macrutan
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Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:34 pm

As I was making a few last minute search queries online today I saw that Amazon.com suggested that I purchase a Raspberry Pi for $65. I followed the link and did more research to find that the lowest price for a Raspberry Pi on Amazon from over 15 resellers was $51.99 plus over $11.00 for shipping.

I posted a review that will likely be blocked by Amazon alerting consumers to go to raspberrypi.org to get official reseller information.

If you have a chance, check Amazon UK and elsewhere for such gouging and let's sort this out. To me it's criminal.

jamesh
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:48 pm

Although perhaps slightly immoral, it's certainly not criminal. There is no law against buying something then selling it on at a higher price (unless you count software, music etc, but that is even more immoral!). After all, that's what shops do.

However, I would recommend people deal with people who make sensible mark-ups rather than the excessive ones you have found on Amazon. There are many places where you can buy them much cheaper, or go to the horses mouth and buy from Farnell or RS.
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joan
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:50 pm

amazon.co.uk seem to sell at £35. More than $35 but not a rip-off. It is not my fault or your fault if people are stupid.

macrutan
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:02 pm

Jamesh,
My use of the term criminal was intentionally overstated for dramatic effect! I appreciate your editorial insight and will settle for immoral. I really just want to raise awareness and spread the word to keep a watch on this sort of thing.

Cheers!

Mac

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:25 pm

macrutan wrote:Jamesh,
My use of the term criminal was intentionally overstated for dramatic effect! I appreciate your editorial insight and will settle for immoral. I really just want to raise awareness and spread the word to keep a watch on this sort of thing.

Cheers!

Mac
In the UK accusing someone of criminal behaviour in public print is libel, and could result in legal action. And websites on which such stuff appears can also get in to trouble I believe, so we have to be careful!
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pygmy_giant
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:32 pm

If you put the words 'I think' in front of any accusations then that should cover you.

Personally, 'I think' the UK's libel/defamation laws are designed to serve the interests of the wealthy who can afford to sue against those of the common man who can't.

'I think' this is obvious as it is obvious that anything I say is obviously what 'I think', and not necessarily true.

And if it is true but I can't prove it, that does not stop it being true and possibly in the public interest for me to say it, regardless of whether it defames someone.

In the UK someone who speaks out against corruption or immoral behaviour that they have experienced risks being banckrupted by a defamation law suit as defamation is the only area of law where someone is treated as being guilty until proven innocent.

This can be justified by the argument that in effect one person is prosecuting another in the 'court of public opinon' by making allegations and so the burden of proof should naturally rest on them.

In reality only corporations and public bodies and excptionally wealthy individuals can afford to bring a defamation case and so the law does not apply evenly.
Last edited by pygmy_giant on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:42 pm

It could be argued that anything more than what 50% of the people find immoral could be considered down right immoral. But thinking the government is moral enough to do anything about it is perhaps an immoral consideration of priorities, masters and forge proof paper issued by some banker of perhaps questionable metal.
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:51 pm

I think you are saying that it is 'immoral' to trust authority unquestioningly - in which caseI agree.

But this has nothing to do with the Raspberry Pi, so I'll step down off my soap box and shut up.

fozzy bear
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:53 am

Now this is interesting as I have been observing this kind of activity over at ebay ( USA and Australia ) for a while [ it must be happening globally though]. This begs the question that if the gouging and scalping keeps going on ( and the foundation has no real control over this ) then the markets are going to start thinking, hey we don't have to abide by the foundations' artificial price point for the Pi ( yes it is already happening ).

Since when has competition ( a dynamic principle of global and free markets )
been a bad thing ? I see it as a healthy thing.
Why ? Because even though some Pi units will be sold at higher prices
this will get the product out there so more people will see Pis
and more people will buy more Pis etc..

What is so wrong with people making some money with the Pi ?
It is only going to stimulate more interest in the product.
I think this will actually drive the future of the development of the Pi
( if that's what the foundation and Pi users want to see ).
If people keep the price say under around $ 70.00
then you are still getting a small, powerfull and cheap
system ( compared to traditional systems ).

