jamesh
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 am

cspan wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:03 pm
jamesh wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:24 am
The 4GB model is proving very popular, more so than we expected. The 2GB is the sweet spot for desktop. Or so we thought...
Just curious why you thought that ... I'm with HawaiianPi and maybe some others in thinking that the model with 4 GB RAM would be the sweet spot for desktop performance (from my POV, because of what the web has become ... ugh). Were you by chance thinking of price/performance ratio? That's about the only reason I can think of a different sweet spot, particularly if the performance in question did not hinge on the browsing or streaming experience.
If you do typical desktop tasks, you rarely go over 2GB requirements, hence us thinking that would be best at that RAM point. Big compiles and hardcore users might need the 4GB.

And to answer some other questions that have come up above.

Firmware updates happen fairly often. You can get bleeding edge using rpi-update, but we recommend waiting for the official releases in apt, they are less frequent although there has already been one to deal with post launch issues that escaped our beta testing. USB boot will follow PXE boot, sometimes between 1 and 4 months I suspect. Needs quite a lot of work to add and test a USB stack. The fix for USB-C power cables will probably take a month or two or three to flush through the system - need to use up stocks of existing PCB's.
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aBUGSworstnightmare
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 am
The fix for USB-C power cables will probably take a month or two or three to flush through the system - need to use up stocks of existing PCB's.
so there will be a hardware fix for this issue? Will the foundation grant FOC power supplies to those of use affected by this design flaw?

jamesh
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:12 pm

aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 am
The fix for USB-C power cables will probably take a month or two or three to flush through the system - need to use up stocks of existing PCB's.
so there will be a hardware fix for this issue? Will the foundation grant FOC power supplies to those of use affected by this design flaw?
No! Why on earth would we? It works fine with most power supplies, and there are easy workarounds. if you are unhappy with that situation, I suggest returning the Pi4.
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:28 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 am
If you do typical desktop tasks, you rarely go over 2GB requirements, hence us thinking that would be best at that RAM point.
I see. A rational approach to the question... Big mistake indeed :D
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:08 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 am


If you do typical desktop tasks, you rarely go over 2GB requirements, hence us thinking that would be best at that RAM point. Big compiles and hardcore users might need the 4GB.
I don't consider myself a hardcore user, but I would happily buy a Pi with more than 4 GB.

For example, on a 1 GB Pi 3 browsers rarely use more than ~700 MB plus some VM, but this is misleading. They seem to use a strategy of never requesting more than a certain high percentage of the computer's RAM even though they could make use of more. Ask among users with 16 GB+ and they will tell you horror stories of browsers shamelessly grabbing 10 GB or more and rarely giving it back. They're either hoarding it (no really, Mozilla once admitted doing that), or can't free complete memory pages because of their not so sophisticated allocation strategies.

Firefox is about to encourage users to have more than four user content processes i.e. eight or so. That alone can add 800 MB.

Other use cases are e.g. editing medium size pictures, certain games and so on. My point being, just because you don't see much RAM use on existing Pi models doesn't mean more RAM would be useless. Thinking ahead, RAM usage will only increase because of lazy programmers. As they said in the old days: "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away". And of course there are an increasing number of irrational 64 bit aficionados who think they just have to use Redis.

I already said it shortly after the launch: There will be those who want 4GB+ and those who never talk to their Pi except over SSH. You could have omitted the 2 GB version and people wouldn't have missed it.

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hardwaremack-orginal
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:26 pm

4 gigs of ram is sickness :-)
Especially for guys like us, and the OSes we run.

my 2gb PI4B is fantastic!

There are folks out there that would snicker at the thought of running a computer with ONLY 4gb of ram.

some of these types in facbook groups lol....
Arm chair know-it-all's
"16gb / 32gb ram is sufficient for a PROPER workstation."

travisfarmer
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:41 pm

my windows laptop has 16GB, but i use it for CAD, for my CNC router (running LinuxCNC). and it is barely enough for CAD work.
My 3 servers run quite a bit of ram, and likely don't use all of it, but i like having it there, just in case.

the Rpi4B i ordered has 4GB, because if i am to drive a little sports car, i don't want a lawnmower engine under the hood. ;) :lol:
but seriously, i just wanted the bigger one. :D

~Travis
Most of my electronics/programming experience is in Arduino, but i am learning Rpi to broaden my projects capabilities.

jamesh
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:37 pm

We have some machines in the server room with 128GB RAM IIRC, might be more. And some software uses it all....

