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icecold
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:31 am

ragin_koala wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:35 pm
I do have a 1.2 c03112 that I got at the 18/10/2019 maker faire, thought it was just like any other one
Can you please upload photos of the board?

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Maybe this is an excuse to buy another 4B4, to see if I get a 1.2? :mrgreen:
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:41 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:45 pm
Maybe this is an excuse to buy another 4B4, to see if I get a 1.2? :mrgreen:
/shrug When the budget will handle it, I'm going to be getting about 3 more Pi4B4 boards.

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ehem
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:19 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:07 pm
The USB-C fix might not even warrant a new revision number, because it has no effect on software, firmware or certifications. Small discrete components on PCBs often change over time. Ever wonder why there are empty component spaces on most PCBs? This revision 1.2 thing (if true) is probably a red herring that has nothing to do with the USB-C fix.
Often the empty spaces are components needed during board test phases, but not needed on released boards. Empty spaces often include console serial ports and JTAG headers.

ragin_koala wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:35 pm
I do have a 1.2 c03112 that I got at the 18/10/2019 maker faire, thought it was just like any other one
Have you observed any differences with the board? Have you tried this board with a known to be smart charger which doesn't work without fixed USB-C? As was suggested by @laurent, this could merely be minor engineering refinements which address other issues and no USB-C fix.

emma1997 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:16 pm
Not surprising to me at all. I think RPF/RPT may want to 'flush the pipes' to avoid Osbourne Effect. I know I wouldn't mind treading water for a month or two, maybe even longer, in order to get latest and greatest.
The irony of course being that Osborne computers was done in by
stupid management
, not the phenomenon named for them. At this point waiting for the fixed board shouldn't have very high value for anyone since waiting has its own costs.


On the hopeful front not only is this within the time frame I was speculating, it is on the early side so in addition to the USB-C fix other things may be sooner than I had hoped. This might put the 8GB RP4 around February of 2020. The project I've got won't see much benefit from fully functional USB-C, but will see great benefit from having more memory.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:36 am

What makes you think an 8gb Pi4b will ever see the light of day and what on earth do you need that much ram on a Pi for, it's not a professional video editing software suite.

Judging by comments from an engineer in another thread, this "v1. 2" Pi is highly likely to be fake
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:48 am

2017 Zero has certification numbers on it.
Silkscreen revision only, required by some counties?

Perhaps, that's what happened to the Pi4?
Japan requirement?
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:57 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:36 am

Judging by comments from an engineer in another thread, this "v1. 2" Pi is highly likely to be fake
Nonsense. The V1.2 is probably due to a component change (probably due to a supply chain change) that's needed a small rework. The comments from James were his way of saying "that's confidential and I can't and won't tell you".

The folks who don't have a clue assume that's going to mean a fix for the overblown and overegged USB-C non-problem.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:39 pm

ehem wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:19 am
This might put the 8GB RP4 around February of 2020.
Don't hold your breath. It has been officially stated that 4GB is the max because there are no larger RAM chips compatible with the board.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:43 pm

This new Rev 1.2 string is reported by /proc/cpuinfo and by dmesg, so it has some implications for the software. If the Rev 1.2 changes would be fully transparent for the software, then it would hardly make any sense to report the revision in /proc/cpuinfo. Small component changes on the board might warrant a revision change of the silk screen text, but could be transparent to the software and would not warrant changes to /proc/cpuinfo.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:48 pm

As with any future predictions, holding breath is never recommended!!
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:50 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:36 am
What makes you think an 8gb Pi4b will ever see the light of day
Probably from not believing the mention of an 8GB version in the Safety and User Guide and other documentation sent to the FCC was the simple typo it is said to have been but an accidental revealing of future intentions.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:17 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:07 pm
The USB-C fix might not even warrant a new revision number, because it has no effect on software, firmware or certifications. Small discrete components on PCBs often change over time. Ever wonder why there are empty component spaces on most PCBs? This revision 1.2 thing (if true) is probably a red herring that has nothing to do with the USB-C fix.
AIUI the revision numbers (or in some cases letters) of PCBs usually get bumped if there is any changes to the PCB itself, apart from anything else you need to track the new PCBs through the system so you use the correct components and correct pick and place files for the PCBs you are assembling.

Designers do sometimes leave empty component spaces, but they can only do that where they anticipate there may be a need for changes, if something is unexpected that doesn't help.

