and VC6 drivers.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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I thought, that’s an odd way to start a conversation.."

jamesh
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Re: Future of raspberry pi - software related

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:31 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm
Daniel Gessel,
I wonder what focus is a priority for others?
No idea really. I have lost track of all these accelerated graphics standards. I'm never likely to want to be using any such API directly anyway.

But whatever makes webgl fly would be great. As used by libraries like THREEJS and Babylon.js. Like so:

https://www.babylonjs.com/demos/v8/
WebGL is just OpenGL underneath IIRC, so the work being done by Igalia will benefit that.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“My wife said to me `...you’re not even listening`.
I thought, that’s an odd way to start a conversation.."

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