But they are not desktops. As I said, in our testing, using Chromium for standard browser tasks, we rarely got over 2GB.
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:49 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:37 pm
We have some machines in the server room with 128GB RAM IIRC, might be more. And some software uses it all....
true, but mine are merely hobby servers. webserver, VoIP server, and a backup server. nothing enterprise level.
But they are not desktops. As I said, in our testing, using Chromium for standard browser tasks, we rarely got over 2GB.
agreed, but if you rarely got over 2GB, then why make a 4GB model, except for folks like me that like to "go big", simply in case we need it. ;) (that, and the hardcore gamers, i suppose...)

~Travis
Most of my electronics/programming experience is in Arduino, but i am learning Rpi to broaden my projects capabilities.

JimmyPP
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:10 am

I ordered a 4GB from adafruit on july 12, it shipped today(july 15), UPS says it will be here july 18.

I think I got one of the last few 4GB's from them, I went back to read the specs again about 5 minutes after I placed the order, and it said out of stock... I was worried all weekend that I missed it and got on the back order list, or it would just be refunded.

Sad thing is, my case/card reader/sd cards/hdmi cord were all free next day shipping on Amazon, so I just get to stare at the empty pi case sitting on my desk until thursday :|

drllama
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:45 am

Heh, I'm going with 4Gb for all I get for one simple reason: There's no such thing as too much RAM (take that Bill Gates!)

Seriously though, in my experience, unless you are seriously cash constrained, or have an embedded application where you know precisely the memory requirements, more memory translates into better performance. Whether that's more memory for use by running programs, or more memory being used as buffer cache.

I got my first RPi4 4Gb from CanaKit today, got it slotted into my bramble already and just waiting to see how the performance compares to the 3B+s already in the bramble.

Cheers!
Bruce.

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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am

Just got notice from CanaKit, my Rpi4B4 Complete Starter Kit is shipping, and should be delivered in about 3 days. :D it was ordered June 1st. it almost wasn't... my bank detected the Canada order on my card as fraud, but they called me, and i confirmed it was me.

~Travis
Most of my electronics/programming experience is in Arduino, but i am learning Rpi to broaden my projects capabilities.

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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:34 am

travisfarmer wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am
it was ordered June 1st.
How did you know about the Pi4B a month before it was announced?
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travisfarmer
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:53 am

davidcoton wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:34 am
travisfarmer wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am
it was ordered June 1st.
How did you know about the Pi4B a month before it was announced?
Correction: July 1st. sorry about that. :lol:

~Travis
Most of my electronics/programming experience is in Arduino, but i am learning Rpi to broaden my projects capabilities.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:36 pm

PiShop.us has 2GB back in stock. Got mine from them and they shipped fast.
https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry ... del-b-2gb/
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:17 pm

travisfarmer wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am
Just got notice from CanaKit, my Rpi4B4 Complete Starter Kit is shipping, and should be delivered in about 3 days. :D it was ordered June 1st. it almost wasn't... my bank detected the Canada order on my card as fraud, but they called me, and i confirmed it was me.

~Travis
I am glad you are getting your order now. What I don't understand is why CanaKit shows August 15 for the Rpi4B 4GB Complete Starter Kit. I am still waiting for the order for the Rpi4B 4GB Starter Kit I placed on June 24th.

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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:20 pm

MisterEd wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:17 pm
travisfarmer wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am
Just got notice from CanaKit, my Rpi4B4 Complete Starter Kit is shipping, and should be delivered in about 3 days. :D it was ordered June 1st. it almost wasn't... my bank detected the Canada order on my card as fraud, but they called me, and i confirmed it was me.

