itnufc
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:11 pm

I spend most days in a small dingy office designing manufacturing machines,tools and fixtures. I have been following the Raspberry pi project for some months and probably like everyone else on this site, I have been deliberating the many uses for the device. I was wondering if there would be any legal implications in using the rasp' pi in a commercial/industrial environment?


tufty
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:19 pm

If you buy one, it"s yours. What you do with it afterwards is up to you, just like it is with any other product.

dhb
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:23 pm

From what they've said publicly I doubt there is any issue using Raspberry Pi that you wouldn't have using any other retail product.  However, I suspect there are all sorts of issues with using general retail products in products that hobbyists don't ever think about and, given their limited resources, I doubt the foundation would be willing to help with them.  (E.g. certificates of compliance, liability waivers, etc.)

For commercial use, you need to consult your own lawyers and, I'd guess, they need to consult the foundation's.

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scep
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:30 pm

The Foundation are happy for people to use them how they will.

More sales = more Pis. More Pis = good.

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Mezo
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:34 pm

I think the only issue would be the OS used in a commercial environment, unless you did your own flavor?

Mezo.

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johnbeetem
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:37 am

IANAL/JMO

Here's my understanding: GNU and Linux are licensed under GPL.  You can use GPL software for any purpose whatsoever, commercial or non-commercial.  You can modify GPL software and use it without restriction within your organization.  However, if you distribute GPL software further you must make its source code available, including the changes you have made to it.  For example, if you were to make a product based on RasPi's GPL software then you would need to include the source code of the GPL software or otherwise make it available on request.  Check the GPL philosophy and license at fsf.org for details.

Other RasPi software may have different licenses and different terms.  However, I would guess that all or mostly all would allow you to do anything you wanted within your organization, and it's only if you redistribute that you need to worry about license terms.

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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:00 am

I would suspect that your main problem, at least for a while, is getting enough of them.

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rurwin
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:19 pm

To clarify, or obfuscate, John Beetem's reply...

The Linux kernel has a GPL clarification which explicitly says it can be used with commercial applications without requiring that the application source-code is divulged. Most libraries use the LGPL or similar with the same effect.

The only time companies fall foul of the GPL is when they ship modified versions of GPLed applications or fail to commit to providing the source-code of GPLed applications that they use. If your application runs on Linux using the Linux/Gnu libraries, and you write everything else, you will not have to provide the source-code of your application.

You may need to provide a mirror of the RPi Linux source-code for your customers to download from.

People run into problems when they think of GPLed code as if it was in the public domain. It isn't. If you treat Linux, the Gnu libraries and any other applications you use as if they were commercial, you will not go wrong.

(I am not a lawyer.)

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n3tw0rk5
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:45 pm

Once the RasPi's are easily available i'll be using at least 2 in my workshop, the low power usage and tiny footprint is a great advantage over standard pc's for tasks that dont require much cpu or ram.

stormy1
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:17 pm

The video and audio codecs will likely be an issue.

If your releasing a media player you will likely have to license them.

If you don't use them and remove the drivers from the software you should be ok I would think.

However I am not an attorney.

Maybe someone from the foundation knows the right answer to this.

itnufc
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:03 pm

The above replies seem to be concentrating on the software, however am I right in thinking that the hardware is not covered with such restrictions. So basically once purchased it is your property to modify and sell on how you wish?

For example, the foundation have been pushing the capability of the raspberry pi running airplay and xbmc player .In theory, someone could install this software and sell them as a dedicated media player if they wish (assuming the source code is already available for these applications).

p.s. I am in no way considering exploiting the raspberry pi in this way. The projects primary goal of making programming accessible to children should never be pushed into the background. This is a good charity with a great ambitions.

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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:45 pm

itnufc said:


The above replies seem to be concentrating on the software, however am I right in thinking that the hardware is not covered with such restrictions. So basically once purchased it is your property to modify and sell on how you wish?

For example, the foundation have been pushing the capability of the raspberry pi running airplay and xbmc player .In theory, someone could install this software and sell them as a dedicated media player if they wish (assuming the source code is already available for these applications).

p.s. I am in no way considering exploiting the raspberry pi in this way. The projects primary goal of making programming accessible to children should never be pushed into the background. This is a good charity with a great ambitions.


