bjtheone
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:51 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:55 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:48 pm
If it's so important to you that your SD card socket remain empty, then by all means wait for updated EEPROM code. My guess is that very few see any distinction or care and would rather get on with running Raspbian from a much faster/larger USB device.
If people didn't care about the distinction, this thread would not exist.
Could you articulate what the issue is, other than the purist requirement of "no SD card"? I completely get the performance desire, and the bigger storage desire, and the concerns about running a read/write environment on an CD card which is not really designed for that use case. Given that the boot from SD, roofs on USB connected storage (physical disk, USB, SSD or whatever) solves all of these except the absence of an SD card in the SD slot why does it matter? WHat possible advantage do you get from a "true" boot from USB solution. Unless you are really unix skilled you are going to build the USB connected rootfs from a SD anyways. Is the sunk cost of leaving a 4 or 8 GB SD card the issue? If it is a skills requirement, building a true boot from USB for the Pi 3B+ was no simpler than building the "hybrid" solution on the Pi 4B.

Failing any reason, you do come across as just complaining to complain. The network boot case solves some issues, including large school deployments where defining/controlling the environment is important.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:48 pm

thagrol wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:31 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:18 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:56 pm


Right now: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy

No complicated steps involved or additional tools required.
Only if one is satisfied with a hybrid boot (and that has already be mentioned in this thread). If one actually wants "USB boot", then waiting is in order.
You're getting overly hung up on the connection layer with the HDD on this.
I would hope that anyone asking for USB boot is already aware of how to do a hybrid boot, and if they are, then asking for USB boot would indicate that the hybrid version isn't what they're asking about.

Personally, I prefer the non-hybrid solution, but if the hybrid version is all there is, then I have no qualms about using it. And, indeed, I have done so with a CM1 and a Pi3B, the latter before the non-hybrid version was available. As it is, the Pi3B I did that with was upgraded to a full USB boot...when it became available and that Pi has since be replaced with a Pi3B+. If I upgrade the Pi3B+ to a Pi4B (which I intend to to...eventually), having to use hybrid boot would be a step backwards. I'd prefer to wait for the full USB boot to implemented.

So...as I've already said, if the hybrid boot is all anyone wanted, this thread wouldn't exist.

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rpdom
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:53 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:48 pm
If I upgrade the Pi3B+ to a Pi4B (which I intend to to...eventually), having to use hybrid boot would be a step backwards. I'd prefer to wait for the full USB boot to implemented.
Why wait? If you have the opportunity to get a Pi 4B now, do so. The USB and Net boot will be a simple firmware upgrade, and it will give you the chance to make sure all your software works on the Pi 4B now.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:03 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:51 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:55 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:48 pm
If it's so important to you that your SD card socket remain empty, then by all means wait for updated EEPROM code. My guess is that very few see any distinction or care and would rather get on with running Raspbian from a much faster/larger USB device.
If people didn't care about the distinction, this thread would not exist.
Could you articulate what the issue is, other than the purist requirement of "no SD card"?
Is another reason needed? The RPT established a way to boot without an SD card on the Pi3B (and Pi2Bv1.2) and made it a standard feature of the Pi3B+. If a further reason is needed, it does afford the ability to use SD cards for sneakernet transfers without tying up a USB port.
WHat possible advantage do you get from a "true" boot from USB solution.
For me, I consider it a "cleaner" solution. The attached drive contains *everything*, just as when booting from a SD card, the card contains everything. Beyond that, it's just using a feature that the RPT has decided to make available. Should they suddenly announce that there will never be a full USB boot on the Pi4B, then it becomes moot and one gets to choose between a Pi3B/Pi3B+ with the feature or a Pi4B without it.
Failing any reason, you do come across as just complaining to complain. The network boot case solves some issues, including large school deployments where defining/controlling the environment is important.
I'm not complaining. I am taking exception to the attitude of "why don't you just use hybrid boot?" as if that is the only answer needed or desired.

I fully support the RPT implementing network booting *first*, even though I have no intent to use it. That's a matter of supporting the RPF goals (education). Having announced that USB boot will follow later is fine. I'll just point out that I don't start these threads. I usually jump in when someone says that hybrid booting is just as good. That may or may not be true, depending on the needs and desires of the individual. Anyone who is happy with hybrid booting needn't start a thread asking when USB boot will be implemented, as they've got what they want now, so suggesting that hybrid booting is "just as good" entirely misses the point, even if it is for the vast majority of possible uses.

jerrm
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:12 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:05 pm
I started a "war" yay me. :lol: :oops:
Concepts of simplicity and one less point of failure (however likely or not) are lost on some.

