bjtheone
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:59 pm

Reader's Digest Mode: EDID works just fine for most folks. Does odd things with monitors with out of the norm resolutions. They can be set manually.

andrum99
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:08 pm

It seems you can use the video= parameter on the kernel command line to force a video mode manually - docs are at https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/modedb.txt

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PeterO
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:08 pm

6by9 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:36 pm
. The main open one is over 1366x768 resolutions because the horizontal sync width and back porches are an odd number of pixels. The new pipeline runs at two pixels/clock, therefore it has needed some tweaking to make it behave sensibly under those conditions.
AH, that explains why my Motorola Lapdock doesn't work on a Pi4. Any idea when it might be fixed ?
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:18 pm

andrum99 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:08 pm
It seems you can use the video= parameter on the kernel command line to force a video mode manually - docs are at https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/modedb.txt
The firmware already tries to do that to push the kernel to choose the same mode as the firmware, as that would then match any hdmi_mode/group parameters in config.txt. However that only applies to the console - X ignores it totally.
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:29 am

6by9 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:18 pm
andrum99 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:08 pm
It seems you can use the video= parameter on the kernel command line to force a video mode manually - docs are at https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/modedb.txt
The firmware already tries to do that to push the kernel to choose the same mode as the firmware, as that would then match any hdmi_mode/group parameters in config.txt. However that only applies to the console - X ignores it totally.
It seems there's an override in DRM to let you pass in an EDID file instead of probing the display - just like there is in the Pi VC4 firmware. You can actually create a "synthetic" EDID with just the mode(s) you are after. I can't find a way to specify the desired mode directly for some reason: if there isn't one then there definitely should be - it *was* possible pre-DRM.

Heater
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:25 am

Yes, I was wondering what happened.

Back in the old days there was a huge and complicated configuration file for X. I recall struggling with it many times. But in there you could configure pretty much any detail of what ever monitor/graphics you had, what with it's "mode lines" and whatever it was. I forget exactly.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:15 am

andrum99 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:29 am
6by9 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:18 pm
andrum99 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:08 pm
It seems you can use the video= parameter on the kernel command line to force a video mode manually - docs are at https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/modedb.txt
The firmware already tries to do that to push the kernel to choose the same mode as the firmware, as that would then match any hdmi_mode/group parameters in config.txt. However that only applies to the console - X ignores it totally.
It seems there's an override in DRM to let you pass in an EDID file instead of probing the display - just like there is in the Pi VC4 firmware. You can actually create a "synthetic" EDID with just the mode(s) you are after. I can't find a way to specify the desired mode directly for some reason: if there isn't one then there definitely should be - it *was* possible pre-DRM.
Adding hdmi_edd_file=1 (plus potentially hdmi_edid_filename=foo.dat) to config.txt will also override the EDID that DRM sees through vc4-fkms-v3d. It's the way I've been debugging EDID issues throughout.
Using the DRM override requires messing with initramfs to make it available before the filing system is necessarily up and running, which is significantly more complicated.

Editing EDID files is also not the most trivial of things to do. I've yet to come across a decent editor for Linux.
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:18 am

Heater wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:25 am
Yes, I was wondering what happened.

Back in the old days there was a huge and complicated configuration file for X. I recall struggling with it many times. But in there you could configure pretty much any detail of what ever monitor/graphics you had, what with it's "mode lines" and whatever it was. I forget exactly.
Most of that is now controlled via xrandr, which also supports adding new modes should you feel the need.
Getting the appropriate configuration from the firmware into those config files is non-trivial, mainly as they live in the ext4 partition (which may not have been expanded on first boot), and the firmware only looks at the FAT /boot partition (I don't believe it even has an ext4 driver).
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
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Heater
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:29 am

6by9,
Getting the appropriate configuration from the firmware into those config files is non-trivial, mainly as they live in the ext4 partition (which may not have been expanded on first boot), and the firmware only looks at the FAT /boot partition (I don't believe it even has an ext4 driver).
Non-trivial but doable I presume.

One can easily hack on ext4 partitions from Windows using Linux File Systems for Windows: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/ or from another Linux machine.