In fact if the inital price point was $70.00 I would
still buy one for the same reasons.

I think the reality is that the foundation at some point in the future will need to reconsider it's position on the price point if it wants the Pi phenomenon to grow even further. I know many will disagree and will say this approach
violates the spirit of the original purpose of the Pi and it's price point policy.
I disagree. I think in the final analysis this change can only be good for
everyone.

People are already making money off the Pi
and we CAN'T stop this ( it is not illegal to onsell this way as
jamesh I think pointed out ) so why not take advantage of the situation ?

Buy a raspberry Pi from RS ? I know they are a legit producer/distributor
but my own horse tells me "Not on your Nelly" or at least until such time as
RS begins to at least lift it's game ( a little ? ).
RS Components in Australia are quoting 3 to 5 weeks delivery
for the R Pi B v2. I simply don't understand this when
Farnell/Element 14 in Australia has plenty of stock and is delivering
same or next day ?

I will continue to deal with RS Components over their trade counter as I have always done. Until people here tell me that things have changed
I will NOT buy anything online from RS Components.

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:40 am

Or try looking at it another way.

If you think that by me saying ,"why not take advantage of the situation ?"
and you think I mean, "If you can't beat em join em !"
then you are not looking at it the same way I am as this is not what I mean.
( and no I don't expect people to think the same way I do ).

I mean why not take the situation as it stands [ we can't change it ]
and turn it to good use
( for the future productive use/development of the Pi and it's users
[ hopefully the foundation will benefit as well]).

fozzy

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:46 am

fozzy bear wrote:Now this is interesting as I have been observing this kind of activity over at ebay ( USA and Australia ) for a while [ it must be happening globally though]. This begs the question that if the gouging and scalping keeps going on ( and the foundation has no real control over this ) then the markets are going to start thinking, hey we don't have to abide by the foundations' artificial price point for the Pi ( yes it is already happening ).
What stops the primary distributors from raising prices is the contract they signed with the Foundation. They violate the contract, they lose the right to manufacture and distribute. Resellers..nothing to be done there, but it is always possible to let people know that, if you go to the official distributors, the price is $35 for a Model B.
Since when has competition ( a dynamic principle of global and free markets )
been a bad thing ? I see it as a healthy thing.
Why ? Because even though some Pi units will be sold at higher prices
this will get the product out there so more people will see Pis
and more people will buy more Pis etc..
I agree that--in general competition is good. That's why there is no real complaint with the various "Pi-like" devices out there, whether a mere proposal or actual hardware you can buy.
What is so wrong with people making some money with the Pi ?
Nothing whatsoever. Indeed, the Foundation is making a little bit off the Pi, as are the contracted distributors. The distributors would probably like to make more, but they are making a profit. The Foundation is a charity, but the distributors are not. (I actually think the Foundation should probably be making more off the Pi than they are...the people running to Foundation took a sizable personal risk and I think they should get some compensation for that.)
It is only going to stimulate more interest in the product.
That's arguable.
I think this will actually drive the future of the development of the Pi
( if that's what the foundation and Pi users want to see ).
If people keep the price say under around $ 70.00
then you are still getting a small, powerfull and cheap
system ( compared to traditional systems ).

In fact if the inital price point was $70.00 I would
still buy one for the same reasons.
$70 is okay...it you only need one or two for projects. I have a current use for about 12...and at $70 each, that would be a problem. When you get to the proposal to fill a classroom with the...say 20 to 30 Pis times however many concurrent classes a given school will have running times the number of schools in a district... Well, you get the idea. As Sen. Dirksen once said, "a billion here, a billion there...pretty soon you're talking real money."
I think the reality is that the foundation at some point in the future will need to reconsider it's position on the price point if it wants the Pi phenomenon to grow even further. I know many will disagree and will say this approach
violates the spirit of the original purpose of the Pi and it's price point policy.
I disagree. I think in the final analysis this change can only be good for
everyone.
I disagree. As time goes on it should be easier to maintain the price point. The prices of the chips may go down, particularly as volume ramps up and time passes. For the actual intended purposes, the Pi is "powerful enough". There are a lot of people posting on these forums that learned to program on far less capable hardware (I learned my first programming languages before microcomputers even existed on a machine with roughly the equivalent of 40KB of memory and disk drive that held no more than 4MB).