For us conformity comes into play. All of the Pis we (as in my company) have in the wild are USB only. Moving to a Pi4 going forward would be the default option, but not if it means a mix of usb and sd boot.
Last edited by jerrm on Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:17 pm

jerrm wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:12 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:05 pm
I started a "war" yay me. :lol: :oops:
Concepts of simplicity and one less point of failure (however likely or not) are lost on some.

For us conformity comes into play. All of the Pis we have in the wild that are USB only. Moving to a Pi4 going forward would be the default option, but not if it means a mix of usb and sd boot.
Not to be excessively contrary, but I hope that you are speaking strictly about the Pis you are dealing with and not making a claim about "All of the Pis ...in the wild". I have quite a number of Pis (Pi0, Pi0W, Model A, Model B, B+, Pi2Bv1.1, CM) that will not do USB boot. They could do hybrid boot, though.

jerrm
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:21 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:03 pm
Is another reason needed? The RPT established a way to boot without an SD card on the Pi3B (and Pi2Bv1.2) and made it a standard feature of the Pi3B+.
A common expectation is the new improved product does not go backwards. For a rather basic feature, the Pi4 is a step backwards. That said, I don't think they should have waited for it, if nothing else, we can get a lot of testing out of the way.

jerrm
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:24 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:17 pm
Not to be excessively contrary, but I hope that you are speaking strictly about the Pis you are dealing with and not making a claim about "All of the Pis ...in the wild". I have quite a number of Pis (Pi0, Pi0W, Model A, Model B, B+, Pi2Bv1.1, CM) that will not do USB boot. They could do hybrid boot, though.
I would have thought that obvious, but seeing as I have not bought every pi ever made, I edited to clarify.

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mahjongg
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 pm

Don't nobody understand that the NEW USB bootloader is conceptually much more complex than the extremely simple, boot from the first blockdevice you find minimalistic boot code built into the PI3+ which had only a few hundred bytes of code.
Its not a "regression" if the new bootcode is infinitely more complex, and can (should) handle many more situations.

The only "fault" is see, is that perhaps they should just have copied the old primitive boot code to the EEPROM for the time being.
Just to prevent the kind of "discussion" we get now, but perhaps that wasn't possible somehow.

P.S. I WILL (and have) deleted posts here that are just made to throw oil on this fire.

bjtheone
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:10 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:03 pm
I'm not complaining. I am taking exception to the attitude of "why don't you just use hybrid boot?" as if that is the only answer needed or desired.

I fully support the RPT implementing network booting *first*, even though I have no intent to use it. That's a matter of supporting the RPF goals (education). Having announced that USB boot will follow later is fine. I'll just point out that I don't start these threads. I usually jump in when someone says that hybrid booting is just as good. That may or may not be true, depending on the needs and desires of the individual. Anyone who is happy with hybrid booting needn't start a thread asking when USB boot will be implemented, as they've got what they want now, so suggesting that hybrid booting is "just as good" entirely misses the point, even if it is for the vast majority of possible uses.
Jumping and and stirring the pot without adding value is in my mind even worse than just complaining. I completely concede that for some use cases folks may need USB boot and that not having it is a temporary step back for the 4B over earlier Pi's. However I take issue with folks that just whine without explaining why they need the pure solution or expect new products to be perfect and always have a superset of features. I would go further and state that any home user (not corporate or school that may have particular standards dictated to them) would be hard pressed to articulate a use case that invalidates a hybrid solution.

To your point, lots of folks may not be aware that hybrid boot is (a) available and (b) provides all the advantages of USB boot, other than still requiring a SD card and tying up the SD slot. Offering up the solution is a useful reply.

I am happy that they released the 4B prior to sorting USB boot out since it is a significant improvement for my use case and as such I voted with my dollars. When true USB boot comes along I will likely update the firmware. Not sure if I will actually switch over, since I like the backup of the SD card. Never considered the SD card for sneaker net since they are small and fiddly to plug in/out and easy to loose. I sneaker net with USB since everything I care about has a USB port and I have lots of thumb drives. Actually everything other than my digital camera has USB (many laptops, 2 Pi, chromebooks, chromebox, set top boxes, stereo, tvs, cars, desktops, phones (via micro to USB adaptor)).

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:18 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:01 pm
jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:54 pm
PeterO wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:21 pm

Between you and all the RPT/RPF people, which do you think knows their business best ? Hint: It's not you :roll:
PeterO
Sarcasm: Hostility disguised as humor. Gotta love it!
So I ask a slightly different question. Why do you think you know RPT/RPF business better than all the RPT/RPF people ? (because that's what you are claiming!)
Not sure that's was ever my claim (though I suppose that was the conclusion you jumped on). How many have posted here about the lack of network boot?

