bob432626
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raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:23 pm

looking at the user guide i see that there is this
"product name: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants" is that 8gb sd card or 8gb ram?

if its 8gb ram, when do you think we will be seeing that, if it is 8gb sd card why is it not in the package with the raspberry pi?

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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:25 pm

It was a misprint mentioning a non-existant 8gb RAM model.
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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:25 pm

No. There is no 8GB version of the Pi 4B. It was a mistake when printing the guide.
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bob432626
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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:20 pm

sad, kind of wish there would be, that would be really nice for people doing ram intensive stuff

plugwash
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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:26 pm

IIRC Eben has said that 8GB is theoretically supported by the SoC, but no suitable ram package was available.

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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:30 am

plugwash wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:26 pm
IIRC Eben has said that 8GB is theoretically supported by the SoC, but no suitable ram package was available.
Actually...having followed various statements closely, I believe that the actual addressable external memory limit is 16GB. But at present it is unlikely that there is a feasible--in the economic sense--way of making an 8GB or 16GB Pi4B. (Basically, someone would have to decide to make the RAM package, which is almost certainly *possible* even if not being done at present, and the price of the resulting Pi4B would have to be high enough to cover the additional cost of the larger RAM package.)

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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:13 am

Yes, the SoC supports up to 16GB, but 4GB is the largest chip available, at least for the type of RAM package used in the Pi 4B.

So either some chip maker would need to produce a compatible package with more RAM, or the Pi4 system board would need to be redesigned for a different type of RAM. I'd say the latter is a highly unlikely scenario, but the former *could* happen (and likely will, in time).

As far as pricing goes, the overwhelming popularity of the 4GB model has established that people are willing to pay for more RAM (assuming the cost increase is not disproportionately large).
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bob432626
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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:34 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:13 am
Yes, the SoC supports up to 16GB, but 4GB is the largest chip available, at least for the type of RAM package used in the Pi 4B.

So either some chip maker would need to produce a compatible package with more RAM, or the Pi4 system board would need to be redesigned for a different type of RAM. I'd say the latter is a highly unlikely scenario, but the former *could* happen (and likely will, in time).

As far as pricing goes, the overwhelming popularity of the 4GB model has established that people are willing to pay for more RAM (assuming the cost increase is not disproportionately large).
as of right now... 60$ is about the highest i can go as of priceing, i hope with the release of the 8gb (if it comes out sometime next year) things will be a little cheaper, the 4gb board will be around 40-50$ and the 8gb can be around 60$, BUT i understand that it most likely it will be more expensive... so my wish is that the 4gb just gets cheaper

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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:09 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:13 am
Yes, the SoC supports up to 16GB, but 4GB is the largest chip available, at least for the type of RAM package used in the Pi 4B.

So either some chip maker would need to produce a compatible package with more RAM, or the Pi4 system board would need to be redesigned for a different type of RAM. I'd say the latter is a highly unlikely scenario, but the former *could* happen (and likely will, in time).

As far as pricing goes, the overwhelming popularity of the 4GB model has established that people are willing to pay for more RAM (assuming the cost increase is not disproportionately large).
That's my take as well. Another factor that could come into play would be further, and dramatic, drops in the price of DRAM chips. Otherwise, a 8GB (or more) Pi4B would probably have to be sold at too high a price to have much of a market even with the evident enthusiasm for the 4GB model.

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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:23 am

bob432626 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:34 am
as of right now... 60$ is about the highest i can go as of priceing, i hope with the release of the 8gb (if it comes out sometime next year) things will be a little cheaper, the 4gb board will be around 40-50$ and the 8gb can be around 60$, BUT i understand that it most likely it will be more expensive... so my wish is that the 4gb just gets cheaper
Since an 8GB module isn't being made, one must presume that current fabrication either can't do it, or the cost would be much to high to be supported by expected markets, or no one really thinks there is much demand there.