If there is a market for a more expensive, more capable machine (and such a market almost certainly exists), then someone can fill that market, but it doesn't mean the Foundation needs to. The mere existence of the Pi appears to have created a newly defined computer market: the under $50 computer.
People are already making money off the Pi
and we CAN'T stop this ( it is not illegal to onsell this way as
jamesh I think pointed out ) so why not take advantage of the situation ?
People *are* making money off the Pi. Both directly as aftermarket resellers and original sales of add-ons and accessories. The Foundation is "taking advantage" of the situation by having created the core of an ecosystem and seeing to that cost of that core element doesn't rise merely because of demand. Anyone can go to the authorized distributors and get a Pi for $35. If those distributors are back ordered and the need is immediate, then the secondary market is out there. But at the end of the day, you can *always* order a Pi at the controlled price.
Buy a raspberry Pi from RS ? I know they are a legit producer/distributor
but my own horse tells me "Not on your Nelly" or at least until such time as
RS begins to at least lift it's game ( a little ? ).
RS Components in Australia are quoting 3 to 5 weeks delivery
for the R Pi B v2. I simply don't understand this when
Farnell/Element 14 in Australia has plenty of stock and is delivering
same or next day ?
I have 3 Pis ordered from RS or its US subsidiary. Yes, RS guessed wrong about the medium term demand and got caught short. RS got overwhelmed by the response. RS is working on clearing their backlog. RS still has a ways to go.

Farnell took the risk (and a risk it was) that the initial interest reflected the real demand. They made a better estimate of the actual demand. That's good. They've had back orders from time to time, too. Not as big or long a backlog as RS, but not perfect, either.
I will continue to deal with RS Components over their trade counter as I have always done. Until people here tell me that things have changed
I will NOT buy anything online from RS Components.
If that's your experience, then that's your experience. I have seen delays (I found it amusing to see them take over 2 months to deliver some Pi cases...I mean some simple injection molded plastic?), but nothing I couldn't live with. For my own projects, I have planned ahead because the initial ordering snafu showed that just buying Pis off the shelf was going to take quite a while. As a result, I have everything I need that isn't really an off the shelf item for a project with a hard execution date...specifically a convention for which I'm in charge of convention registration. That date can't be moved...so I ordered early and often and I have what I need.

But then, I *expect* things to go wrong at the worst possible time...

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:29 am

This is by far the most interesting conversation I've observed today and I really appreciate the relevance of each of the viewpoints. I didn't realize my post would stimulate such a controversy. I intended to raise awareness on the issue that a major Internet reseller (or in this case platform of various resellers) was charging nearly twice the suggested price for the Raspberry Pi. I am a proponent of good business practices and consumer awareness and understand that profiting is inherent in the equation. I also believe that most consumers understand this as well. However many consumers may not be aware of the vision and philosophy behind the Raspberry Pi product and brand. That relevant perspective is certainly being lost in the Amazon situation.

I’d also like to state that I support the vision of the Raspberry Pi Foundation and am working to raise awareness of its significance in the realm education. In turn, raising awareness regarding the value of the device is part of my personal mission. I am hoping that these forums are the place to discuss such matters and hope I haven’t upset the courts.

My personal thoughts with regard to prices in this market:

1) The Arduino and other microprocessor (MCU) components have established somewhat of a baseline for MCU costs from $18 - $35.00 US). I am considering this from the viewpoint of the buyer and not the seller. The price of the RP creates a very valuable product. This device has features beyond some of the other MCUs yet it falls in the same price range. For a developer or a student looking for a device to drive a project, this price point is a huge factor. There are and have been many other very capable MCUs in the $70 price range, but the price keeps them out of reach for a huge segment of the market. In short, a lot of people will do projects based on a $35 platform as opposed to the latter. So letting the Amazon resellers determine how they should capitalize is a bad idea, as they are uninformed about the potential market. They will in essence rebrand the RP as a $70 device. I believe that may have a negative effect.

