DavidInvenio
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Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:02 am

Specs for the 4 include the phrase "networked AI core" - Can anyone explain to me exactly what that is? I've been a software engineer for 35 years, I like to think I'm not a moron and I have a fair bit of experience with the Pi 3B. And I thought I knew what "AI" meant. Can someone enlighten me?

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topguy
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Location: Trondheim, Norway

Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:41 am

Which specs ? where did you see this ?

I found it just in the original 24/6 tweet..
Announcing #RaspberryPi4: your tiny, dual-display, desktop computer…and robot brains, smart home hub, media centre, networked AI core, factory controller, and much more:
The dont list it as a feature or "spec" , they list it as something the Pi can "become".

DavidInvenio
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:25 am

Just FYI it's on the MAIN PAGE for the product
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 4-model-b/
and it definitely doesn't even come CLOSE to implying that "you MAY be able to DO THIS and THAT with our board".
But all that being said - I know a tad about AI, not to mention a fair bit about hardware, software and related terminologies.
And "networked AI core" - sorry - but I've never heard of such a thing.

Smells to me like more rotted marketing soul-less drones.
Like "3D" toothpaste (thank you Crest).

What a world.

It's a fine product on it's own - no need for the devious dishonesty.

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jbeale
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:55 am

Cut and pasted from your link:

"Your tiny, dual-display, desktop computer …and robot brains, smart home hub, media centre, networked AI core, factory controller, and much more"

What that says to me is that *with the right software* it can do these things- as of course could any other SBC, with varying degrees of efficiency. Without the right software, it's not much use as a desktop computer either. You could also paraphrase the concept list as "...and the sky's the limit" but that's a bit overused- at least they do make some specific suggestions.

"networked AI core" is not specifically familiar to me, but I get the implication it has networking and it has enough memory and speed to run deep learning models of some useful size, thereby forming the core of some kind of embedded machine learning application.

Heater
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:40 am

Very obviously "networked AI core" is a reference to using the Pi with AI products and projects that have been available for some years now:

https://medium.com/berrynet/run-object- ... f43609bc85

https://medium.com/berrynet/which-ai-ki ... aea8bfbe33

We've even had a forum subsection here dedicated to such things for ages:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=114
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:56 am

Well Alexa needs to be updated for Pi4, it does not work yet.
Still based on Stretch?
https://github.com/alexa/avs-device-sdk

I have no idea what hardware is in those smart home hubs.
https://www.openhab.org/
https://smarthome.university/home-assis ... assistant/
But the Pi4 is probably now over the line in the capability department.

So do you buy a "Smart Home" setup that could be hacked or make your own with Pi's?
Anyone could have an Ironman JARVIS?

I have compiled ARM's Compute Library on 3's and 4's.
Still lots of other things like TensorFlow, Caffe, Leaf etc to try.
Some of these had issues with the older Pi's but just compile now.
Will full TensorFlow 2.0 work as well as Lite?
TensorFlow is tested and supported on the following 64-bit systems:
64 bit only?

Computer Vision now has more power, enough to do more complex stuff locally?
AL/MM/NN/CV etc software libraries all get a boost and are much closer to mainstream Linux.

Networked AI is where the models are trained somewhere else on big machines then run locally.
10,000 images is normal for training to teach a computer the difference between a cat and dog.
Once that model is learned then it could run on a local Pi.
Think of it as training the brains neurons to tell cats and dogs apart.
Once that "Neural network" has learned that "brain" can be copied to a local Pi.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

ejolson
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:13 pm

DavidInvenio wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:02 am
Specs for the 4 include the phrase "networked AI core" - Can anyone explain to me exactly what that is? I've been a software engineer for 35 years, I like to think I'm not a moron and I have a fair bit of experience with the Pi 3B. And I thought I knew what "AI" meant. Can someone enlighten me?
In my opinion AI core means the system has hardware support for float16 and or the bfloat16 data types, preferably in the form of vector instructions or attached vector-processing unit.