Yes, you are perfectly entitled to do that.
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kratediggah
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:30 am

Hi,

so i understand that using the Pi within an commerical product is totally fine. What if i combine the RasPi + PiFace? I was told that if you combine retail products, then you must get those together certified (FCA, RoHS, ..) all together which costs tens of thousands of dollars. Otherwise you cannot sell these component-combination as a commerical product. What i was told too is, that you can combine these and sell them as consulting service but then you are legally responsible for any outages and hardware failures.

Is this right or what are the precise limitations for using a RasPi + PiFace + Case as a commercial product?

Thanks in advance,
Best Regards
kd

Killertechno
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:04 pm

Ok, sorry if I resume discussion, but it's just to be sure I've correctly understood:

limits on Raspberry Pi for commercial use are just in terms of software and trademarks ("Raspberry Pi" and logo), but NO LIMITATIONS IN HARDWARE, is this right?
Thanks.

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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:11 pm

Killertechno wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:04 pm
Ok, sorry if I resume discussion, but it's just to be sure I've correctly understood:

limits on Raspberry Pi for commercial use are just in terms of software and trademarks ("Raspberry Pi" and logo), but NO LIMITATIONS IN HARDWARE, is this right?
Thanks.
Putting a pi on a case and selling will require the hardware to be recertified, if your market requires it. Usually just emmissons. Also GPL requirements on the software.
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techskies11
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:58 pm

What is the requirements for it, what is emissions. And what about FCC, I’m in Canada.

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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:23 pm

techskies11 wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:58 pm
What is the requirements for it, what is emissions. And what about FCC, I’m in Canada.

There is a really good BLOG on the RPF web site dealing with Compliance:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... programme/
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techskies11
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:56 pm

I checked out the link, but I have a question that the link didn't contain,
would we have to pay fees for the use of HDMI, USB or other components on the board.
I was told that it is covered from raspberry pi when they create it. but I don't know.

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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:01 pm

techskies11 wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:56 pm
I checked out the link, but I have a question that the link didn't contain,
would we have to pay fees for the use of HDMI, USB or other components on the board.
I was told that it is covered from raspberry pi when they create it. but I don't know.
No, not as far as I am aware. This has come up fairly recently. Forum search might find it.
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:46 pm

The main issue would be getting the required EMI/RFI emissions certifications, which will vary by location, and making sure you are not using any non-GPL software, of which the full Raspbian with Desktop has several pieces (like Oracle Java, for example). If you only need Raspbian Lite, you should be okay, but you need to look into this in detail to be sure. I don't think Raspbian Lite has any non-GPL software (other than the RPF firmware), but I'm not 100% sure.

Of course your other option would be to roll your own GNU/Linux, which would give you full control over what's in it. Or you could do your own custom machine level software, in which case you would own the license/trademark/copyright, etc.

And then there's the issue of which Raspberry Pi you want to use. If you are looking at using the Pi Zero, forget about it. This comes up all the time, and it's a dead end. The Compute Module is the Pi designed for commercial use, but the PiB+, 2B or 3B could likely be sourced in sufficient quantities as well.
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:29 pm

Of course if you distribute GPL software then you have to abide by the GPL. That requires that you can also supply, on demand, all the source code that was used to build your system.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

techskies11
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:27 am

Why is the pi zero a dead end ?

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rpdom
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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:09 am

techskies11 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:27 am
Why is the pi zero a dead end ?
For a start the restricted supply (one item per person per day at most retailers). Unless you want really large quantities, in which case contact RPT and negotiate a price (it will probably be higher per unit than the retail cost of the single items). Then the fact that the CMx format is guaranteed to be backward compatible for several years, while the Zero layout could change at any time - an example is the change in the position of the testpoints under the USB port between the 1.2 and 1.3 Zero.

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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:23 pm

Oh ok I I understand
Thanks

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Re: Raspberry Pi for commercial use

Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:48 am

Heater wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:29 pm
Of course if you distribute GPL software then you have to abide by the GPL. That requires that you can also supply, on demand, all the source code that was used to build your system.
Not true. You are only required to provide the source code for GPL products that you have used (Raspian), not for your own bespoke software. The only time you have to produce your own source-code is when you have linked your software to libraries or other programs that use the GPL instead of the LGPL, or when you have modified a GPL'd product. Those things are fairly easy to avoid doing. Otherwise a duplicate of the Raspbian repository would be sufficient. It wouldn't have to support high demand.

But you should seriously consider employing a copyright lawyer, who could give you legally dependable advice.

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