What would be the procedure?
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:31 am

6by9 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:15 am
I've yet to come across a decent editor for Linux.
For minor changes to smallish files this is often a nice workaround - vi as hex editor:

`:%!xxd` to switch into hex mode (without the ` of course)
When you're done hit escape again and type:
`:%!xxd -r` to exit from hex mode.

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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:54 am

Heater wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:29 am
Non-trivial but doable I presume.

One can easily hack on ext4 partitions from Windows using Linux File Systems for Windows: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/ or from another Linux machine.

What would be the procedure?
I guess you'd need something like the magic done to enable SSH via the ssh file in /boot, or copying the wpa_supplicant.conf file across. Adding ext4 support to the firmware is a non-starter.

The firmware adds the mode to /proc/cmdline as

Code: Select all

video=HDMI-A-1:[email protected],margin_left=0,margin_right=0,margin_top=0,margin_bottom=0 video=HDMI-A-2:[email protected],margin_left=0,margin_right=0,margin_top=0,margin_bottom=0
or similar.

Currently the Screen Configuration tool is writing the config to /usr/share/dispsetup.sh, with something like

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
if grep -q okay /proc/device-tree/soc/[email protected]/status 2> /dev/null || grep -q okay /proc/device-tree/soc/[email protected]/status 2> /dev/null ; then
if xrandr --output HDMI-2 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --rate 25.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --dryrun ; then 
xrandr --output HDMI-2 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --rate 25.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal
fi
fi
exit 0
so something similar could be written to pick up the resolution part from /proc/cmdline.
It's certainly not something on my list of things worth investigating, and I don't think anyone else here is likely to be looking into it either.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

6by9
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:57 am

piglet wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:31 am
6by9 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:15 am
I've yet to come across a decent editor for Linux.
For minor changes to smallish files this is often a nice workaround - vi as hex editor:

`:%!xxd` to switch into hex mode (without the ` of course)
When you're done hit escape again and type:
`:%!xxd -r` to exit from hex mode.
It's not a simple way to add in a custom set of detailed timings though.
I've been through these hoops manually editing EDIDs for the HDMI to CSI2 bridge chips, and amending the simple list of VICs (standard modes) that are supported. You need to manually parse the EDID to find the list in the first place, and then adding entries will also require adjusting the count of entries, and pointers to later on in the structure.
Adding or removing detailed timings is worse than that.
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clicky
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am

6by9 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:54 am
Adding ext4 support to the firmware is a non-starter.
Nor makes any sense as ext4 might end up being some other fs type easily, while making /boot fixed to vfat is the nicest, the lowest common denominator...

andrum99
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:58 am

6by9 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:15 am
andrum99 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:29 am
6by9 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:18 pm

The firmware already tries to do that to push the kernel to choose the same mode as the firmware, as that would then match any hdmi_mode/group parameters in config.txt. However that only applies to the console - X ignores it totally.
It seems there's an override in DRM to let you pass in an EDID file instead of probing the display - just like there is in the Pi VC4 firmware. You can actually create a "synthetic" EDID with just the mode(s) you are after. I can't find a way to specify the desired mode directly for some reason: if there isn't one then there definitely should be - it *was* possible pre-DRM.
Adding hdmi_edd_file=1 (plus potentially hdmi_edid_filename=foo.dat) to config.txt will also override the EDID that DRM sees through vc4-fkms-v3d. It's the way I've been debugging EDID issues throughout.
Using the DRM override requires messing with initramfs to make it available before the filing system is necessarily up and running, which is significantly more complicated.

Editing EDID files is also not the most trivial of things to do. I've yet to come across a decent editor for Linux.
There's a tool called modeline2edid that claims to let you specify just the mode you want in an otherwise blank EDID. I'm guessing it adds whatever else is required for DRM to configure the screen.

andrum99
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:24 pm

6by9 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:54 am
Heater wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:29 am
Non-trivial but doable I presume.

One can easily hack on ext4 partitions from Windows using Linux File Systems for Windows: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/ or from another Linux machine.

What would be the procedure?
I guess you'd need something like the magic done to enable SSH via the ssh file in /boot, or copying the wpa_supplicant.conf file across. Adding ext4 support to the firmware is a non-starter.

