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Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:24 pm
by Imperf3kt
procount wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:01 am
Or maybe just add 2 back to back adaptors:
Usb-c/micro-usb -> micro-usb/usb-c.?
I can confirm that USB-C cables do not appear to work when used like that.
(I've tried)

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:49 pm
by procount
Thanks for confirming it doesn't work. It was a suggestion someone made to me.
I guess it depends on whether the USB-C/micro adaptor contains the necessary cc resistors for power delivery. Often they don't say.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:31 pm
by emma1997
hippy wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:00 am
I doubt any company would create an adaptor for commercial sale as it would probably be too costly given the small market for such a board
What do you mean 'small market'? There have to be at least 3 individuals here in the US alone desperate for such a solution. Considering design and tooling should be able to produce such an item for as little as $200-$300 per. lol

I think there was a Shakespeare play on the subject: Much Ado About Nothing?

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:41 am
by Imperf3kt
Stopping and thinking about it for a moment, a smart charger is supposed to default to just supplying 5v if it's plugged into a non smart device. At least, it does with micro USB.

What would happen if someone was to take a USB-C cable and only connect the vcc and GND wires into the Pi with something like this?
https://core-electronics.com.au/micro-u ... -pi-4.html

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:32 am
by supersjimmie
What I meant with the usb-c male/female could also be done with something like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005988619.html
Then do exactly the same with adding one 5.1k resistor on te same pin.

That should work?

Or easier to compose, but less pretty:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000026719770.html

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:19 am
by clicky
supersjimmie wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:32 am
Or easier to compose, but less pretty:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000026719770.html
Brilliant! :D

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:35 am
by HawaiianPi
supersjimmie wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:30 am
Instead of having to modify the rPI4 board, would it be possible to add the 5.1k resistor inbetween a male/female usb-c connector?
That way we can have just a small converter-cable with the resistor instead of the risk of ruining the rpi4 board.

Power adapter USB-C -> diy USB-C [male] -> diy cable with resistor -> USB-C [female] -> RPi4
Sure, that would probably work, assuming you made the correct connections, but I've got as even easier and less risky solution...

Just buy the official power supply. :roll:

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:57 am
by davidcoton
Somewhere here there is a thread that discussed how to modify a cable. Remember it has to work with both orientations of the plug. IIRC a one-resistor modification in the Pi end plug would work. Of course, the cable/adaptor is now useless for anything else. If you really need to use a smart charger, the mod to the Pi itself is as easy (not that easy, but within the scope of a competent amateur solderer) and saves having to buy extra kit (extra power connectors are in themselves a Bad Thing ™). If you don't want to modify your Pi, Just buy the official power supply.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:00 am
by supersjimmie
HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:35 am
Just buy the official power supply. :roll:
Sure, but that won't answer the title of this discussion.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:12 am
by jamesh
supersjimmie wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:00 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:35 am
Just buy the official power supply. :roll:
Sure, but that won't answer the title of this discussion.
No, but it will be cheaper.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:22 am
by HawaiianPi
supersjimmie wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:00 am
Sure, but that won't answer the title of this discussion.
Already been answered. Was there some other answer you were looking for?

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:43 pm
by procount
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:24 pm
procount wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:01 am
Or maybe just add 2 back to back adaptors:
Usb-c/micro-usb -> micro-usb/usb-c.?
I can confirm that USB-C cables do not appear to work when used like that.
(I've tried)
@imperf3kt - Despite your experience, I decided to buy a pair of USB-C socket to micro-USB plug adaptors and tried one with my microUSB socket to usb-C adaptor. I chose these Arktek one's from Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/ARKTEK-female- ... B071W8WQBD)

One of the adaptors was faulty, and wouldn't even work as a MicroUSB charger.
However, the other one worked fine back-to-back and allowed a USB-C PD charger to power my PI4.
So, it seems it would depend on the characteristics of the adaptor you use and specifically whether it includes the 2 CC resistors to tell the PD charger to deliver power.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:02 pm
by Imperf3kt
Nice to know.