The purpose of this post was to bring to light that fact that there is a gap in the understanding of the Raspberry Pi product and subsequent market with respect to the resellers on Amazon. It is not Amazon itself setting the high prices, it is the independent resellers doing so. They seem to be working within the bounds of their agreements and therefore it is all legitimate, but that doesn’t make it cool, and cool sells!

I’d also like to point out that many innovative (read as “cool”) resellers are adding only a few dollars to their cost of the RP and are working to build a much larger platform from which to grow. Adafruit for example is selling the RP for $39.95 as of this writing, only $4.95 more than Element14 in the US. From what I have observed SparkFun, Makers Shed, etc. were keeping the price similar to Adafruit. The Amazon resellers are the exception. Adafruit has been on the leading edge of support and training on the Raspberry Pi platform and by doing so is setting the bar for customer service. I hope other’s learn and follow their example.

On a personal level, I’ve been buying my RPs from Element 14 and peripherals from Adafruit. The Element14 service was slow with the initial order but has been much better now that the wheels are turning. They have also been great on the Linked in Forums!

I hope everyone appreciates my desire to share and my concerns for fairness. Sure it’s a dog eat dog situation out there in real world market, but just look at what the mindless greed approach to capitalism has brought to our civilization. Let’s improve upon it, think, communicate and speak out when necessary. Build something great, not just something that sells.

Note on the original post:
With regard to me being accusatory in my original post, I did state the following: "To me it's criminal." Despite my limited understanding of language and absolute lack of knowledge regarding UK law, I have declared a personal opinion on an Internet forum about a situation with Amazon US, not Amazon UK, so that should factor in as well. It's always good to know the lay of the land (and in this case the law of the land) on which one treads! In the future I'll be careful, but refuse to be intimidated. In any case I’m not worried about my relationship with Amazon. It’s in good standing. Plus I buy all of my Kindle edition Raspberry Pi books from them (at a really good price).

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:51 am

Just a note for pygmy_giant, you cannot be sued (for libel) for stating the truth. If it is the truth, it is not libel.
So unless what you print is privileged or restricted information, you can say whatever you like, as long as it is true. I think......

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:27 am

excollier wrote:Just a note for pygmy_giant, you cannot be sued (for libel) for stating the truth. If it is the truth, it is not libel.
So unless what you print is privileged or restricted information, you can say whatever you like, as long as it is true. I think......
Absolutely true. However, defending a court case is expensive, even if you are right.

Had I thought the OP had made a libellous statement, I would have deleted the post. As it was it wasn't an outright accusation, so it remained. Warnings never go amiss though!

Back to topic. As I said before, the Foundation can do NOTHING about the perfectly legitimate buying and reselling of the Raspi. All that can be done is ensure that as many people as possible know that the price SHOULD be $25/35 (+tax and P&P) from the main distributors.
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:31 am

I should add that had the Foundation tried to up the price to take advantage of the shortages, there would have been an outcry of Brobdinagian proportions, and that would have done GREAT harm to the Foundation and the whole concept. That price has been a mainstay of the whole project. To suddenly put short term gains against the long terms aspirations of the project would have been foolhardy in the extreme.

As to $50 or $70 devices...well, there's a market there which is being filled by other devices! It's a much smaller market though, probably less than half the size...
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:07 am

I think it is fair to point out you can buy a perfectly good micro usb charger/hdmi cable/etc for a few £ or $, or you could spend 10 times that if you buy the first one you see (and in many cases, you may even end up with the same item).

So, it happens. I guess if you don't want it to happen then make sure you recommend good places to get stuff from to the people you know.

People only bother selling things for a high price because people still buy them.
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Jim JKla
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:26 am

It may be worth noting that Maplins in the UK have put together a RaspberyPi kit they are selling at £74.99 it sounds like a huge markup but I did a price search and going to best sources I found it hard to match this price.