The firmware adds the mode to /proc/cmdline as

Code: Select all

video=HDMI-A-1:[email protected],margin_left=0,margin_right=0,margin_top=0,margin_bottom=0 video=HDMI-A-2:[email protected],margin_left=0,margin_right=0,margin_top=0,margin_bottom=0
or similar.

Currently the Screen Configuration tool is writing the config to /usr/share/dispsetup.sh, with something like

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
if grep -q okay /proc/device-tree/soc/[email protected]/status 2> /dev/null || grep -q okay /proc/device-tree/soc/[email protected]/status 2> /dev/null ; then
if xrandr --output HDMI-2 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --rate 25.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --dryrun ; then 
xrandr --output HDMI-2 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --rate 25.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal
fi
fi
exit 0
so something similar could be written to pick up the resolution part from /proc/cmdline.
It's certainly not something on my list of things worth investigating, and I don't think anyone else here is likely to be looking into it either.
Or perhaps some glue to sync the console and X video config. Like just a big button that says "whatever the console's doing, X do the same."

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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:39 pm

andrum99 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:24 pm
6by9 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:54 am
Heater wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:29 am
Non-trivial but doable I presume.

One can easily hack on ext4 partitions from Windows using Linux File Systems for Windows: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/ or from another Linux machine.

What would be the procedure?
I guess you'd need something like the magic done to enable SSH via the ssh file in /boot, or copying the wpa_supplicant.conf file across. Adding ext4 support to the firmware is a non-starter.

The firmware adds the mode to /proc/cmdline as

Code: Select all

video=HDMI-A-1:[email protected],margin_left=0,margin_right=0,margin_top=0,margin_bottom=0 video=HDMI-A-2:[email protected],margin_left=0,margin_right=0,margin_top=0,margin_bottom=0
or similar.

Currently the Screen Configuration tool is writing the config to /usr/share/dispsetup.sh, with something like

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
if grep -q okay /proc/device-tree/soc/[email protected]/status 2> /dev/null || grep -q okay /proc/device-tree/soc/[email protected]/status 2> /dev/null ; then
if xrandr --output HDMI-2 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --rate 25.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --dryrun ; then 
xrandr --output HDMI-2 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 60.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --rate 25.00 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal
fi
fi
exit 0
so something similar could be written to pick up the resolution part from /proc/cmdline.
It's certainly not something on my list of things worth investigating, and I don't think anyone else here is likely to be looking into it either.
Or perhaps some glue to sync the console and X video config. Like just a big button that says "whatever the console's doing, X do the same."
Easier said than done....we are always open to pull requests with code changes for stuff like this!
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andrum99
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:41 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:39 pm
andrum99 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:24 pm

Or perhaps some glue to sync the console and X video config. Like just a big button that says "whatever the console's doing, X do the same."
Easier said than done....we are always open to pull requests with code changes for stuff like this!
Indeed. A quick and dirty solution would be a bash script you could put in the X desktop autorun that parsed the video= params and called xrandr with whatever it finds. Which isn't really any more quick and dirty that what we're already doing in the case where the user has run Screen Configuration Tool. Volunteers welcome :D

Does the Pi Screen Configuration Tool source live on github somewhere? I can't find it. It's based on arandr isn't it? (Not in github.com/raspberrypi nor github.com/raspberrypi-ui that I can see).

PaultheElder
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:34 pm

Hello,

In a recent post relating to the Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support Jamesh wrote:

Completely native USB boot is not yet supported (it will be but not for some months), but it's easy enough to have a readonly boot SD card, and then redirect everything to the SSD.

I'd be very happy with such a fix, and have searched for the simplest way to approach this in order to create a semi-permanent solution for a Pi4 desktop PC (my Pi3+ with SSD is already a great success). There seems to be a variety of suggestions out there. Would it be possible for a straightforward 'officially recommended' method to be posted which would, no doubt, help many folk make the very best of the 'early release' of the Pi4?
Have I missed something already on the forum? If so, please point me to it and accept my appologies.

Kendek
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:19 pm

PaultheElder wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:34 pm
Would it be possible for a straightforward 'officially recommended' method to be posted which would, no doubt, help many folk make the very best of the 'early release' of the Pi4?
The official .img file has two partitions, boot and rootfs. You just need to copy this second partition or contents of the filesystem to the external storage device, and need to edit the cmdline.txt and the fstab. Maybe an official guide in the documentation would be good for the beginners.

