echmain
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:26 pm

nodered update & 240+ new packages?

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:40 am

When doing an apt update/upgrade there was 1 update to nodered which led to 240+ new packages installed.

I just wanted to be sure that's correct. Haven't seen that before.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5854
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: nodered update & 240+ new packages?

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:21 pm

Yes, I believe instead of bundling nodejs modules within the nodered package or installing them through NPM, it does the right thing and pulls them in through apt.

Heater
Posts: 13066
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: nodered update & 240+ new packages?

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:00 pm

Which I believe is totally the wrong thing.

It would be much better not have node and node modules installed by the operating system package manager. Unless of course there is someith in the OS itself.

Using node's own package manager, npm, means modules don't need to be globally. Do not need root privs to install. Applications can install whatever versions of module they like. Users are not constantly stuck with out of date node and node modules.

I always thought the same for Python and PIP.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5854
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: nodered update & 240+ new packages?

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:36 pm

Wouldn't you agree that if you're distributing a package as a deb, you shouldn't be mixing in different package managers? The number of times I've seen people try to sneak curl | bash into postinst scripts...

Apt and dpkg have had a lot of time to evolve to handle lots of edge cases, handle conffiles and purge packages properly. There are QC tools like lintian and piupart, which can point out if you're doing something horribly wrong. Pip and npm are a bit of a free for all where anything goes.

NPM and PIP have their place, but not as a way to install dependencies for Debian packages. I deleted a long paragraph going into why, since I'm hoping that's not a point we disagree on. If you're using NPM, use NPM, if you're using PIP, use PIP.

Heater
Posts: 13066
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: nodered update & 240+ new packages?

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:55 pm

ShiftPlusOne,
Wouldn't you agree that if you're distributing a package as a deb, you shouldn't be mixing in different package managers?
Yes.

But I never install node.js from a deb.

Don't get my wrong, I have no issues with apt or dpkg. They have done a fine job of delivering and updating a stable operating system for me for over two decades.

I do get frustrated that a lot of user space things are are pretty old by the time I get them in a deb. For cases like user space applications I would often prefer that they were not a Debian package.

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