HansonD
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Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:31 am

Hi bro

Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?
is it need to modify boot or something?

HansonD

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:29 am

In theory, with the right equipment, yes. In practice, no, unless you have industrial grade rework capability.

ejolson
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:46 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:29 am
In theory, with the right equipment, yes. In practice, no, unless you have industrial grade rework capability.
With previous models 1GB RAM was the limit; with the newer 4B model it is rumored that the board is wired to accommodate 16GB. It would be an interesting option for a third party to do the engineering and offer the service of installing an expanded memory upgrade.

How many would be interested in a 16GB memory upgrade if it costs US $200? What if it costs $350?

I wonder what would be the market price for an 8GB upgrade.

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:15 am

ejolson wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:46 am
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:29 am
In theory, with the right equipment, yes. In practice, no, unless you have industrial grade rework capability.
With previous models 1GB RAM was the limit; with the newer 4B model it is rumored that the board is wired to accommodate 16GB. It would be an interesting option for a third party to do the engineering and offer the service of installing an expanded memory upgrade.

How many would be interested in a 16GB memory upgrade if it costs US $200? What if it costs $350?

I wonder what would be the market price for an 8GB upgrade.
Assuming for the moment that an 8GB module that would fit even exists, it ought to be possible to go through the Element14 custom Pi program. Since there should be minimal--if any--engineering costs, it would be pretty much the production cost (plus profit for the factory and Elelment14) for a run of 3000 to 5000 boards.

There there is the issue of software that would recognize the larger memory....

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:33 am

Yes, you can but all you need to have is industrial rework capability.

jamesh
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:21 am

You also need to rewrite some of the bootloader with the new rams timing numbers.
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:52 am

In theory you can replace it with a good hot air rework station, lots of flux and a properly reballed LPDDR4 chip with the matching pinout and layout. But it needs to be supported on the software side aswell and besides all this why? 8 GB maybe for some rare, extreme use case but 16? You don't need that. Trust me.

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:54 am

HansonD wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:31 am
Hi bro

Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?
is it need to modify boot or something?

HansonD
No, you can't.

Ignore the geek sarcasm posts above. Raspberry Pi computers do not have upgradeable RAM. If you bought a 2GB model and need 4GB, then buy a 4GB model, and find another use for the 2GB.

Also, 4GB is the max available now, so no way to get 8GB at all. This may change at some point in the future, but that would depend on someone making pin compatible RAM chips of higher capacity at a price point that is agreeable to the RPF (so I wouldn't count on it).

Bottom line is, the 4GB model has the highest memory capacity available now and for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:28 am

I used to have access to industrial grade, state of the art, reflow and rework equipment (telecom manufacturer). I suspect that is not particularly rare as I suspect lots of Pi users are engineering types. Certainly have done more complex rework and repairs. Back in the dark ages of dips, I also built "stacked" RAM monstrosities.

I suspect someone will do it just because they can. However, your main point still stands, Pi is not designed to be upgradeable, as the RAM is in a complex package and soldered to the PCB.

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:02 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:28 am
I suspect someone will do it just because they can.
Moderately likely, but it won't be by someone who comes to the forums and asks if it is possible.

ejolson
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:04 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:02 pm
bjtheone wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:28 am
I suspect someone will do it just because they can.
Moderately likely, but it won't be by someone who comes to the forums and asks if it is possible.
The person who asks if something is possible may also be willing to pay for someone else to do it. At present, however, I've not seen such an upgrade service.

As has already been pointed out, the upgrade from 2GB to 4GB is best accomplished by swapping boards--there are plenty of 4GB models available. For this reason a field upgrade is only interesting for 8GB and 16GB memory sizes.

Most data center applications requiring that much memory likely also benefit from the increased speeds of ThunderX and Graviton ARM processors. In this case, it may be better to buy a $4000 server instead of a Raspberry Pi. That reminds me that I was planning to make a Pi pie chart comparing the speed of a Pi 4B to an ARM-based Amazon EC2 A1 instance.

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:21 pm

Did you even find a SoC compatible with the board which has 8 gb of memory?

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm

Q. Do you think, if it was possible to have an 8GB device this easily, we would already be selling an 8GB device?
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:18 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm
Q. Do you think, if it was possible to have an 8GB device this easily, we would already be selling an 8GB device?
No. From a marketing point of view it would be far too expensive to sell.

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:26 pm

ejolson wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:18 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm
Q. Do you think, if it was possible to have an 8GB device this easily, we would already be selling an 8GB device?
No. From a marketing point of view it would be far too expensive to sell.
if it is possible to sell mains cable to Hi-Fi nutters at £25 per 0.25 metres (https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalo ... -3160.html), a $299 RPi4B 8 Gbyte doesn't appear too outrageous.

(That cable is cheap compared to the leads at https://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?category=mains+cables eg Vertere Pulse-HB Mains Power Cable - 2m for only £2100.00)

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:37 pm

cmrincon wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:21 pm
Did you even find a SoC compatible with the board which has 8 gb of memory?
It's not the SoC. The SoC can address 16GB. It's a combination of parts availability and price. Perhaps what you should ask yourself is (a) how much would you be willing to pay for an 8GB Pi4B, and (b) how many other people would also be willing to pay that much? This is all beside the issue of what possible Pi use case would actually benefit from that much RAM at this time.