Also while i'm not sure if the Pi actually uses it for anything with current firmware there is a signal line going from the CC pins to a connection on the PMIC. A proper USB C fix might require adding a second such line, which would be a firmware-visible change.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:43 pm

plugwash wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:17 pm
Designers do sometimes leave empty component spaces, but they can only do that where they anticipate there may be a need for changes, if something is unexpected that doesn't help.
Also, there are often decoupling capacitors in the original design which turn out not to be needed. It is easier to simple not fit them than to redesign the board. This has happened with previous Pi models.
Unreadable squiggle

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:25 pm

hippy wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:50 pm
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:36 am
What makes you think an 8gb Pi4b will ever see the light of day
Probably from not believing the mention of an 8GB version in the Safety and User Guide and other documentation sent to the FCC was the simple typo it is said to have been but an accidental revealing of future intentions.
You answered the wrong question, I did not ask why you think a Pi4 8GB model may be a possibility, I asked why you think it would ever be produced.
It has already been stated numerous times that there is no 8GB RAM package compatible with the Pi4b and that current ram packages available in 8GB variants, if somehow made compatible, are simply too expensive to consider anyway.
DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:57 am
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:36 am

Judging by comments from an engineer in another thread, this "v1. 2" Pi is highly likely to be fake
Nonsense. The V1.2 is probably due to a component change (probably due to a supply chain change) that's needed a small rework. The comments from James were his way of saying "that's confidential and I can't and won't tell you".

The folks who don't have a clue assume that's going to mean a fix for the overblown and overegged USB-C non-problem.
Nonsense.
If a revision 1.2 was already available, there would be no need for Jamesh to keep hush hush about it.
What it changed maybe, but not its existence.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:42 pm

Unless there's need to avoid reduced sales. RP people seem quite concerned with sales and margins, non-profit aspect notwithstanding.

I think if there were actual significant technical improvements maybe, maybe not even then. Not here in any case. Wouldn't be smart to damage bottom line for no good reason.

I also think there's a significant marketing advantage to generating as much suspense, mystery, and intrigue as possible. You can't buy this kind of publicity. Not for the price anyway.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:07 pm

They are currently selling all the Pi 4's they can make. I suspect the sale side supply chain is still fairly starved for product. Given that I doubt that there is any great need for secrecy around an minor rev bump. Nor is there any need for any grand announcement.

Plus some activists and hobbyist that are lurking about the forums may have a rather inflated sense of their clout. They are selling millions of Pis. Most Pi owners have likely never even heard about raspberrypi.org, let alone created an account and avidly followed breaking news stories about a possible new rev. RPT has stated repeatedly, they do not pre announced, period. They don't even do puff pieces about the next great things they are working on. They announce products as they release them. No drama, suspense or mystery building. Just radio silence until something is ready.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:28 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:07 pm
They are currently selling all the Pi 4's they can make. I suspect the sale side supply chain is still fairly starved for product.
I suspect Osbourne (or other companies that did actually suffer) thought the same. Problem is these decisions may have effects months or years later. Sometimes 'ringing" and 'overshoot' phenomena may actually cause out of phase sales depression that multiply damage big time.

Personally I like the way RPF keeps things close to the vest. Makes these surprise releases that much more fun.

As far as starved, Ebay prices have dropped dramatically last few weeks. Only couple bucks over MSRP now. IMO the drought is over. Would be nice for Zero too but unlikely since it appears more of a loss-leader/marketing campaign than actual product line.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:08 am

emma1997 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:28 pm
Would be nice for Zero too but unlikely since it appears more of a loss-leader/marketing campaign than actual product line.
The $5 price for the Pi Zero, and $10 price for the Zero W are an introductory, one-per-customer price. Of course enforcing that over a large international market would be logistically difficult, and legally questionable, so most dealers simply enforce a one-per-order limit. However, the official word from the folks at the Raspberry Pi Foundation is, one-per-customer (and there are a few dealers who check order history and will not sell you another if you have previously gotten one from them).

You can buy the Pi Zero models in bulk directly from Raspberry Pi Trading, but at a higher price per unit (and only in large quantities). There's also the WH model with pre-installed header, which is not restricted by RPF policy, but some dealers still limit orders to one.

FYI: there is profit being made on the Pi Zero, just not much (so it's not a loss-leader). The super low price and quantity restriction is intended to make computers more accessible to as many people as possible. Everybody can get one $5 computer (and they won't all be snapped up by companies or individuals who want dozens or hundreds).
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:20 am

Maybe loss-leader can be a loose term sometimes to mean even very small profit. I suspect whatever profit they do make there pales in comparison to the boost it gave to other product lines.

It's fortunate they instituted this policy anyway because w/o it I would probably have slim chance to ever get one. Cleaned out years ahead by resellers and factories.

Or worse no chance at all if they never came up with the idea. It absolutely amazes me a computer might exist for 5 bucks that plays movies and surf the net. Even so never considered a real PC until Pi4 came along. Not $5 but another amazing bargain for what it does.

Although I don't know if I can survive another day w/o USB boot and USB-C fix. lol

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:10 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:36 am
What makes you think an 8gb Pi4b will ever see the light of day and what on earth do you need that much ram on a Pi for, it's not a professional video editing software suite.
While it was very much a partial quote and out of context, are you of the opinion that 640K should be enough for everyone? There are always things which can use more memory.

