jamesh
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:20 am

OK, good point about 32bit, so systemd is now off topic for this thread. Start a new one in Off Topic to complain about something that works.
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clicky
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:50 am

jamesh wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:20 am
OK, good point about 32bit, so systemd is now off topic for this thread. Start a new one in Off Topic to complain about something that works.
Do not envy you (for moderating this forum). It is odd nobody mentioned USB booting in conjunction with 32/64bin apps, yet. :roll:

sal55
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:46 am

jamesh wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:53 pm
It's been well publicised for some years that Raspbian is 32bit. This is for a number of reason - firstly backwards compatibility with previous models and the Pi0. We only need one distro and it runs on all devices.
I didn't know this literally meant one binary distribution that could work on any Pi (I thought every board had somewhat different hardware specs and addresses).

But I tried my 32-bit Raspian from RPi4 on my RPi1, after failing to find any specific download for it, on the off-chance it might do something, and it worked fine! It also handily came with all the programs and files I'd installed on it.

That's very impressive.

jamesh
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:52 am

sal55 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:46 am
jamesh wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:53 pm
It's been well publicised for some years that Raspbian is 32bit. This is for a number of reason - firstly backwards compatibility with previous models and the Pi0. We only need one distro and it runs on all devices.
I didn't know this literally meant one binary distribution that could work on any Pi (I thought every board had somewhat different hardware specs and addresses).

But I tried my 32-bit Raspian from RPi4 on my RPi1, after failing to find any specific download for it, on the off-chance it might do something, and it worked fine! It also handily came with all the programs and files I'd installed on it.

That's very impressive.
There are some specific binaries - for example there are two kernel binaries (three if you enable 64bit), and the device tree system has specific entries for each Pi (which is what device tree was designed for!) to account for HW differences. But the aim of all this IS to ensure the same SD card/image will work in all models. Which is why we only have one image per distro (e.g. Full, Lite etc) on the downloads page.
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DougieLawson
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:15 pm

So the three binaries are:

kernel7.img kernel7l.img kernel8.img kernel.img


Shome mishtake shurely.
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:24 pm

clicky wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:50 am
jamesh wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:20 am
OK, good point about 32bit, so systemd is now off topic for this thread. Start a new one in Off Topic to complain about something that works.
Do not envy you (for moderating this forum). It is odd nobody mentioned USB booting in conjunction with 32/64bin apps, yet. :roll:
Probably because 32 vs 64 bit is irrelevant to the extra boot modes. (And there is always the chance that someone will pop up to say, "No it's not, it's a hippopotamus!")

oicfar
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:08 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:28 pm
sal55 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:06 pm
AFAIK a 64-bit OS still runs 32-bit applications, so it shouldn't break backwards compatibility.
Wrong sort of backwards compatibility. We need the OS to work on ALL version of the Pi, including the ones with 32bit cores. A 64 bit kernel will not run on a 32 bit core.

64 bit is coming. Meanwhile, 32 bit works for the vast majority of users. Like, 99.99999% of them.
Can you tell how far you are with the 64bit?

I have 2x Pi 3 B+ and 8* Pi 4 4 GB at home. ;) Only fot testing some technologies. At the moment I run PostgreSQL, Open-MPI, Slurm, Docker, some Java Applications, ... on my infrastructure. I'm using Raspbian Buster Lite and happy with this. But 64bit will be good, cause at the moment I can't install some tools.

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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:57 pm

oicfar wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:08 pm
Can you tell how far you are with the 64bit?
If you want to play with a proof-of-concept, then the thread at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 6&t=254027 is well worth a look.
I have 2x Pi 3 B+ and 8* Pi 4 4 GB at home. ;) Only fot testing some technologies.
Blimey. I thought my 2xPi 1, 2xPi 2, 2xPi 3, and 1xPi 4 (2GB) were excessive...

oicfar
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:29 pm

dickon wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:57 pm
oicfar wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:08 pm
Can you tell how far you are with the 64bit?
If you want to play with a proof-of-concept, then the thread at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 6&t=254027 is well worth a look.
I can switch one of my Pi 4 for testing.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:37 pm

dickon wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:57 pm
oicfar wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:08 pm
Can you tell how far you are with the 64bit?
If you want to play with a proof-of-concept, then the thread at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 6&t=254027 is well worth a look.
I have 2x Pi 3 B+ and 8* Pi 4 4 GB at home. ;) Only fot testing some technologies.
Blimey. I thought my 2xPi 1, 2xPi 2, 2xPi 3, and 1xPi 4 (2GB) were excessive...
Not even close... I've lost count.

Eirikur
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:04 am

Use Ubuntu Server 64-bit and install what you want from there. Burn the 64-bit AARCH64 image with Pi3 in the name to an SDcard. Log in on the console (there is no windowing system) and install mate-desktop-environment. Be happy. Works for me.

On the Pi 4GB, until an update release, you must set:
total_mem=3072
in the file:
/boot/firmware/usercfg.txt
or USB doesn't work. The fix is understood, but Ubuntu hasn't tested and released it. This workaround works fine for me.

This gives you a solid 64-bit system that has more installable software than Raspbian does. You might have some work to do to get special hardware like GPIO and camera working. That stuff is just ordinary Open Source software, it just comes preinstalled on Raspbian. I don't recommend this for kids who are just trying to get an LED blinking because you will need to install libraries for that and understand things at that level.

For an adult wanting to run and build 64-bit programs, this is a good way to go.

The Pi Foundation is there for the kids. I support them. People like me are here for people like you.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: RPI4: Why is everything still 32-bit?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:09 am

Not even close... I've lost count.
I stopped counting at 20, that was years ago :oops:

Been using Gentoo64 for over a year.
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