I would mention the adaptor I have appears to includes some electronics.
This is the exact one I purchased.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/antsig-usb- ... k_p4360482

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:16 am
by energyi
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:18 pm
spooker wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:23 am
Do we have any idea when rpi4 revision 2 that will fix this major flaw will be available?
The flaw is minor, so there's no hurry. I doubt the change will result is a Rev. 2 of the PCB. More likely to be 1.1 or 1.2, or even 1.0.1. I do not, personally, expect to see a revised board for about 6 months. Could be sooner, could be longer. It all depends on whether or not any other board corrections are found that need to be done and how urgent they are.
Just about exactly 6 months.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:32 pm
by Stokestack
My Pi 4 just arrived from Adafruit today, and unfortunately it's the old version (2 GB model). So I decided screw it, I'm going to do this mod before I even fire it up. I will say that the only thing that made this task possible was an inspection microscope and some very, very pointy tweezers.

At that scale, you see how soft and flaky the metal is. As you're scraping away to break this tiny pin off the PCB pad, shavings are going everywhere. And you only get a couple of bends of the metal before it breaks. So it would have been very easy to ruin the whole connector.

In the end, it seemed to go fine. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for my micro-HDMI adapters, so I haven't powered it up yet.
Pi4_powerMod.jpg
Pi4_powerMod.jpg (199.21 KiB) Viewed 1002 times

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:39 pm
by dickon
And you're planning to power it from..?

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:43 pm
by W. H. Heydt
Stokestack wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:32 pm
My Pi 4 just arrived from Adafruit today, and unfortunately it's the old version (2 GB model).
Interesting... The one I got from Chicago Electronics last month is a v1.2.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:12 am
by Stokestack
dickon wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:39 pm
And you're planning to power it from..?
I have some Mac chargers, Motorola chargers, a windmill, waterwheel, clock tower...

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:42 pm
by jbudd
I have ... a windmill, waterwheel, clock tower...
It would be interesting to see details of [home made] wind and water turbines that can provide just enough power for a Pi 4.
Powering a Pi with a clock tower is especially intriguing! :D

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:37 pm
by Stokestack
Image

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:45 am
by Imperf3kt
Stokestack wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:32 pm
My Pi 4 just arrived from Adafruit today, and unfortunately it's the old version (2 GB model). So I decided screw it, I'm going to do this mod before I even fire it up. I will say that the only thing that made this task possible was an inspection microscope and some very, very pointy tweezers.

At that scale, you see how soft and flaky the metal is. As you're scraping away to break this tiny pin off the PCB pad, shavings are going everywhere. And you only get a couple of bends of the metal before it breaks. So it would have been very easy to ruin the whole connector.

In the end, it seemed to go fine. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for my micro-HDMI adapters, so I haven't powered it up yet.

Pi4_powerMod.jpg
Have you confirmed that you even need to perform this mod? By now, you should not be able to buy a Pi without the fix applied from new.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:54 am
by trejan
Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:45 am
Have you confirmed that you even need to perform this mod? By now, you should not be able to buy a Pi without the fix applied from new.
The photo does show a v1.1. The v1.2 board has a small WLCSP component at the corner of the SoC near the WiFi shielding can. Presumably that is the SD card voltage switch that was mentioned as one of the v1.2 changes.

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:17 am
by Stokestack
Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:45 am
Have you confirmed that you even need to perform this mod? By now, you should not be able to buy a Pi without the fix applied from new.
Yes, as noted above, there's a component by the SD slot. And apparently no, you can't expect to receive a 1.2. Adafruit (rather huffily, it seemed to me) declares that there's no way for them to know which revision a unit is. As everyone in this thread knows, that's not technically true... but to be fair, they are in sealed boxes with no external markings. I think the unmarked boxes are a bit bogus on the manufacturer's part, but I understand not wanting resellers to be saddled with "obsolete" inventory that does work in most cases.

Meanwhile, I fired the thing up and it works great!

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:34 am
by mmoseeker
supersjimmie wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:32 am
What I meant with the usb-c male/female could also be done with something like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005988619.html
Then do exactly the same with adding one 5.1k resistor on te same pin.

That should work?

Or easier to compose, but less pretty:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000026719770.html
too too long to deliver from aliexpress

Re: Fixing the Pi 4 usb C issue by hand

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 pm
by ximon
This mod is only required to use e-marked usb-c to usb-c cables on a < v1.2 pi 4 isn't it?
I have a multiple usb-c to usb-a 2.0 cables that cause the pi 4 to just show a red light and not boot when plugged into a oneplus 6t charger, but it boots fine from a samsung charger.