In my case, why should I plan for a mere Raspberry PI desktop? Since a relative has ended up with a setup of having two desktops, one running Ubuntu Linux and one running FreeBSD, I think I can replace their desktop with a Raspberry PI. While I'm at it though I plan to go well past that low bar. Instead my goal is to use a single Raspberry PI and be able to be running both desktop images at the same time.

One way of accomplishing this is to have the primary OS be Xen. Have both the Ubuntu and FreeBSD images listening for XDMCP requests and run two Xorg processes in "Domain 0". Thus being able to switch between two OSes by pressing Ctrl-Alt-F7 and Ctrl-Alt-F8.

This though means 4 OSes all running at the same time and 4GB no longer seems quite so big. I'm fairly confident 4GB is adequate, but it isn't exactly roomy. As anyone who has experimented with VMs will tell you, once you have a few you always want more. I'm pretty sure this is why AMD's desktop chips top out at 64GB/128GB of memory (128GB is Threadripper), while their server offerings allow for 1-2TB/socket (yes, if you want to spend money you can get an AMD or Intel system with terabytes of RAM).
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:36 am
Judging by comments from an engineer in another thread, this "v1. 2" Pi is highly likely to be fake
There are enough distinct reports to make them seem pretty plausible. I'm seeing a hint from a source not yet cited on this thread that something was happening, and a v1.2 board would readily explain those hints.

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:25 pm
If a revision 1.2 was already available, there would be no need for Jamesh to keep hush hush about it.
Likely that means the sales channel hasn't yet been fully flushed. Some retailers/vendors may still have v1.1 boards for sale and until all the v1.1 boards are sold, they're not going to say anything. There are enough corroborating indications for me to be confident the v1.2 board are starting to show. Right now it is potluck which you get.

bjtheone wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:07 pm
They are currently selling all the Pi 4's they can make. I suspect the sale side supply chain is still fairly starved for product. Given that I doubt that there is any great need for secrecy around an minor rev bump. Nor is there any need for any grand announcement.
Quite true, but it seems the Raspberry PI Foundation's policy is absolute silence. Absolute silence a reasonable policy, but does result in some level of annoyance. I think there are enough distinct reports to believe them.

Yet since time has value I think I may opt for what I can get now. Having one which works with any olde power supply I plug in is nice, but not actually critical for my purpose.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:41 am

10 days and still not a single hint of proof of the claim in the first post.

FUD.

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ehem
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:54 am

Cob wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:41 am
10 days and still not a single hint of proof of the claim in the first post.

FUD.
The claim in the first post has already been proven. Someone with an account on Reddit has claimed they have a RP4 v1.2 and a revision code c03112. Now there is some doubt as to whether the user on Reddit actually had a Raspberry PI 4 v1.2, but there is no doubt that someone on Reddit claimed to have one.

You're welcome to edit your post and correct your claim.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:00 am

ehem wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:54 am
Cob wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:41 am
10 days and still not a single hint of proof of the claim in the first post.

FUD.
The claim in the first post has already been proven. Someone with an account on Reddit has claimed they have a RP4 v1.2 and a revision code c03112. Now there is some doubt as to whether the user on Reddit actually had a Raspberry PI 4 v1.2, but there is no doubt that someone on Reddit claimed to have one.

You're welcome to edit your post and correct your claim.
Proven???

The claim on Reddit is BS, and thus the first post here is also BS. The 2nd and 4th posts (mine btw) still stand true.

FUD.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:09 am

Cob wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:00 am
The claim on Reddit is BS, and thus the first post here is also BS. The 2nd and 4th posts (mine btw) still stand true.
My post is BS? People on this forum can be pretty damn rude. I'd like to hear your thoughts on https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 6#p1565279 or will you also be insulting and dismissive?

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ehem
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:24 am

Cob wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:00 am
Proven???

The claim on Reddit is BS, and thus the first post here is also BS. The 2nd and 4th posts (mine btw) still stand true.
No. The only text in the first post is "Somebody on Reddit said they've got a Pi 4B 4GB v1.2 with revision code c03112?". That much is true. There is such a message on Reddit, thus the report on this forum is true.

Now your expression of doubt in the 2nd and 4th is still quite reasonable, but this has no bearing on the truth of the 1st post.

Cob wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:00 am
FUD.
This is untrue. "FUD" is generally shorthand for used for "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt". There is nothing negative in either the 1st post on this board, nor the referred to post on Reddit. If anything "FUD" applies better to your message as you are doubting a poster on Reddit.

If what you really mean is you think the poster on Reddit is lying, then that is reasonable. There is not yet enough evidence for a conclusion on this, though presently I consider the balance of evidence to be pretty persuasive and we'll need time for a final resolution.

I ask that you please refrain from any messages which could get this thread closed.

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