User avatar
Fidelius
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:40 pm
Location: Germany

Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:32 pm

So far with all my Pi devices, when I shutdown one (for example with "sudo poweroff"), the SD-card's green LED blinks a few times and then goes off, and also the network socket's yellow LED and green LED (which shows network activity I think) go off.

This morning I did an

Code: Select all

sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade
and some firmware packages have been updated on my Pi4.

Now when I shutdown this Pi4, shortly afterwards the SD-card's green LED blinks a few times before it goes off, as expected. But the network socket's yellow LED stays on and its green LED continues to blink and indicating network traffic (the Pi is connected to a router within an Intranet/LAN, so there's always network traffic). This despite the Pi4 being off.

What's going on with the network's shining green and blinking yellow LED when my Pi4 is basically off, please?

timg236
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:16 pm

HALT doesn't turn off the power supply outputs unless the bootloader is configured with WAKE_ON_GPIO=0 and POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=1

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... _config.md

Power off on halt is a new feature on Pi4 which was enabled by default but some HATs don't like 3V3 being switched off whilst 5V is still on. There is no way of disabling the 5V pin because it's directly connected to the input power supply.

User avatar
Fidelius
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:40 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:43 am

Thank you for the reply.

So do I understand it correctly that this is a new behaviour with our Pi4 due to some firmware change in the recent few days?

And if I wanted to have the old behaviour (i.e. yellow+green LED go off after the Pi's shutdown) I would have to follow the steps mentioned in your link to re-flash the bootloader EEPROM (with WAKE_ON_GPIO=0 and POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=1) ?

This is the way my Pi4 is configured currently (I didn't changed anything):

Code: Select all

benutzer@pi4:~$ vcgencmd bootloader_config
BOOT_UART=0
WAKE_ON_GPIO=1
POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=0
FREEZE_VERSION=0  

What does HAT mean by the way? (I'm a totally hardware layman.)

Thanks a lot!

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 17174
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:48 am

HAT is the name for Pi add-on boards that follow a certain set of standards.

It stands for Hardware Attached on Top.
Unreadable squiggle

User avatar
Fidelius
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:40 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:58 am

I see. Thanks Rpdom.

Does your Pi4 (in case you have one) too show the new network LED behaviour when you shutdown the Pi?

User avatar
hippie403
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:45 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:11 am

timg236 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:16 pm
HALT doesn't turn off the power supply outputs unless the bootloader is configured with WAKE_ON_GPIO=0 and POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=1

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... _config.md

Power off on halt is a new feature on Pi4 which was enabled by default but some HATs don't like 3V3 being switched off whilst 5V is still on. There is no way of disabling the 5V pin because it's directly connected to the input power supply.
The documentation specifies using a beta bootloader. Is that correct or should we be using a .bin from the critical directory?

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 17174
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:13 am

Fidelius wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:58 am
I see. Thanks Rpdom.

Does your Pi4 (in case you have one) too show the new network LED behaviour when you shutdown the Pi?
Yes, I do have one, and yes, after poweroff the green network LED keeps flashing while the yellow one stays on.

It's not something I would normally notice, as I rarely shut most of my Pis down.
Unreadable squiggle

timg236
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:14 am

hippie403 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:11 am
timg236 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:16 pm
HALT doesn't turn off the power supply outputs unless the bootloader is configured with WAKE_ON_GPIO=0 and POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=1

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... _config.md

Power off on halt is a new feature on Pi4 which was enabled by default but some HATs don't like 3V3 being switched off whilst 5V is still on. There is no way of disabling the 5V pin because it's directly connected to the input power supply.
The documentation specifies using a beta bootloader. Is that correct or should we be using a .bin from the critical directory?
All of the critical updates support those config options

User avatar
Fidelius
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:40 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:31 am

Thanks Timg236 and Rpdom for your help.

So I just flashed (for the first time manually) the Pi4's EEPROM, like explained in the fine "Pi4 Bootloader Configuration" document, and it worked fine! Now when the Pi shuts-down, its network's green and yellow LEDs go off, like it used to be before.

Just out of curiosity:
  1. Since the LEDs behaviour changed in the last days, did a recent "apt full-upgrade" actually flash the Pi4's EEPROM like I did do now manually? Usually I read what an "apt full-upgrade" writes on screen, but I don't always understand everything it says, so maybe I missed these bootloader-flashing messages.
  2. Would we have to flash the bootloader EEPROM manually again to keep the network-LEDs-off, if a future "apt full-upgrade" changed the bootloader, overriding our manually changed settings?

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26660
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:08 am

There's a change going through that will allow you to specify what the ethernet plug LED's do during use. One of the options is Off, so I suspect, although not tried, that that will also means they stay off on a power down.

https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/pull/3316

Just been merged, so will be in rpi-update in the next few days.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

timg236
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:14 am

Fidelius wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:31 am
Thanks Timg236 and Rpdom for your help.

