pspkgl85
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:40 am

Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:59 am

Hello R-Pi enthusiasts !!!
I am planning to buy my first R-PI board viz either 3B+ or 4.

I am sure your experience might help me here.

I am more concerned about projects compatibility with new R-Pi-4 as its being in newer board.

I see vast amount of projects are developed on R-Pi 3/3B+ for which most of the quires seems to addressed on my forums/platforms.

However spec bumps of R-Pi 4 over 3B+ are lot impressive.

So my queries are ..

A) Are/will projects developed on/ for R-Pi 3+ compatible with R-Pi 4 ?

B) will i be missing plethora support/queries solved of 3B+ for spec bump of R-Pi 4 ?

Heater
Posts: 13877
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:19 am

Given that the entire Debian/Raspbian operating system and it's thousands of packages works the same on the 4 as the 3 I fail to see why you are asking this question.

Yes of course there will be little incompatibilities that need attention, as it was when the peripheral register base address changed with the P 2 and so on. Hardly a major concern.

Yes of course there may be things that don't yet work perfectly on the 4. They will be fixed.

I fully expect all my projects to work on the Pi 4 with little or mostly no change.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

MarkDH102
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:18 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:15 am

Well, I'm a glass half full kind of guy unfortunately.
So, I would be wary. I have 8 different Pi's (0's 0W's P2B's and a 3) all running projects on the Stretch OS.
I am in no hurry at all to update to Buster as I see so many issues with it at the moment which will I am sure be fixed in the fullness of time.
So any tutorials for projects that you may pick up online will be for Stretch (and even Jessie!) I would imagine, so they may not be compatible with a Pi4 (which as I understand things, can only run Buster).
And with all due respect to Heater, he is a "seasoned pro" :D when it comes to tinkering with Pi's. If you are a beginner, trying to work your way around Linux when tutorials are meant for a different version of Linux can be very frustrating and time consuming.

LTolledo
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:19 am

What project you have in mind?

if you want to start now...my suggestion is to try it out with the RPi3B/RPi3B+ boards.
get the feel of it. :D
you can test your project, specially on the software side of thing (you will be doing some programming I assume)
at least you had a good start. ;)

continue monitoring the forum for any good developments enabling porting of your current project to RPi4B
when (most) of your requirements are met, then you can change to RPi4B.
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

Heater
Posts: 13877
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:47 am

MarkDH102,

Why thanks. As much as a may deserve the moniker "seasoned pro" or not, it was not always so. I recall very well being bewildered and befuddled by Linux and whatever distros I was using initially. With seemingly an infinite ocean of things to learn and details to catch you out. Documentation always seemed to be hard to find or incomplete or out of date. Sometimes useful if one could understand it!

Noting much has changed since then. A major issue for the beginner and seasoned pro alike is the endless change.

Even the smallest, simplest of changes in a config definition, software version/behavior, etc can render all documentation you find unworkable. Hundreds/thousands of blogs, tutorials, examples, suggestions on stackoverflow and forums no longer work. Leading to millions of hours of head scratching and frustration around the world and another round of questions about much the same things over again on blogs, tutorials, stackoverflow, forums etc.

Such a chaos generating change could be a simple change of peripheral base address, as happened in moving from Pi 1 to Pi 3. It becomes a hurricane of chaos when software versions are upgraded or moving to a new distro release. God knows what happens with the change to Python 3 and so on.

I see no end in sight to this chaotic, frustration inducing, churn.

As such, I would argue that one is going to suffer from this no matter what. A beginner might as well start with the latest release of hardware and software. Muddle through it now rather than having to muddle through in the future.

The first important thing to learn is that every document, tutorial, example you find is likely wrong. Take it as a mere suggestion as to what is possible if you work at it. Check the date of all advice. Check which versions of hardware and software the author claims it works with. Be prepared to a struggle.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
Posts: 6230
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:47 pm

Heater wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:47 am
A major issue for the beginner and seasoned pro alike is the endless change ...

I see no end in sight to this chaotic, frustration inducing, churn.
Indeed and I believe it is the main reason some businesses and developers are reluctant to support or embrace Linux and its ecosystem. That is particularly so where there is no guarantee of a return on the effort required to keep up with the shifting sands.

The worst part is when businesses and developers get the blame for their software not working when it was some change outside their control which caused that software to break, or it's something outside their control which is broken.

Andyroo

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:57 pm

hippy wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:47 pm
Heater wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:47 am
A major issue for the beginner and seasoned pro alike is the endless change ...

I see no end in sight to this chaotic, frustration inducing, churn.
Indeed and I believe it is the main reason some businesses and developers are reluctant to support or embrace Linux and its ecosystem. That is particularly so where there is no guarantee of a return on the effort required to keep up with the shifting sands.

The worst part is when businesses and developers get the blame for their software not working when it was some change outside their control which caused that software to break, or it's something outside their control which is broken.
No different from Mac or Windows based development :roll:

All computer platforms suffer badly from change (ex professional change manager here) and the drive to have ‘the new’.

