thatchunkylad198966
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When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 am

When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?
So I can't be the only one wanting this. :mrgreen:
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

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PeterO
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:12 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 am
When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?
So I can't be the only one wanting this. :mrgreen:
The rest of us have more patience though ! 8-)
PeterO
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drgeoff
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:13 am

When it is ready.

thatchunkylad198966
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:14 am

So no ETA? that's all I'm basically asking.
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

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rpdom
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:18 am

No ETA.

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B.Goode
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:21 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:14 am
So no ETA? that's all I'm basically asking.

Given that so many people are apparently desperate for this feature, I imagine that if the situation had changed in the last 10 days there would have been a prominent announcement...

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=243629&p=1515270&h ... c#p1514890


Perhaps you'd like a 'bot that routinely posts a message saying "No, nothing new to report... " ?

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:25 am

I think I read somewhere on here that it would be attended to after net boot, in approximately two months, give or take.

(I've been awaiting it ever since the release of the RPi4B - mine is sitting back in its box until EDID & USB3 booting is sorted out - it's how I use my RPi.)

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:53 am

those desperate may want to pour in substantial financial investment to motivate the software developers....

however if you're not up to it then you'll have just to wait patiently like the rest of us.....
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HawaiianPi
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:02 am

It's simple enough to have /boot on SD card and / (the rootfs) on a USB drive, and that works fine for now (if you really can't wait).

That's how my 4B2 is configured at the moment. I swapped it for my Pi 3B in this case, and it's been working great since I received it.
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thatchunkylad198966
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:07 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:02 am
It's simple enough to have /boot on SD card and / (the rootfs) on a USB drive, and that works fine for now (if you really can't wait).

That's how my 4B2 is configured at the moment. I swapped it for my Pi 3B in this case, and it's been working great since I received it.
Yeah well when I tried that, my Pi 4 4GB wouldn't boot and I spent hours on IRC with the help of #raspberrypi and I kept on getting a kernel panic. no matter what I tried. /boot was on the SDCARD and /rootfs was on my USB3 SSD via USB3 to SATA.
I read on here (can't find it right now) that if I would've plugged the USB3 HDD into the USB2 slot, it would've booted.

Think I'll pass and wait.
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:07 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:07 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:02 am
It's simple enough to have /boot on SD card and / (the rootfs) on a USB drive, and that works fine for now (if you really can't wait).

That's how my 4B2 is configured at the moment. I swapped it for my Pi 3B in this case, and it's been working great since I received it.
Yeah well when I tried that, my Pi 4 4GB wouldn't boot and I spent hours on IRC with the help of #raspberrypi and I kept on getting a kernel panic. no matter what I tried. /boot was on the SDCARD and /rootfs was on my USB3 SSD via USB3 to SATA.
I read on here (can't find it right now) that if I would've plugged the USB3 HDD into the USB2 slot, it would've booted.

Think I'll pass and wait.
The issues are likely to do with the particular USB3 to SATA interface you have (apparently some chipsets do not play well with the the Pi, not sure if it is just isolated to the USB3 interface though). There have been reports that updating the firmware on the USB/SATA interface module has resolved the issue for some people.

The actual process to setup boot from SD and run from USB connected storage is literally one rsync command and editing 2 files. If you have an issue with the USB to SATA interface you are using, getting boot from USB support in the firmware on the PI is not going to magically resolve this. I agree from a purist point of view, the current solution is not boot from USB, and I do still need the SD card installed, but nothing is getting written to the SD and it provides the same performance improvement so I think that prioritizing "real" issues makes sense.

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clicky
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:11 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:07 pm
The actual process to setup boot from SD and run from USB connected storage is literally one rsync command and editing 2 files. If you have an issue with the USB to SATA interface you are using, getting boot from USB support in the firmware on the PI is not going to magically resolve this. I agree from a purist point of view, the current solution is not boot from USB, and I do still need the SD card installed, but nothing is getting written to the SD and it provides the same performance improvement so I think that prioritizing "real" issues makes sense.
+1

Also, booting normal Raspbian (or such) from SD card and setting up USB storage first is good first step anyway. If that works, I really cannot see what is different from there to setting root (/) on that storage device and continue boot from /boot partition on SD card to USB root...

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm

I do question prioritizing network boot over USB boot though. I can only guess at the rationale but it seems a swing towards catering to commercial interests rather than the needs of your 'average user'?
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

trejan
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:44 pm

jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm
I do question prioritizing network boot over USB boot though.
IIRC it is because network boot is easier/quicker to implement. USB boot needs a lot more new code to be added and testing is more complicated.