Does the VC6 support float16? If so, then advertising the Pi can function as an AI core seems fine; if not, then it would be better to change the phrase

"Your tiny, dual-display, desktop computer… and robot brains, smart home hub, media centre, networked AI core, factory controller, and much more"

to

"Your tiny, dual-display, desktop computer… and robot brains, smart home hub, media centre, STEM learning environment, and much more"

Joking aside, it would definitely be nice to see a code example that uses the VC6 GPU to run a neural network model on the Raspberry Pi 4B.

jdb
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:31 pm

jbeale wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:55 am

"networked AI core" is not specifically familiar to me, but I get the implication it has networking and it has enough memory and speed to run deep learning models of some useful size, thereby forming the core of some kind of embedded machine learning application.
^this

https://www.hackster.io/news/benchmarki ... 8db9304ce4

Classifiers without hardware acceleration run reasonably on a Pi 4, and with a USB3 accelerator are useable at video framerates.
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

lurk101
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:40 pm

Overblown claims in marketing material should not surprise. Everyone does it. Take them with a grain of salt.

ejolson
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:48 pm

jdb wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:31 pm
jbeale wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:55 am

"networked AI core" is not specifically familiar to me, but I get the implication it has networking and it has enough memory and speed to run deep learning models of some useful size, thereby forming the core of some kind of embedded machine learning application.
^this

https://www.hackster.io/news/benchmarki ... 8db9304ce4

Classifiers without hardware acceleration run reasonably on a Pi 4, and with a USB3 accelerator are useable at video framerates.
That would be a general CPU core that happens to be fast enough to run some pretrained AI models. How about just adding "STEM learning environment" to the list of features. I think it is important to keep the educational uses of the Pi in focus as that is the unfilled niche which distinguishes it from the others.

lurk101
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:11 pm

ejolson wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:48 pm
jdb wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:31 pm
jbeale wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:55 am

"networked AI core" is not specifically familiar to me, but I get the implication it has networking and it has enough memory and speed to run deep learning models of some useful size, thereby forming the core of some kind of embedded machine learning application.
^this

https://www.hackster.io/news/benchmarki ... 8db9304ce4

Classifiers without hardware acceleration run reasonably on a Pi 4, and with a USB3 accelerator are useable at video framerates.
That would be a general CPU core that happens to be fast enough to run some pretrained AI models. How about just adding "STEM learning environment" to the list of features. I think it is important to keep the educational uses of the Pi in focus as that is the unfilled niche which distinguishes it from the others.
I think we agree that the Pi4 is NOT an efficient AI engine, but I wonder what proportion of Pi sales go to STEM education?

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clicky
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:09 am

This might be seen a slightly tangential - but I am sure I've (on one of my computer, at some point in last 1.5 years) bookmarked a link to experimental OpenCL (or similar) github(? - again or similar - but I have vague memory it is github) project. Also, again my memory(!), it was something to do with GPU on Pi3 (or less) and mentioning Pi4 (or otherway round).

Please - if anyone can remember - can we have it posted here?

Vague description is:

OpenCL or similar standard partially (or fully?) implemented for Pi3 and/or Pi4...

And for me - that's more than just 'marketing' trick. It is real stuff I always wanted to have more time to play with! :)

- - - -
Edit: and that's, in my mind, far more 'hard core' than OpenCV which is already quite close to the subject itself...

crossbar
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:26 pm

clicky wrote:OpenCL or similar standard partially (or fully?) implemented for Pi3 and/or Pi4.

(a) Regarding Pi3/Pi2/pi-zero (VC4) :
(1) https://github.com/doe300/VC4CL (exerimental OpenCL 1.2)
(2) https://github.com/doe300/VC4CL/tree/OpenCL30 (experimental OpenCL 3.0)
doe300 - from Germany, Nuernberg ?? - is the main (and to my knowlage the only) developer.

see also :
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=194952

(b) Regarding Pi4 (VC6) :
Doe to lack of *public* documentation you have to wait some months.
ejolson wrote:Does the VC6 support float16?
Yes, it does support packed float16.

mic_s
.

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clicky
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:37 pm

Thanks! :) That's definitively worth keeping an eye on.

My current daydream (regarding above) is to have equivalent of Nvidia GPU for k8s for Pi4.

hippy
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Location: UK

Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:03 pm

DavidInvenio wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:02 am
Specs for the 4 include the phrase "networked AI core" - Can anyone explain to me exactly what that is?
I presumed that meant the Pi could be used with Edge / TensorFlow / AI stuff, Call that "AI core", and, as the Pi can be networked, voila; "networked AI core".

PR is mostly buzzword bingo.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Pi4 "networked AI core"?

Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:54 am

https://github.com/Idein/py-videocore6
Also have a look at the VC6 OpenGL Compute Shaders.
These are supposed to work in OpenGL3.1 now.
Have not seen many examples of compute shaders except things like this.
https://developer.arm.com/solutions/gra ... aders-flag
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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