So I just flashed (for the first time manually) the Pi4's EEPROM, like explained in the fine "Pi4 Bootloader Configuration" document, and it worked fine! Now when the Pi shuts-down, its network's green and yellow LEDs go off, like it used to be before.

Just out of curiosity:
  1. Since the LEDs behaviour changed in the last days, did a recent "apt full-upgrade" actually flash the Pi4's EEPROM like I did do now manually? Usually I read what an "apt full-upgrade" writes on screen, but I don't always understand everything it says, so maybe I missed these bootloader-flashing messages.
  2. Would we have to flash the bootloader EEPROM manually again to keep the network-LEDs-off, if a future "apt full-upgrade" changed the bootloader, overriding our manually changed settings?
rpi-eeprom-update uses rpi-eeprom-config to copy the settings from the current bootloader to the updated version.

If there are < 3 lines then it will assume that this is the original launch config and overwrite it because we changed the recommended WAKE_ON_GPIO setting. However, all the newer configs are larger so once customised you should never hit that corner case.

The Ethernet PHY does link negotiation automatically upon reset and by default LEDs are on. It's not software controlled.

If the latest Linux driver has turned the LEDs off then power-off-on-halt isn't required to turn off the LEDs because the PHY won't be reset during HALT.

User avatar
Fidelius
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:40 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:27 pm

Thanks for the explanations. Also problem solved. Furthermore, with the Pi we're always learning more things about Linux, boot procedures, computers, etc. Very interesting and very helpful.

User avatar
PeterO
Posts: 5880
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:35 am

James,

Will any configuration changes have to be re-applied after every future update ? I only ask because you guys have a history of just over writing user's changes to configuration files without any warning !

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26660
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:14 am

PeterO wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:35 am
James,

Will any configuration changes have to be re-applied after every future update ? I only ask because you guys have a history of just over writing user's changes to configuration files without any warning !

PeterO
The changes are made using a device tree overlay, so specified in config.txt. Should stay between updates.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

tooOldForUsernames
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:06 am

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:32 am

timg236 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:16 pm
HALT doesn't turn off the power supply outputs unless the bootloader is configured with WAKE_ON_GPIO=0 and POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=1

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... _config.md

Power off on halt is a new feature on Pi4 which was enabled by default but some HATs don't like 3V3 being switched off whilst 5V is still on. There is no way of disabling the 5V pin because it's directly connected to the input power supply.

Hello. I think I've got the same "problem" as OP.

I've recently bought three Rpi4 (4gb) boards. Absolutely the same boards, from the same store. They might even be from the same batch. The thing is that two of them turn off ethernet's yellow and green LEDs on halt, but the third one doesn't. Its yellow LED is on, while green one starts blinking on halt. I didn't update firmware on any of the boards. I'm using the same micro sd card with Raspbian Buster Lite (2019-09-26), which I switch between the boards.

Here is some info about firmware, OS, boot_config (which looks to be 100% the same on each board):

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 4.19.75-v7l+ #1270 SMP Tue Sep 24 18:51:41 BST 2019 armv7l GNU/Linux

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd version
Sep 24 2019 17:34:30
Copyright (c) 2012 Broadcom
version cd3add54955f8fa065b414d8fc07c525e7ddffc8 (clean) (release) (start)

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd bootloader_config
BOOT_UART=0
WAKE_ON_GPIO=1
POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=0

How could it be explained?
Is it a hardware issue? Should I replace the third board while it's covered with a store's warranty?


Thanks.

timg236
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:25 am

The board is working correctly. Te default HALT state after the launch firmware is idle and not power-off so the Ethernet PHY will be active and automatically do link negotiation and the LEDs will be active.

You need to select POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=1 and WAKE_ON_GPIO=0 ... there's lots of posts on that.

tooOldForUsernames
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:06 am

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:55 pm

timg236 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:25 am
The board is working correctly. Te default HALT state after the launch firmware is idle and not power-off so the Ethernet PHY will be active and automatically do link negotiation and the LEDs will be active.

You need to select POWER_OFF_ON_HALT=1 and WAKE_ON_GPIO=0 ... there's lots of posts on that.
Thank you for the quick reply!

I understood from the earlier posts in this thread that I can change the behaviour of my third board.

My question was more about the difference in behaviour of that board and two other boards. The same OS, same firmware, same bootloader_config. Why do they turn off Ethernet PHY on HALT? Could you please explain it to me? I'm just trying to understand that before updating any firmware, drivers, or modifying the configuration/device tree overlays/etc (don't want to introduce more noise in the puzzle).

tooOldForUsernames
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:06 am

Re: Shutdown Pi4 but network's yellow+green LED stay active, after today's firmware update?

Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:09 pm

JFYI, I've finally figured out the difference. The board that kept LAN LEDs on after shutdown was RPi4 rev1.1. Two other boards, which turns LEDs off were rev1.2.

Return to “General discussion”