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:51 pm

HansonD wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:31 am
Hi bro

Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?
is it need to modify boot or something?

HansonD
Simplest solution: Just buy the 4Gb version and keep the 2Gb version intact. Pi's aren't that expensive so far as computers go. No?

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:18 pm

drgeoff wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:26 pm
if it is possible to sell mains cable to Hi-Fi nutters at £25 per 0.25 metres (https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalo ... -3160.html), a $299 RPi4B 8 Gbyte doesn't appear too outrageous.

(That cable is cheap compared to the leads at https://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?category=mains+cables eg Vertere Pulse-HB Mains Power Cable - 2m for only £2100.00)
Or shielded and gold plated toslink cables :mrgreen:

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:14 am

ejolson wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:18 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm
Q. Do you think, if it was possible to have an 8GB device this easily, we would already be selling an 8GB device?
No. From a marketing point of view it would be far too expensive to sell.
No it wouldn't. People would still buy it at $75 or $85 or whatever price would be possible. Because SHINY. At 8GB the RAM chip is the biggest expense on the board (TBH, even at lower levels its the expensive part)
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:58 am

I half agree. People buy the "best" just to have the best, regardless of whether they even need or use it.

Look at the 4GB model for example...
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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:04 am

jamesh wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:14 am
No it wouldn't. People would still buy it at $75 or $85 or whatever price would be possible. Because SHINY. At 8GB the RAM chip is the biggest expense on the board (TBH, even at lower levels its the expensive part)
Bu of course! Most of the stuff is bought because it is SHINY and I don't see anything wrong with it :D

Joke aside - 4GB made Pi4 quite usable as 'desktop' computer. 8GB would make it even better. Couple of times I needed to go through inconvenient 'close unnecessary tabs in Chromium, close Idea and something else' just to be able to do some compilation or such. With 8GB I would feel closer to how I feel on my Mac... Given access to funds I would go with those extra £20+ just to get such convenience. But this is, really, some other thread's topic.

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:50 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:14 am
ejolson wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:18 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm
Q. Do you think, if it was possible to have an 8GB device this easily, we would already be selling an 8GB device?
No. From a marketing point of view it would be far too expensive to sell.
No it wouldn't. People would still buy it at $75 or $85 or whatever price would be possible. Because SHINY. At 8GB the RAM chip is the biggest expense on the board (TBH, even at lower levels its the expensive part)
I was basing my price estimate on the current US $699 list price of the NVIDIA Jetson AGX Xavier, which is an ARM-based single-board computer with 16GB RAM. While I suspect purchasing just the module in large quantities leads to a significant discount, the Xavier doesn't quite have the popular appeal of a Raspberry Pi. At any rate, since the Pi 4B with 4GB is such a bargain, I guess one should also expect the 8GB model to be economically priced if and when it becomes available.

Would it be reasonable to say an 8GB Pi at $75 or $85 is on the future-product roadmap?

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:22 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:14 am
ejolson wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:18 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm
Q. Do you think, if it was possible to have an 8GB device this easily, we would already be selling an 8GB device?
No. From a marketing point of view it would be far too expensive to sell.
No it wouldn't. People would still buy it at $75 or $85 or whatever price would be possible. Because SHINY. At 8GB the RAM chip is the biggest expense on the board (TBH, even at lower levels its the expensive part)
I will admit that I don't see the utility of an 8GB Pi4B, at least at present. If one were offered--and I could afford it--I'd get one, but that has more to do with having pretty much every other model of Pi that has been offered for general sale. This is not to say that I think there are no use cases for an 8GB Pi4, just that nothing I'm doing or plan on doing with Pis is likely to need more than 2GB, let alone more than 4GB. (Even with that caveat, I do have a project that will entail 3 Pi4B4 boards, but since the current implementation is running on 1GB SBCs, it should be quite comfortable in 2GB, let alone 4GB. The extra RAM will permit--possible--future additions of capability.)

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:28 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:58 am
I half agree. People buy the "best" just to have the best, regardless of whether they even need or use it.

Look at the 4GB model for example...
RAM shaming. I routinely use more than 2 GB. Oh wait, I'm using it wrong. :roll:

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Re: Can i upgrade LPDDR4 4GB or 8GB form RPi4 (2GB)?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:52 pm

Main point that most seem to be missing here is, it has been stated by officials associated with RPF/RPT that the largest compatible RAM chip available is 4GB. So you cannot upgrade RAM on a Pi4 to 8GB(+), no matter what equipment or skills you have available (as I said above, that may change in the future, but for now it's not possible).

Assuming the appropriate equipment and skills, upgrading a 4B2 to a 4B4 is theoretically possible, but it would be simpler, and likely cheaper to just buy a 4B4 (and you'd end up with two Pi4 computers, instead of one with a voided warranty and a useless leftover RAM chip).
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