The "average user" is going to be using a micro SD card.
Last edited by trejan on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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rpdom
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:44 pm

jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm
I do question prioritizing network boot over USB boot though. I can only guess at the rationale but it seems a swing towards catering to commercial interests rather than the needs of your 'average user'?
Pi-net is quite popular in education, which is the primary target usage for the Pi. It may not be where most of the sales go, but it is the whole idea behind the Pi and what it stands for.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:56 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 am
When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Right now: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy

No complicated steps involved or additional tools required.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:14 pm

jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm
I do question prioritizing network boot over USB boot though. I can only guess at the rationale but it seems a swing towards catering to commercial interests rather than the needs of your 'average user'?
It's more likely catering to educational needs, which is--after all--the primary goal of the RPF.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:18 pm

RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:56 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 am
When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Right now: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy

No complicated steps involved or additional tools required.
Only if one is satisfied with a hybrid boot (and that has already be mentioned in this thread). If one actually wants "USB boot", then waiting is in order.

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PeterO
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:21 pm

jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm
I do question prioritizing network boot over USB boot though. I can only guess at the rationale but it seems a swing towards catering to commercial interests rather than the needs of your 'average user'?
Between you and all the RPT/RPF people, which do you think knows their business best ? Hint: It's not you :roll:
PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

RonR
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:48 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:18 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:56 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 am
When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Right now: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy

No complicated steps involved or additional tools required.
Only if one is satisfied with a hybrid boot (and that has already be mentioned in this thread). If one actually wants "USB boot", then waiting is in order.

I'm sure you understand quite well that the end result is 100% the same. Whether the EEPROM loads the Raspbian kernel directly from a USB device's BOOT partition or from an SD card's BOOT partition is a matter of maybe a second. After that, everything is the same and the SD card is no longer used.

If it's so important to you that your SD card socket remain empty, then by all means wait for updated EEPROM code. My guess is that very few see any distinction or care and would rather get on with running Raspbian from a much faster/larger USB device.

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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:54 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:21 pm
jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm
I do question prioritizing network boot over USB boot though. I can only guess at the rationale but it seems a swing towards catering to commercial interests rather than the needs of your 'average user'?
Between you and all the RPT/RPF people, which do you think knows their business best ? Hint: It's not you :roll:
PeterO
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:55 pm

RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:48 pm
If it's so important to you that your SD card socket remain empty, then by all means wait for updated EEPROM code. My guess is that very few see any distinction or care and would rather get on with running Raspbian from a much faster/larger USB device.
If people didn't care about the distinction, this thread would not exist.

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PeterO
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:01 pm

jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:54 pm
PeterO wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:21 pm
jcyr wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm
I do question prioritizing network boot over USB boot though. I can only guess at the rationale but it seems a swing towards catering to commercial interests rather than the needs of your 'average user'?
Between you and all the RPT/RPF people, which do you think knows their business best ? Hint: It's not you :roll:
PeterO
Sarcasm: Hostility disguised as humor. Gotta love it!
No sarcasm at all ! It's amazing how often people come here and claim that their particular requirements are the most important and that RPT should be building what ever it is that they need. Just look at all the "Pi4 must have a XYZ" threads and see how many of them have been locked.

So I ask a slightly different question. Why do you think you know RPT/RPF business better than all the RPT/RPF people ? (because that's what you are claiming!)

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

RonR
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:23 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:55 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:48 pm
If it's so important to you that your SD card socket remain empty, then by all means wait for updated EEPROM code. My guess is that very few see any distinction or care and would rather get on with running Raspbian from a much faster/larger USB device.
If people didn't care about the distinction, this thread would not exist.

But this thread wasn't started over caring about any distinction:
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 am
When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?
So I can't be the only one wanting this. :mrgreen:

It appears you're the only one making a big deal out of a virtually meaningless distinction.

I suspect the RPF engineers also see it as a virtually meaningless distinction and that's one reason it's low on their priority list.

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thagrol
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Re: When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:31 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:18 pm
RonR wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:56 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 am
When can we expect USB boot for the Pi 4?

Right now: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy

No complicated steps involved or additional tools required.
Only if one is satisfied with a hybrid boot (and that has already be mentioned in this thread). If one actually wants "USB boot", then waiting is in order.
You're getting overly hung up on the connection layer with the HDD on this.

The method proposed by several of us on here for having /boot and / on a seperate block devices (which may be a USB connected HDD, a seperate partition on the same SD card, NFS, etc...) is straight forward, well know and incredibly main stream. For all practical purposes when using seperate boot and root partitions having them on different devices connected in different ways makes no difference. There's no requirement that they be on the same HDD/SD card/etc and the technology used to connect the devices is not required to be the same either.

Boot your linux PC from a floppy with root on a HDD? Sure. Boot from a CD/DVD with root loaded in to a RAM file system? Yep. Boot on an IDE device with root on SATA? Not a problem. Have a single partition containing everything including boot and root? you can do that too.

By refering to the "/boot on SD, root on USB" appraoch as "hybrid boot" you're making a mountain out of a molehill and assuming this method of partitioning is both obscure and specific only to the 4B. it's neither.

I can see where someone might get hung up on this (especially if the only linux they've ever used is raspbian), but really there's no need to.

Oh, and if your USB 3 to SATA adaptor is flaky when not used as the boot device the odds are it'll still be flaky when used for booting. there's only so much that can be done adnc an fit into the 4B's firmware.

AIUI the problem is with some UAS enabled devices. Switching to a USB two port isn't likely to help as those deviec will still try to use UAS.
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