I have over a dozen Pi, half of them in active 24/7 duty. Probably the best low-cost embedded platform there is. I'm am however fascinated by the instant barrage of non-sequitur, unsupported claims, and belittling each time someone dares to voice any kind of criticism.
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

trejan
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:19 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 pm
The only "fault" is see, is that perhaps they should just have copied the old primitive boot code to the EEPROM for the time being.
Ehh. I don't see that being a realistic option as you have to use the USB-C port for that. I'd expect there to be far more complaining and potential disasters from forcing people to power the Pi via the GPIO header just so they can USB boot. Your boot drive would also be limited to USB 2.0 speeds as well.

The main USB ports need a driver for the PCIe controller inside the SoC and a driver for XHCI USB controller. The PCIe controller appears in memory at a very high address as well which likely makes it annoying to access from the VPU. We've already seen some weirdness about the VLI USB controller which needed to be worked around so it isn't a simple task.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:22 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 pm
Don't nobody understand that the NEW USB bootloader is conceptually much more complex than the extremely simple, boot from the first blockdevice you find minimalistic boot code built into the PI3+ which had only a few hundred bytes of code.

I do! :D

W. H. Heydt
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:13 pm

RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:22 pm
mahjongg wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 pm
Don't nobody understand that the NEW USB bootloader is conceptually much more complex than the extremely simple, boot from the first blockdevice you find minimalistic boot code built into the PI3+ which had only a few hundred bytes of code.

I do! :D
So do I...which is why my counsel on the issue is: patience. I'd much rather see it done right than done soon. I also consider the EEPROM system to have the advantage that, should people find problems (such as SATA bridges that don't play nice), there will be hope for fixes down the road.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:18 pm

Remember that the Pi4 was not supposed to be released until "sometime in 2020" (based on comments from RPF/RPT officials). Would you rather wait another year, or have it now to play with, without USB boot?

I know there are some over-dramatic folks here who will say, "I'd rather wait, because it's useless junk without it" or other such nonsense, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority would rather have it now and wait for a couple of extra features.

To those who answer, I'd rather wait, I say, why didn't you?

You could have waited, but you rushed out and bought one without doing any research at all, and now you're complaining that some feature you deem as absolutely critical (for you) is not supported. FYI: No USB boot was confirmed in the release blog post comments on launch day.
dom says: 24th Jun 2019 at 11:48 am
USB and network booting are not ready today but will come.
(The SPI boot eprom means new boot modes can be added without an sdcard inserted, or hardware updates).

So why didn't you wait, or at the very least confirm your "critical" feature was working properly before you bought an early release product with an early release OS (Debian Buster was not stable on launch day, and it was a new OS version and not just a matter of a firmware update like it was with the 3B+)? This is not anything new. Every time a new model comes out there are growing pains. There was loads of drama when the 3B+ was released, and that was a relatively minor upgrade compared to the Pi4.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:31 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:13 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:22 pm
mahjongg wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 pm
Don't nobody understand that the NEW USB bootloader is conceptually much more complex than the extremely simple, boot from the first blockdevice you find minimalistic boot code built into the PI3+ which had only a few hundred bytes of code.

I do! :D
So do I...which is why my counsel on the issue is: patience. I'd much rather see it done right than done soon. I also consider the EEPROM system to have the advantage that, should people find problems (such as SATA bridges that don't play nice), there will be hope for fixes down the road.

You're still missing the point. There's absolutely no reason to avoid booting via an SD card in the interim. Why should users wait patiently for an EEPROM update when they can painlessly run Raspbian on a USB device now with no penalty involved? When the EEPROM is capable of booting directly, simply pull out the SD card.

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mahjongg
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:50 pm

+1

W. H. Heydt
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:48 pm

RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:31 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:13 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:22 pm


I do! :D
So do I...which is why my counsel on the issue is: patience. I'd much rather see it done right than done soon. I also consider the EEPROM system to have the advantage that, should people find problems (such as SATA bridges that don't play nice), there will be hope for fixes down the road.

You're still missing the point. There's absolutely no reason to avoid booting via an SD card in the interim. Why should users wait patiently for an EEPROM update when they can painlessly run Raspbian on a USB device now with no penalty involved? When the EEPROM is capable of booting directly, simply pull out the SD card.
Why do you keep beating the dead horse? If people want to use a hybrid boot, they can do so without asking when the full boot from USB will be implemented. If they don't want to use a hybrid boot (for *whatever* reason), they can wait patiently or they can ask when it will happen. Naturally, the correct answer is "when it's ready." In the mean time telling people to use hybrid boot (which one presumes those asking know about) is not answering the question. I know you're a big fan of hybrid booting. You bring it up every time there is a discussion about USB boot and you always point to the thread in which you put forth your own shell script for setting it up. However, not everyone is totally enamored of hybrid booting.