I can seriously reduce my costs by re-using kit I allready have but if you want an out of the box solution where all you add is a TV then it's hard to beat. It's now available over the counter at their shops and mail order and if you want to use it as a Chrismass present, you are not going to be trying to find a cable on the day when everywhere is shut.

The best way to stop the gouging is make everyone aware of what the price options are.

There will probably be better kits and other options when it comes to it, as it's not the only game in town I am still waiting for a Model "A" my partner took the hint and bought me an e-reader If the "A" is still not available come Easter I will probably buy one of the Maplin Kits until then my 256 model "B" is filling the bill nicely. ;)
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:29 am

While I share the OP concern I don't really have a problem with people selling stuff for a higher price. These days it takes seconds to price compare. If someone pays £100 for a Pi then they are an idiot. Or they can't be bothered checking.

It's just market forces. If I thought I could sell my 3 Pis for £60 each I would sell them tomorrow and replace them with 3 new ones from Farnell/CPC.

It is no different from a HiFi shop selling Gold Plated HDMI cables for £50 when they are the same as Lead Plated HDMI cables for £2. Or PCWorld selling tablet covers for £30 that you can buy on eBay for £6. Without even mentioning the accessories sold by a fruit-themed computer manufacturer.

It's the wonderful world of capitalism. If the seller is honest and provides what they advertise, then ultimately they can charge what they like. The people paying stupid prices for stuff on eBay would have wasted that money on something. There is no saving them.
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:54 pm

Education is a great thing. If it helps the foundation, Pi users and every body else to reach their goals then long live education as far as I am concerned.

However, I seriously doubt that educating people as to who the legitimate/contracted producers and distributors are and the price point so contracted for will have that much influence on the other resellers out there.
Some resellers may choose to do the right thing and others will simply continue with the cut throat competition ( that's life ).
I am not suggesting we should stop with the educational process.

I just doubt education will really have much impact at all with the way this thing is playing out right now and I think it will be the same in the forseeable future.

On the model A I guess it is cheaper and for some student ( or otherwise )
projects it will help cost wise but for me as it is less capable than the model B I can't see myself buying one.
A powered USB hub can always be added but are you then limitted
to USB/wifi Internet ( I guess a standard adsl modem/gateway will run off
USB as well ?) ? Not having an ethernet port means you have to network via a USB device that does have an ethernet port.

Treat the following as being purely Hypothetical

I have been told that a 512MB RAM upgrade is not essential
as the past ( B v1 256MB ) and present ( v2 ) performance of the
Pi with Rasbian etc is considered to be adequate as least for the
initial Pi target market etc ( education ) and I agree with this.
I have also been told that a RAM upgrade will not eliminate
certain inefficiencies that exist with the way that x windows
( as it is ) interacts with the SOCs GPU.
I guess for now we are stuck with this fact .

It has also been pointed out to me that there is no viable and available
1GB pin compatible RAM chip and it is not considered that this is likely to be developed/produced as people here don't think a big enough market exists to entice the fab manufacturers to invest and produce one.
I accept the basics on this but am not exactly convinced that future demand
would not ever justify or turn this situation around.

It has also been pointed out that any further upgrade to model B
would raise the unit price ( and we want to stick to $ 35.00
for reasons we are all familiar with ). Extra 512MB RAM would at least speed Linux a little where multi apps are running at once in LXDE for example. People have also said that they don't consider extra RAM
to be an essential ( or the most important upgrade ) upgrade.
I understand the reasons for this.

Lets say ( purely hypothetical ) that someone did produce a pin compatible
1GB RAM chip. If this was added to the B v2 has anyone any idea how this
would affect the unit price ?

Would adding the extra RAM raise the unit price by say an extra
$ 5.00 ? Would it be nearer an extra $ 10.00 ?
( so you end up with a new unit price of $ 40.00 or $ 45.00. )
So would an upgraded B v2 at 40 to 45 $ be OK for people here ?

Does/would this sound like a viable approach/option ?

Would adding the extra 512mb ram also add even more to the
R Pi B v2s unit price ( would it make it over $ 45.00 per unit ? ) ?
Where would we want to draw the line ( yes I realise probably at
$ 35.00 ) ?

