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RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:20 pm
by lukas1000
Hi

Today I got my new RP4 from a local distributor.

Unfortunately I don't see any ESD protection for the PCB.
The RP4 is just packed into the small carton box, no ESD bag.
The carton doesn't look conductive but I haven't measured it.
Further the box can be opened a little without breaking the seal, it is possible to touch the PCB from outside.

My box looks exactly like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTFb2f3BTYs

The header pins are directly touching the inner side of the box, so there is only 1mm paper/air isolation to the outer side of the box.
If this is the original packaging then this is totally professional and not the quality I would expect.

I really think about sending it back, because 60€ and my time to setup some projects is to much effort if it will fail soon.

I already bought some RP clones in the past, all of them where packed more professional.

Thanks

br lukas

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:19 pm
by jamesh
That looks like the right packaging. It uses a specially conductive material to prevent ESD damage. Keeps the costs down. We sell a lot of Pi's (over 25 million so far), if the packaging was causing a problem I suspect we would know about it.

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:22 pm
by hardwaremack-orginal
poster is this your YouTube channel? Shameless plug?

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:25 pm
by jdb
The boxes have a conductive coating. We do this to remove the plastic ESD baggie that all previous models have shipped in - which usually ends up in landfill as it's unrecycleable :(

Also your fears about ESD are unfounded - all of the interfaces are safe against 2kV HBM discharges - which includes the GPIO pins. If the Pi wasn't ESD safe it'd be pretty crap in a classroom or domestic environment.

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:30 pm
by hardwaremack-orginal
the cardboard does appear to have a yellowish coating through the box material.

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:25 pm
by Imperf3kt
jdb wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:25 pm
ESD baggie that all previous models have shipped in - which usually ends up in landfill as it's unrecycleable :(
Not quite fully true.

I have a box full of ESD bags, some dating back to the 80s that don't even look like ESD protective bags.
I reuse mine for all sorts of electronic bits and pieces, they certainly are recyclable, just not in the common sense of the word.


(also, didn't the Pi3b+ come on a card instead of in a pouch?)

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:47 am
by lukas1000
Hi

Thanks for all your answers.

The box didn't looked like it is covered by a conductive material, but if it is ESD conform than this is the best looking ESD box i have seen so far :-)
But I can't believe that the box is equal to a type S bag, because I can open the box really wide to be able to touch the PCB with my fingers.
If the box is really that safe it would be a good idea to add an ESD symbol on the box.

I'm not sure if its a good argument that all GPIO are 2kV ESD safe.
2kV is not that much. Are all touchable PCB wires to the flash / ram / controllers and other active components are 2kV safe?
A simple packaging tape can cause more than 10kV easily and this will be placed just 2mm away on the other carton side.
An active PCB will never be classroom save without a housing or coating.

Ignoring ESD is not professional, it just a stupid way to invest a lot of time to find strange errors.

The web is full of people having troubles with there PIs. But most of them do not know was ESD is and they do not take care on ESD.
So I'm not wondering that only a few people are claiming the missing ESD bag. But I do, because I prefer to use reliable HW.

---
No this is not my yt channel, this was just the first picture of the box I found...
I don't think they guy in the videos knows a lot about ESD, he is not using any ESD equipment :-)

br Lukas

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:59 am
by jamesh
I can ASSURE you without any shadow of a doubt, that the boxes used for Raspberry Pi's are perfectly suitable for the job and provide perfectly fine ESD protection.

It's cheaper and MUCH better for the environment to use this scheme than use antistatic bags.

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:03 pm
by achrn
lukas1000 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:47 am
Ignoring ESD is not professional, it just a stupid way to invest a lot of time to find strange errors.
So, when you read "It uses a specially conductive material to prevent ESD damage" and "The boxes have a conductive coating", you understood that to mean "we just ignored ESD"?

Presumably you've tested the packaging and determined that the answers you'vbe been given are lies? Can you share those results?

I would assume that if Pis are suffering damage in transit then the RPF would revise the packaging to one that doesn't cost them replacing damaged units. The fact that they've shipped a very large number in this way (they've been without an additional bag for some time before the Pi4) suggests to me that the packaging is fit for purpose. If it wasn't fit for purpose, it would cost the RPF or their distributors money and they would fix it, wouldn't they?

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:48 pm
by rpdom
For confirmation I've just put a test meter across the card supplied in the Pi 4 box and also the inside of the box itself and can confirm that it is at least as conductive as the plastic bags were.

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:21 pm
by W. H. Heydt
Mine came with a card between the board and the instruction sheet. Give past packaging practices, I presumed that that is an anti-static card. It doubles as a quick "do and don't" reminder with half a dozen line images, each with a check or an X by it, so (assuming it's ESD protection) it does double duty.

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:02 pm
by hardwaremack-orginal
i ripped the PI4B box and tasted it... i can confirm that its quite tasty!

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:52 pm
by davidcoton
hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:02 pm
i ripped the PI4B box and tasted it... i can confirm that its quite tasty!
Raspberry?

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:01 pm
by Andyroo
I never thought about ESD for my first couple of Pi boards - handed them around, dropped one, stuck it on a tray and the table top etc.

The main one I use for playing with is sat on top of an anti-static bag or sheet of paper (as it lives on a table with dress making pins on it :o ) and gets moved around a great deal.

Sorry - not fried one yet - must try harder...

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:03 pm
by W. H. Heydt
Andyroo wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:01 pm
I never thought about ESD for my first couple of Pi boards - handed them around, dropped one, stuck it on a tray and the table top etc.

The main one I use for playing with is sat on top of an anti-static bag or sheet of paper (as it lives on a table with dress making pins on it :o ) and gets moved around a great deal.

Sorry - not fried one yet - must try harder...
Sitting on top of the anti-static bag is a Bad Idea. Said bag is conductive (Duh!).

Re: RP4 without ESD protection shipped

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:13 pm
by Andyroo
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:03 pm
...
Sitting on top of the anti-static bag is a Bad Idea. Said bag is conductive (Duh!).
Hence the paper :lol: but shows how tough these boards are...