There are uses for which I would prefer to use actual boot from USB. For those uses, I have no problems waiting. For other uses, SD card boot is fine. If I have a use for which I want to use a hybrid boot, I will. In the mean time, I have 2 Pi4B2 boards set up and running from SD cards for use at an upcoming event, and I'm happy to have them. I'm not going to regress my Pi3B+ and PiDrive to a hybrid boot, so updating that to a Pi4B4 gets to wait for full USB boot. If it doesn't happen for 6 months or a year, that's all fine, but that system *will* wait for the real thing.

RonR
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:42 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:48 pm
I know you're a big fan of hybrid booting. You bring it up every time there is a discussion about USB boot and you always point to the thread in which you put forth your own shell script for setting it up. However, not everyone is totally enamored of hybrid booting.

I am NOT a big fan of booting via an SD card. When I got my first Raspberry Pi 1 about 6 years ago, there was no other option for running Raspbian on USB devices. When I saw how much faster things ran on a USB 3 flash drive and how much more convenient it was to deal with USB 3 flash drives instead of slow SD cards, it was no-brainer. Nothing changed when I moved to the Raspberry Pi 2. When I moved to the Raspberry Pi 3 and then the 3B+, I found the added USB boot capabilities to be too limited and too fragile to use (very understandable due to the limited resources available). I created the usb-boot script simply to aid those who aren't as familiar with Linux as you and have been struggling with some of the monstrous and convoluted tutorials that exist.

I hope the Raspberry Pi 4 ultimately has a very capable bootloader with all the flexibility one might hope for, at which point the SD card and the usb-boot script will no longer be needed to run Raspbian on USB devices with the Raspberry Pi 4. Until then, nothing has changed.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:34 am

Remember that the Pi4 was not supposed to be released until "sometime in 2020" (based on comments from RPF/RPT officials). Would you rather wait another year, or have it now to play with, without USB boot?
Yep, I'd have waited. :lol:

If they had been honest, & said that they hadn't got the software drivers sorted out, & that EDID & USB booting was non functional at present, I for one, would not have bothered to buy it when it was released early,

I assumed, incorrectly, that it was a complete product, only to be continually fobbed off with excuses on the forum here about the lack of progress on the software drivers so neccessary for it's advertised use.....especially as they now suggest it is a desktop computer! :o

All my desktop computers have had hard drives with the operating system on them, & can boot from USB, so it couldn't have come as a a surprise that some people are annoyed that USB booting isn't available yet. :?

I, for one, hate those terrible, tiny, awkward to handle, micro SD cards - that's why I need USB booting! 8-)

Yes, it'll eventually work, but quit harping on about us the people who are awaiting working software drivers so that we can use our new RPi4B as we want to. :roll:

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PeterO
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:57 am

jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:18 pm
PeterO wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:01 pm
So I ask a slightly different question. Why do you think you know RPT/RPF business better than all the RPT/RPF people ? (because that's what you are claiming!)
Not sure that's was ever my claim (though I suppose that was the conclusion you jumped on).
What other conclusion is there ? You are questioning a decision made by RPT, one assumes because you think they got it wrong and you have the right answer.... :?:
How many have posted here about the lack of network boot?
And how many people that RPT have asked have said that it is more important than USB booting. Only RPT know the answer to that... You've made the common mistake of assuming that the people who post on these forums are in any way representative of the wider PI user population or customer base.
I have over a dozen Pi, half of them in active 24/7 duty. Probably the best low-cost embedded platform there is. I'm am however fascinated by the instant barrage of non-sequitur, unsupported claims, and belittling each time someone dares to voice any kind of criticism.
But it's criticism from a non-representative point of view, that's the problem. It's just one persons opinion biased by their own personal needs. It's the same reason why the "The Pi5 need a XYZ" threads will be locked or deleted.
PeterO
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Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

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thagrol
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:04 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:48 pm
thagrol wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:31 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:18 pm

Only if one is satisfied with a hybrid boot (and that has already be mentioned in this thread). If one actually wants "USB boot", then waiting is in order.
You're getting overly hung up on the connection layer with the HDD on this.
I would hope that anyone asking for USB boot is already aware of how to do a hybrid boot, and if they are, then asking for USB boot would indicate that the hybrid version isn't what they're asking about.
I doubt very much that this is the case. My suspicion is that for the vast majority of Pi users their only linux experience is with raspbian configured as provided by the RPF.