Remember this is a purely hypothetical idea.
If the Pi is never upgraded in this way then I both accept the situation
and can live with it ( maybe we have no choice ).
My main argument is a 512MB upgrade will make the Pi
more popular ( maybe it's already popular enough ? )
and I think there will be a big enough market for any such
( hypothetical ) 1GB RAM chip ( others will debate this point ).

Has anyone done any guesswork on this at all ?
( not such a great investment in time etc ).

fozzy

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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:04 pm

macrutan wrote:This is by far the most interesting conversation I've observed today and I really appreciate the relevance of each of the viewpoints. I didn't realize my post would stimulate such a controversy. I intended to raise awareness on the issue that a major Internet reseller (or in this case platform of various resellers) was charging nearly twice the suggested price for the Raspberry Pi. I am a proponent of good business practices and consumer awareness and understand that profiting is inherent in the equation. I also believe that most consumers understand this as well. However many consumers may not be aware of the vision and philosophy behind the Raspberry Pi product and brand. That relevant perspective is certainly being lost in the Amazon situation.
The fundamental issue here is the difference between a product that is *sold* and a product that is *licensed*.

At least in the US (and, I presume in the UK and most other "Western" countries) there exists a principle of the right of "first sale". Basically it means that if you *buy* a product, it is yours to do whatever you wish with it...including reselling it. (There is, by the way, a case currently before the US Supreme Court in which there is a collision between certain import laws and first sale rules.)

If you *license* a product, the original seller can place restrictions on resale, including barring them completely. For examples, go read the EULA on common software. "Not transferrable" is a very common license restriction. UNcommon license restrictions are some of those in the GPL...including that you MUST make the source code readily available (that has tripped up some BIG companies, including Cisco) and you may not *charge* for the software itself, only for media and copying costs. Linux companies make their money on supporting their customers and *not* on the software itself as a result.

Now as for the Pi... Pis are *sold*, not licensed. Thus, anyone is free to resell them for whatever the market will bear. As the backlog of orders is cleared and Pis can be shipped as soon as they're ordered from the contracted distributors (RS & Farnell) and their subsidiaries (Allided, CPC, MCM, etc.), the reseller market will probably largely dry up. The companies producing and selling support goods--Adafruit is a good example--will probably continue to be able to charge a small premium because it will be worthwhile to order everything at once rather than ordering from two or three different vendors and paying shipping separately.

The high margin reseller market has a a very short window to work in. I'd give the high markup after market about another 6 months. After that, I'd expect that any stocks the resellers have left, they'll have to dump for very close to the official price and eat the costs of doing so.

fozzy bear
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:30 am

Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:30 pm

hello W. H. Heydt

W. H. Heydt wrote :

the reseller market will probably largely dry up.

end quote

The exact degree to which this may occur is debatable.
Just because the Pi is readily available does not mean that
the reseller market will dry up to any great degree
( the cut throat marketting will continue ).
The Pi is already readily available from Element 14
( and others ) and this has made no difference so far.

W. H. Heydt wrote :

The high margin reseller market has a a very short window to work in.
I'd give the high markup after market about another 6 months.
After that, I'd expect that any stocks the resellers have left,
they'll have to dump for very close to the official
price and eat the costs of doing so.

end quote

You may be right about this but I doubt it will happen.
i.e. why should the resellers take such a loss ?
( people will get a Pi by any means they can and as fast as they can'
[ like buying concert tickets off scalpers] and will continue to use resellers ).
I think we will have to wait and see just how this all pans out.

fozzy

?8O)}

From little things BIG things grow ( mighty oaks and even razzle berries ).

macrutan
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:51 pm

I think we are in the "initial conditions" stage (which is usually the most dynamic) of a complex situation regarding the market for this amazing device. The next stage will include the larger demands from schools and other organizations that will be larger than the individual market we are seeing now.

