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Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:35 am
by rin67630
If no, is the restriction to only one piece stil justified?

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:46 am
by rpdom
No, yes.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:51 am
by rin67630
rpdom wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:46 am
No, yes.
Why?

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:17 am
by fruitoftheloom
rin67630 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:51 am
rpdom wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:46 am
No, yes.
Why?

The Zero WH $15.00 model does not have any restrictions on quantity.


The restriction on the Zero & ZeroW was put in place so that "everyone" could get one at a price where Raspberry Pi Trading and Resellers made a small profit and hopefully Resellers could also sell other items. [ It was also (I presume) to stop them being used in commercial products. ]


If a someone wants to manufacture a product containing a Zero they can buy in quantity but need a special order at a higher price.


There is somewhere in these forums a long post with more information......

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:57 am
by rin67630
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:17 am
The restriction on the Zero & ZeroW was put in place so that "everyone" could get one at a price where Raspberry Pi Trading and Resellers made a small profit and hopefully Resellers could also sell other items.
So that politic is preventing a classroom or a non-profit-association to purchase e.g. 20 devices in a grouped way, enriching solely the parcel business.
We would not mind paying a bit more for an unrestricted Zero, but have got no use for the WH version.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:47 am
by fruitoftheloom
rin67630 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:57 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:17 am
The restriction on the Zero & ZeroW was put in place so that "everyone" could get one at a price where Raspberry Pi Trading and Resellers made a small profit and hopefully Resellers could also sell other items.
So that politic is preventing a classroom or a non-profit-association to purchase e.g. 20 devices in a grouped way, enriching solely the parcel business.
We would not mind paying a bit more for an unrestricted Zero, but have got no use for the WH version.

Curb the attitude...

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=198705

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:50 am
by rin67630
We don't have to beg for a one-time requirement.
I am just trying to start a discussion.
If am alone to think that way, let's forget it.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:57 am
by fruitoftheloom
rin67630 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:50 am
We don't have to beg for a one-time requirement.
I am just trying to start a discussion.
If am alone to think that way, let's forget it.

It has been extensively discussed already, took me little time to find 3 posts, sure there are several more apart from the one I linked above over the last few years........

....I have no more to add !!!


Though others are free to carry on discussion, it is after all an entire voluntary forum kindly hosted (paid for) by RPF / RPT.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:03 am
by rin67630
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:47 am
Curb the attitude...
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=198705
The discussion stopped with an outlook to a change in the future, now we are in that future.
The very purpose WAS production shortages years ago.
So TODAY nothing would prevent proposing an "Unlimited" Zero version, that would have been slightly (respectively ~20%) more expensive?
The dealers could have got a better life than sending (probably under cost) 20 separate packages to 20 new customers that bloats their customer database.
It is not a matter of greed and it's fine to have a higher price tag for quantities, just make it more convenient for everybody.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:21 am
by davidcoton
rin67630 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:03 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:47 am
Curb the attitude...
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=198705
The discussion stopped with an outlook to a change in the future, now we are in that future.
The very purpose WAS production shortages years ago.
So TODAY nothing would prevent proposing an "Unlimited" Zero version, that would have been slightly (respectively ~20%) more expensive?
The dealers could have got a better life than sending (probably under cost) 20 separate packages to 20 new customers that bloats their customer database.
It is not a matter of greed and it's fine to have a higher price tag for quantities, just make it more convenient for everybody.
If you think you can market it that way, why not offer to buy several thousand from RPT with a view to selling them in multiples at a premium price? Just don't try negotiating on the forum.

Or, of course, design and manufacture your own Pi Killer and market that however you like.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:11 am
by Burngate
My take on it:
When the Pi first saw the light of day, it was meant to be as cheap as a computer could be and still be a computer.
But things moved on, so someone asked (during tea-break, not proper working hours) "how cheap can a computer really be?" and the result was the Zero.

I don't believe it's made under-cost - that would be cheating. I assume Sony, being Welsh, wouldn't work for nothing, and the same goes for the rest of the supply chain.

But slotting their production into the gaps between other more valuable runs means they'll always be in short supply, so one-per is still required, and probably always will be.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:44 am
by fanoush
Burngate wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:11 am
I don't believe it's made under-cost
Maybe it is not made under cost but Zero for $5 or Zero W for $9 is sold under cost. That's why shops can limit how many of them they can sell you. Some shops will sell you one piece ever and refuse second because they are simply losing money on this. Some will sell you one per order because they think it makes sense for them. But they cannot afford to do this in higher quantity. This is proof for me that when counting everything they are selling under cost.

Re: Does the foundation produce the Zero under cost?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:49 pm
by hippy
fanoush wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:44 am
Maybe it is not made under cost but Zero for $5 or Zero W for $9 is sold under cost. That's why shops can limit how many of them they can sell you. Some shops will sell you one piece ever and refuse second because they are simply losing money on this.
One can argue that no Pi is ever sold under cost, but some retailers may be under-charging on their order fulfilment costs.

The better way of thinking about it, rather than in terms of under-selling with all its connotations, is that there simply isn't enough profit in a $5 Zero or $10 Zero W to make those viable at scale.