These folks will be used to the write the image to USB HDD/flash instead of to SD card and it will just boot approach as with the 3B/3B+. They'll probably have never done a linux install on an intel based PC and consequently have no idea about partitioning. And don't forget that the majority of PC users never have to install the OS or partition any drives - PCs come with the OS pre-installed and most (all?) external drives (whether SD, flash or HDD) come pre-formatted.
Personally, I prefer the non-hybrid solution, but if the hybrid version is all there is, then I have no qualms about using it. And, indeed, I have done so with a CM1 and a Pi3B, the latter before the non-hybrid version was available. As it is, the Pi3B I did that with was upgraded to a full USB boot...when it became available and that Pi has since be replaced with a Pi3B+. If I upgrade the Pi3B+ to a Pi4B (which I intend to to...eventually), having to use hybrid boot would be a step backwards. I'd prefer to wait for the full USB boot to implemented.
I'll say it again: it's not a "hybrid boot" it's a normal boot that just happens to have seperate boot and root partitions that just happen to be on different physical devices.
So...as I've already said, if the hybrid boot is all anyone wanted, this thread wouldn't exist.
I disagree. This thread exists because inexperienced linux users aren't aware of how the boot process works and what the alternatives to that provided by "standard" raspbian images are.

Sure, pure USB boot would be handy but it is by no means essential. Hell, I've got pre 3B Pi booting over LAN and USB with SD cards containing nothing but bootcode.bin - I still don't consider that an issue or a "hybrid boot".

It strikes me that this is one area the RPF have dug themselves a hole by simplifying the USB install the way they did.

As has been stated, the 4B boot loader is bigger and more complex than previous ones. Supporting USB boot requires much more than just a USB mass storage driver in the firmware. There's obviously limited developer (and tester) time and space in the EEPROM for this, and really USB boot is only necessary if you're unwilling or unable to learn a little more about the linux boot process and partitioning.
This space unintentionally left blank.

hippy
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:52 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:18 pm
You could have waited, but you rushed out and bought one without doing any research at all, and now you're complaining that some feature you deem as absolutely critical (for you) is not supported. FYI: No USB boot was confirmed in the release blog post comments on launch day.
"In the release blog post comments" - And only in the comments, it wasn't and isn't mentioned in the announcement itself and I don't see it mentioned in any other official Pi 4B product pages. True, it doesn't say it can do USB or PXE booting either, but it is reasonable to expect it has the same and/or better capabilities than the 3B+ it follows.

I don't see how you can fairly accuse anyone of buying a 4B "without doing any research at all". You don't know what research they did. Perhaps they read the blog post in the hours before the comment was added, or only read official and other pages which don't mention the lack of USB booting.

I agree; it's not a big issue, and better the 4B is here now and not USB booting than delaying launch until it could. But let's not indulge in victim blaming when what is bought doesn't match expectations because the official posts neglected or chose not to mention the issue.

bjtheone
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:03 pm

hippy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:52 am
I agree; it's not a big issue, and better the 4B is here now and not USB booting than delaying launch until it could. But let's not indulge in victim blaming when what is bought doesn't match expectations because the official posts neglected or chose not to mention the issue.
That is true if you actually have a real use case for true USB boot. Otherwise it is mostly whining and trolling. So far I have heard two sane reasons (corporate setting that mandates same setup/support model and requiring the SD slot to be open for sneaker netting). Features change all the time and blindly expecting that new models will always have a superset is going to lead to a world of hurt.

Setting it up is super simple
1) install rsync
2) connect USB mounted storage
3) tmp mount storage
4) rsync contents
5) edit cmdline.txt
6) edit fstab
7) reboot

Don't even need to deal with fancy partitioning unless you want to slice up your storage and if you know how to do that then you know that "hybrid" boot gets you all the bloody advantages of USB boot and are not complaining about it unless you are just trying to stir things up.

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PeterO
Posts: 4942
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:15 pm

hippy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:52 am
True, it doesn't say it can do USB or PXE booting either, but it is reasonable to expect it has the same and/or better capabilities than the 3B+ it follows.
You are ignoring all the other better capabilities brought by the new hardware......
The earlier models didn't all have USB or netboot from launch. And since the 4B has so much new hardware/firmware/software and considering that the hardware was ready earlier than expected, it's reasonable to expect that some capabilities may not be ready at launch as the software guys probably thought they would have another 6-12 months to get them all working .

To quote Gene Krantz "OK everybody lets hang tight and look for the landing radar" 8-)

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

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