I run a RP user group in Orlando of which most of the members are developers or makers. I have seen very little awareness from the educational institution standpoint over here in the US so far, but it will wake up soon. It will also have a lag time while it is awakening. Once the RP project exemplars are mentally digested and schools wake up to smell the raspberries, the institutional orders will begin. I have no idea how that will evolve, but I anticipate "something wonderful is about to happen!"

Also, I propose that simply posting here is a step towards educating others to the importance of sticking to the core values of the Raspberry Pi foundation (price point especially). If we point newcomers to the proper resources and stimulate and inform each other, then we have contributed in a positive way. In my opinion, the foundation has done an amazing job of laying this whole scenario out and keeping it flexible enough to remain viable. I wish more organizations were as "organized."

Retweet the stories about the kids and teachers posted on the RP site, gift some RP's to educators that you know, and when you describe it, use the words the well designed phrases that the foundations has configured: "It's a credit-card sized computer...The Model A will cost $25 and the Model B $35."

pygmy_giant
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:49 am

Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:04 pm

excollier said:
Just a note for pygmy_giant, you cannot be sued (for libel) for stating the truth. If it is the truth, it is not libel.
So unless what you print is privileged or restricted information, you can say whatever you like, as long as it is true. I think......
My understanding is that neither libel nor slander are directly referred to in UK law but what is commonly understood to by those terms is covered by the Defamation Act 1952. There is the common law defence of 'justification' against prosecution under this act if you have 'defamed' someone who is indeed 'infamous' and rightly deserves to be named and shamed. However, as previously stated, the difficulty with this legislation is that it is the only peice of UK law where someone is effectively 'guilty until proven innocent'.

So if a famous footballer has an affair with my wife I would opening myself up to immense financial jeopardy if I complained about it on the internet as he would be able to bring a defamation case against me, and (an impossible) burden of proof would be upon me to demonstrate that my allegations were true.

However, if the reverse was true and a famous person made up a false allegation against me, I would not be able to afford to sue them under this act.

In practice then, the law does not apply evenly and so it seems little wonder that to me that certain allegations about certain celebraties are only made after their death.

Neigh, *snort* (just stepped off my hobby horse) - off you go Dobbin... clipty clop - clipity clop - clipity clop...

But back to the Raspberry Pi computer - selling on for a profit is bad as resellers who buy in bulk with this in mind are depriving joe public of units which they could otherwise buy at a cheaper price - just like a ticket tout. It would seem more in line with the Foundation's principals to me if they could stop that. It seems to me that they would also sell more units.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:32 pm

I think that once RS and Farnell can deliver next day at the headline price, then it will be difficult for people making large markups to continue doing so. And that day is not long away - much less than 6 months would be my estimate.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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fozzy bear
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:30 am

Re: Help stop price gouging online

Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:13 pm

hello pygmy_giant

pygmy_giant wrote :

But back to the Raspberry Pi computer - selling on for a
profit is bad as resellers who buy in bulk with this in
mind are depriving joe public of units which they could
otherwise buy at a cheaper price - just like a ticket tout.

It would seem more in line with the Foundation's principals
to me if they could stop that. It seems to me that they would
also sell more units.

end quote

I think you are basically right but we already know all this.
We may think reselling for a profit is bad but there
is NOTHING we can do about it !

The resellers are going to keep doing it
whether you/we like it or not.

Reiterating it endlessly will not change the situation.

You and I etc., do care about the foundations' philosophy
BUT the resellers DON'T care ( mostly ).
What are we going to do about that ?

hello jamesh

Element 14 are already delivering same/next day
( at least in Australia I gather - they have plenty of stock
as far as I know ).
Maybe RS can get their act together in 6 months ( lets hope
for the best ).

However I still am not convinced that ready
availability and speedy delivery will stop the
resellers. If stock is even more available
in 6 months time then the resellers will also have more access
to stocks and they will continue doing what they are doing now
( a vicious circle/cycle ).

This is what market forces and market dynamics is
all about. This is what happens in the real world with
everything else.

I know you are probably aware of all this
but that's just what I think about it anyway.

fozzy

?8O)}

From little things BIG things grow ( mighty oaks and even razzle berries ).

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