~Travis
I am glad you are getting your order now. What I don't understand is why CanaKit shows August 15 for the Rpi4B 4GB Complete Starter Kit. I am still waiting for the order for the Rpi4B 4GB Starter Kit I placed on June 24th.
pretty sure that estimate doesn't include orders already placed. just orders placed at that time.

~Travis
Most of my electronics/programming experience is in Arduino, but i am learning Rpi to broaden my projects capabilities.

drllama
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:02 pm

I'm waiting on an order from CanaKit which includes the starter kit as well.

From an email exchange I had with them on Monday, it sounds like they're currently waiting on the cases for the kits.

Cheers,
Bruce.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:10 pm

MisterEd wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:17 pm
I am glad you are getting your order now. What I don't understand is why CanaKit shows August 15 for the Rpi4B 4GB Complete Starter Kit. I am still waiting for the order for the Rpi4B 4GB Starter Kit I placed on June 24th.
Welcome to the club. I've lost count of how many times the estimated ship date on my June 24 order from Newark has been pushed back. I now firmly believe that sellers haven't a clue when they will actually ship, and they're just pulling estimated ship dates out of their rear ends.

2GB models seem to be relatively easy to find, so if you really want one soon, get one of those. My 2GB works great with the old 2.5A Pi3 PSU and a USB-C adapter (even with 2 SSDs connected to the USB 3.0 ports).

The thing that really irks me about Newark is, had I known their ship dates were fictional, I would not have ordered from them and looked elsewhere. I've seen 4GB models in stock at UK dealers, but I thought, well, my Newark order will ship in a few days, and then my ship date got pushed back (again and again).
drllama wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:02 pm
From an email exchange I had with them on Monday, it sounds like they're currently waiting on the cases for the kits.
Interesting, because it seems like bundled kits usually ship faster than bare boards. Not always the case, I guess (or in this case, I guess it actually was the case ;) ).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

MisterEd
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:19 pm

drllama wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:02 pm
I'm waiting on an order from CanaKit which includes the starter kit as well.

From an email exchange I had with them on Monday, it sounds like they're currently waiting on the cases for the kits.

Cheers,
Bruce.
I guess that explains it. The Starter Kit comes with a "Premium Black Case" while the Complete Starter Kit comes with an "Official Case". Please post if your order is shipped on Friday July 19th as indicated for all regular Starter Kits.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:29 pm

Looks like PiHut has 4GB in stock again. If you don't mind getting reamed by their price gouging (nearly US $70 for the bare board), you can get one there now (and yea, I know about VAT, but that should be removed for orders to the USA, and PiHut doesn't do that, while Pimoroni does).

So, 2GB model available at PiShop.us (for the normal $45 price), and 4GB model available at PiHut in the UK (at inflated price).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:34 pm

And--apropos of "When do things arrive?"--I got a shipping notice today that the CM3L+ I ordered on 6 June should arrive tomorrow, 17 July. It's coming along with some other bits and pieces, like a black RPF keyboard, a PoE HAT, a couple of A+ cases, and a couple of 2.5A RPF PSUs...all current stuff...when I placed the order.

bat0nas
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:30 am

Hi all.

I am having trouble finding the 4gb version in EU.
What online shop have them available to order? Or at least pre order with a known delivery date other than "September"?

Thanks!

travisfarmer
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:12 am

so, i am excited that my Rpi4B4 is coming tomorrow. :D
the problem is, i don't have any available monitors... i kind of forgot that need when placing the order. :lol:

~Travis
Most of my electronics/programming experience is in Arduino, but i am learning Rpi to broaden my projects capabilities.

jamesh
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Re: When are people in the U.S. getting their Pi 4s?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:27 am

bat0nas wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:30 am
Hi all.

I am having trouble finding the 4gb version in EU.
What online shop have them available to order? Or at least pre order with a known delivery date other than "September"?

Thanks!
We are making the 4GB as fast as we can, but demand is outstripping supply, so you might have to wait a bit. Just keep checking the reseller links on the front page of the website.
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