What is surprising about the prices of the various Pi4B models is how linear they are. Projecting that out would expect an 8GB Pi4B to list for $65. However, I don't think that trend would hold. *If* someone markets an 8GB RAM package that could be used on a Pi4B, I suspect the price would have to jump to more like $95...or even higher. Taking your own position, that suggests a *very* limited market. Even by those willing to pay it, I think most would pause to decide if they *really* needed the addition RAM.

It has been speculated that one thing driving the demand for the 4GB Pi4B is that the incremental cost of going from 2GB (the assumed "general purpose"/"desktop" Pi4B) to the 4GB version is such a small jump.

I think the basic trick that has made Pis (generally) so inexpensive--and therefore lots of bang for very few bucks--is the use of what I've been calling for the last 30+ years "trailing edge technology". The problem with RAM on the Pi4B is that there has been a jump to much closer to current edge tech. Sufficiently close that a jump to an 8GB module would be cutting edge, or perhaps a bit past. That gets expensive fast.

bob432626
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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:50 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:23 am
bob432626 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:34 am
as of right now... 60$ is about the highest i can go as of priceing, i hope with the release of the 8gb (if it comes out sometime next year) things will be a little cheaper, the 4gb board will be around 40-50$ and the 8gb can be around 60$, BUT i understand that it most likely it will be more expensive... so my wish is that the 4gb just gets cheaper
Since an 8GB module isn't being made, one must presume that current fabrication either can't do it, or the cost would be much to high to be supported by expected markets, or no one really thinks there is much demand there.

What is surprising about the prices of the various Pi4B models is how linear they are. Projecting that out would expect an 8GB Pi4B to list for $65. However, I don't think that trend would hold. *If* someone markets an 8GB RAM package that could be used on a Pi4B, I suspect the price would have to jump to more like $95...or even higher. Taking your own position, that suggests a *very* limited market. Even by those willing to pay it, I think most would pause to decide if they *really* needed the addition RAM.

It has been speculated that one thing driving the demand for the 4GB Pi4B is that the incremental cost of going from 2GB (the assumed "general purpose"/"desktop" Pi4B) to the 4GB version is such a small jump.

I think the basic trick that has made Pis (generally) so inexpensive--and therefore lots of bang for very few bucks--is the use of what I've been calling for the last 30+ years "trailing edge technology". The problem with RAM on the Pi4B is that there has been a jump to much closer to current edge tech. Sufficiently close that a jump to an 8GB module would be cutting edge, or perhaps a bit past. That gets expensive fast.
you are right but note i did say in a year or so, and also is there not a rule about technology where each year technology doubles in power or something like that?

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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:02 am

bob432626 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:50 am
you are right but note i did say in a year or so, and also is there not a rule about technology where each year technology doubles in power or something like that?
Not exactly... You're sort of (but not quite) quoting Moore's Law, which is more like: The number of components that can be integrated on a single chip will double every 18 to 24 months.

It is currently held that Moore's Law is breaking down, though it took far longer (about 40 years) to do so than Gordon Moore expected it to.

Where the Pi is, one *could* apply Moore's Law and expect it to hold for at least a decade, because Pis are so far from the cutting edge. *If* the RPF/RPT wasn't determined to hold the line on prices. With that constraint, Moore's Law doesn't really apply.

bob432626
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Re: raspberry pi model b 1gb, 2gb, 4gb + 8gb variants?

Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:40 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:02 am
bob432626 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:50 am
you are right but note i did say in a year or so, and also is there not a rule about technology where each year technology doubles in power or something like that?
Not exactly... You're sort of (but not quite) quoting Moore's Law, which is more like: The number of components that can be integrated on a single chip will double every 18 to 24 months.

It is currently held that Moore's Law is breaking down, though it took far longer (about 40 years) to do so than Gordon Moore expected it to.

Where the Pi is, one *could* apply Moore's Law and expect it to hold for at least a decade, because Pis are so far from the cutting edge. *If* the RPF/RPT wasn't determined to hold the line on prices. With that constraint, Moore's Law doesn't really apply.
ok then i can understand that

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