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B.Goode
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:02 pm

PaultheElder wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:34 pm
Hello,

In a recent post relating to the Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support Jamesh wrote:

Completely native USB boot is not yet supported (it will be but not for some months), but it's easy enough to have a readonly boot SD card, and then redirect everything to the SSD.

I'd be very happy with such a fix, and have searched for the simplest way to approach this in order to create a semi-permanent solution for a Pi4 desktop PC (my Pi3+ with SSD is already a great success). There seems to be a variety of suggestions out there. Would it be possible for a straightforward 'officially recommended' method to be posted which would, no doubt, help many folk make the very best of the 'early release' of the Pi4?
Have I missed something already on the forum? If so, please point me to it and accept my appologies.


The NOOBS Installer can be used to implement this. And since the NOOBS Installer is an 'official' Raspberry Pi solution, perhaps that ticks the box?

andrum99
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:15 am

B.Goode wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:02 pm
PaultheElder wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:34 pm
Hello,

In a recent post relating to the Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support Jamesh wrote:

Completely native USB boot is not yet supported (it will be but not for some months), but it's easy enough to have a readonly boot SD card, and then redirect everything to the SSD.

I'd be very happy with such a fix, and have searched for the simplest way to approach this in order to create a semi-permanent solution for a Pi4 desktop PC (my Pi3+ with SSD is already a great success). There seems to be a variety of suggestions out there. Would it be possible for a straightforward 'officially recommended' method to be posted which would, no doubt, help many folk make the very best of the 'early release' of the Pi4?
Have I missed something already on the forum? If so, please point me to it and accept my appologies.


The NOOBS Installer can be used to implement this. And since the NOOBS Installer is an 'official' Raspberry Pi solution, perhaps that ticks the box?
It was stated a couple of years ago that there were no plans to add new features to NOOBS. This may change with Pi 4 since this will probably eventually be capable of reliable and consistent USB mass storage boot from pretty any hard disk, SSD or memory stick. That then opens up the possibility of being able to direct inexperienced users towards a choice of install destination - SD card or whatever USB device the user wants to use.

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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:20 am

It was stated a couple of years ago that there were no plans to add new features to NOOBS. This may change with Pi 4


The NOOBS Installer v3.2 can implement 'boot from microSD, system on usb mass storage' NOW: no changes to the released version of the Installer are required.

andrum99
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:23 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:20 am
It was stated a couple of years ago that there were no plans to add new features to NOOBS. This may change with Pi 4


The NOOBS Installer v3.2 can implement 'boot from microSD, system on usb mass storage' NOW: no changes to the released version of the Installer are required.
Oooh - interesting - I didn't know that. So how do you select the installation target for the operating system - does NOOBS prompt you to choose a destination for the install?

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B.Goode
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:33 pm

andrum99 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:23 pm
B.Goode wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:20 am
It was stated a couple of years ago that there were no plans to add new features to NOOBS. This may change with Pi 4


The NOOBS Installer v3.2 can implement 'boot from microSD, system on usb mass storage' NOW: no changes to the released version of the Installer are required.
Oooh - interesting - I didn't know that. So how do you select the installation target for the operating system - does NOOBS prompt you to choose a destination for the install?

It was a surprise to me too when I saw it mentioned somewhere in these forums a few weeks ago.

I was sceptical. But I tried it. And it Just Works.


Connect a target usb mass storage device to the powered-off RPi board. Prepare a standard NOOBS Installer microSD card. Insert the NOBS card into the RPi and apply power as usual. When the NOOBS Recovery Console screen appears there will be a device selection option towards the bottom of the screen where you can choose the target device for installation. Change it to the usb mass storage. Select an OS to install, and then click Install as usual. That's it.

Lots of words there, but the only thing 'different' is noticing the target device option and changing it as appropriate.

pagenotfound
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Re: Current State of Raspberry Pi 4 Software and Hardware Support

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:31 am

6by9 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:36 pm
. The main open one is over 1366x768 resolutions

TV sets with this resolution are fairly cheap. I thought they were a good solution to watch 1280x720 videos (nearly) full screen without having to scale them on an old Pi. So this is not a good idea after all?

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