jamesh
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Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:15 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:01 pm
Standing the RPi on its side and running a fully updated Raspbian Buster OS, appears to lower temps:

https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2019/1 ... than-ever/
It doesn't just appear to, it actually does.

See here for the software change. https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... agement.md

The board on its side means increased air flow over both sides of the board as the hot air convects upwards. Flat on the desk, air gets trapped underneath, meaning the underside of the board get warmer.

Also, because of the orientation of the SoC, the electrons in it flow downhill, using gravity, so they use less power to get to the bottom of the chip. Less power == less energy used. Since the power socket it now on the top of the board, the electrons fall out the bottom of the SoC and are continually replaced by fresh ones from the power in, and of course, fresh electrons are more efficient.
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davidcoton
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:46 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:15 pm
Also, because of the orientation of the SoC, the electrons in it flow downhill, using gravity, so they use less power to get to the bottom of the chip. Less power == less energy used. Since the power socket it now on the top of the board, the electrons fall out the bottom of the SoC and are continually replaced by fresh ones from the power in, and of course, fresh electrons are more efficient.
Sorry, James, you are ignoring basic circuit theory. The electrons, having fallen from the 0V connection to the bottom of the SoC (where its toes are, I presume), then have to climb back up to the USB-C positive connection. And as any hill walker will tell you, going uphill gets you warm.

It is possible, of course, that falling electrons gain mass that is not lost on rising again. That mass would come from the heat energy, thus cooling the SoC very effectively (E=mc² and all that). If so, I hope RPT/F have applied for a patent is harnessing that technology....
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bluenote
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:03 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:26 am
I wasn't particularly impressed with the Pi4 Flirc case, but I must admit that it does work.
Probably not as well as it could and in hindsight I could have bought a much better cooling solution for less money.

I'd still recommend it, but indeed its poorly made and designed.
What would you recommend now ? My preference is cheap >> effective and probably passive ?

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Imperf3kt
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:21 pm

bluenote wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:03 pm
Imperf3kt wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:26 am
I wasn't particularly impressed with the Pi4 Flirc case, but I must admit that it does work.
Probably not as well as it could and in hindsight I could have bought a much better cooling solution for less money.

I'd still recommend it, but indeed its poorly made and designed.
What would you recommend now ? My preference is cheap >> effective and probably passive ?
After much more use, I'm satisfied with the performance of the Flirc case, but in all honesty, standing the Pi vertically does a near identical job.
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52:4C:52:42:41

bluenote
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:21 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:21 pm
bluenote wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:03 pm
Imperf3kt wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:26 am
I wasn't particularly impressed with the Pi4 Flirc case, but I must admit that it does work.
Probably not as well as it could and in hindsight I could have bought a much better cooling solution for less money.

I'd still recommend it, but indeed its poorly made and designed.
What would you recommend now ? My preference is cheap >> effective and probably passive ?
After much more use, I'm satisfied with the performance of the Flirc case, but in all honesty, standing the Pi vertically does a near identical job.
Interesting, thanks. I have cobbled together plastic cases that I had left over from pi2b days that I've dremeled out to fit, and so maybe drilling some extra holes and standing vertical will be good enough.

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neilgl
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:38 pm

After much more use, I'm satisfied with the performance of the Flirc case, but in all honesty, standing the Pi vertically does a near identical job.
Ah not quite - see MagPi issue 90 page 73.

ejolson
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:08 am

neilgl wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:38 pm
After much more use, I'm satisfied with the performance of the Flirc case, but in all honesty, standing the Pi vertically does a near identical job.
Ah not quite - see MagPi issue 90 page 73.
The article in the MagPi is nice, but it does not run the test long enough for the temperature to reach an equilibrium state. Thus, for many of the solutions one is seeing the effects of heat capacity rather than how effectively the heat is radiated. In particular, it is possible, especially given the lack of fins and holes to promote convection, that the equilibrium temperature Pi in the FLIRC case will be greater than the bare one standing on edge. It's just that it takes longer to reach that equilibrium and the tests weren't run that long.

ganzgustav22
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:49 am

neilgl wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:38 pm
After much more use, I'm satisfied with the performance of the Flirc case, but in all honesty, standing the Pi vertically does a near identical job.
Ah not quite - see MagPi issue 90 page 73.
That case comparison in the MagPi magazine is useless because they measured only the outside of the case, not the real CPU temperature.
A closed case made from 1 inch thick styrofoam would also stay cool on the outside, while we'll probably all agree that this wouldn't keep a Pi on the inside cool ...

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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:49 pm

+1 here for the FLIRC case as well, but I have also heard good things about the Argon Neo case. I haven't used one myself yet but will probably give one a punt with my next Pi 4. I always prefer passive cooling as I tend to fit and forget and many small fans (in particular) are not reliable enough for my liking, either through mechanical failure or their tendancy to suck in dust.

https://thepihut.com/collections/raspbe ... -pi-4-case

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SyncBerry
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:30 pm

The good point for the flirc is it is a very good mechanical stand (path from SoC case to ambiant temperature) to attach another heatsink if we need more passive cooling. See my tweak above.

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kerry_s
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:57 pm

man, i just woke up to the fan bearings screaming this mourning.
i pulled the fan and i'm just running it fan-less with the case on it's side. the temp difference seems to be only 3->5 degrees higher than it was with the fan. i haven't started watching youtube yet so not sure how high it's going to get. i have heat sinks on everything so i'm not really to concerned. just have to decide to replace fan or a shiny new case. :D

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SyncBerry
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:27 am

No fan => no fan failure. Just choose ;)

rwcooper
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Re: HOT Raspberry Pi 4 - 4GB

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:08 pm

I've tried a few different cases and fans. I've found the ICE Tower cooler works the best for me. It's not completely silent, but it is quiet. Typically the temperature ranges from 29'C at idle to 40'C with all cores at 100% for short periods of time. I did a 10 minute test with all cores @ 100% and the temperature remained below 50'C (I don't recall the exact max temp). It may be possible that you have a Pi that runs a bit on the hot side. I have one Pi 3B+ that runs around 60'C at idle (no case), with active cooling that temperature comes down significantly.

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