Personally, I find FOSS both great and frustrating in equal measures depending on how the wind blows :lol:

Heater
Posts: 13877
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:37 pm

Some businesses and developers may well be reluctant to support or embrace Linux and its ecosystem because of perceived shifting sands.

Of course, sticking to MS or Mac does not save them from said shifting sands.

What they miss is that when you use Free and Open Source software you are in control. You get to upgrade on your time schedule.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
Posts: 6230
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:46 pm

Andyroo wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:57 pm
No different from Mac or Windows based development :roll:
I believe it is different for Windows. Microsoft has gone to great lengths to maintain backwards compatibility. I have VB6 programs compiled for XP which still run unchanged on Windows 7 and 10.

There never will be 100% backwards compatibility, but Microsoft has embraced that as desirable thing far more than Linux has.

Heater
Posts: 13877
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:53 pm

Which is an odd statement to me. I can run all the programs I used to run on my first ever RedHat installation in 1996. Perhaps not the exact same binaries but everything I used then is available still.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
Posts: 6230
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:21 pm

Heater wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:53 pm
Which is an odd statement to me. I can run all the programs I used to run on my first ever RedHat installation in 1996. Perhaps not the exact same binaries but everything I used then is available still.
Which is an odd statement to me given you said "A major issue for the beginner and seasoned pro alike is the endless change", "I see no end in sight to this chaotic, frustration inducing, churn", and "Be prepared to a struggle".

Either it is a problem or it isn't.

Given the number of replies to posts on this forum along the lines of "you are following an old tutorial, that's not how it is now, that won't work" I would tend towards believing there is a problem.

MarkDH102
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:18 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:12 pm

I have generally found windows development and deployment a LOT easier than anything I've done on Unix.
And I'm going back to good old turbo pascal and basic days and I am still able to run some vb6 and mfc code on win10!
But I do remember dll hell which I always used to circumvent by supplying all dll, vbx ocx etc files inside the deployment folder and not system32... Yes I know, tut tut.

Heater
Posts: 13877
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:18 pm

hippy,

You are right. That sounded contradictory. It is actually a problem. It's perhaps a bit bigger problem in the Pi world, despite it's 20 million sales it is still a niche platform with a custom OS and has been undergoing change. As compared to the relative stability of the PC platform.

It's also a problem in Windows world, that supposed bastion of backwards compatibility.

I became a Windows noob I couple of years back when my employer at the time insisted on buying me a Surface Pro. Guess what? The situation there is the same. Want to know how to do something, sure, there are millions of blogs and tutorials on the net, often out of date, wrong and not solving ones problem. The help from MS is pretty much useless. I was thrown back to the confusion of my early Linux days.

One just has to soak up the lay of the land and learn to roll with it.

Example: Recently ssh out of my Win 10 machine to Pi or cloud server has been hanging. I can connect and enter a password, then it hangs forever. Eventually I cotton on to doing what you always have to do in Windows, reboot the machine. Then it works again. Until next time.

If you can tell me why that started happening recently I'd love to know.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

Heater
Posts: 13877
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:24 pm

MarkDH102,
I have generally found windows development and deployment a LOT easier than anything I've done on Unix.
Really?

What kind of development are you talking about? Most things I want to do are much harder under Windows. From developing software for embedded systems to deployment in the cloud. Tools I want to use are often not supported at all or not as well as the primary target, Linix/Unix.

I have been pretty happy with Win 10 because it has the Linux Subsystem for Windows where I can finally get things done and spend most of my time.

There is a reason Windows has the LSW. To attract all those hordes of developers for which Windpos was not satisfactory before.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jcyr
Posts: 483
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:31 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:36 pm

I'm sure all the MS haters will disagree, but I've yet to find a better, more versatile, and fully integrated IDE for development and debug than Visual Studio... That said, developing for Linux is a lot more fun.
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

Heater
Posts: 13877
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:26 pm

Some have labeled me an MS "hater" over the years. I don't see it that way. I have for a long time argued that it's perhaps not wise to put all your eggs into one basket. A basket owned by a single corporation in a foreign country.

Just now I'm a very happy user of MS Visual Studio Code. On Windows, on Linux, on the Pi. There is always Vim if that becomes problematic.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jcyr
Posts: 483
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:31 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Project compatibility

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:37 pm

Heater wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:26 pm
Some have labeled me an MS "hater" over the years. I don't see it that way. I have for a long time argued that it's perhaps not wise to put all your eggs into one basket. A basket owned by a single corporation in a foreign country.

Just now I'm a very happy user of MS Visual Studio Code. On Windows, on Linux, on the Pi. There is always Vim if that becomes problematic.
I wasn't intending to single anyone out. I agree that one should use the tools best suited to the task at hand. And yes, Vi or Vim has been a reliable constant since the very beginning... Should I be concerned about the ARM architecture based on it's foreign origins and now ownership? Hope not.
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

Return to “General discussion”